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Made in us
Cog in the Machine





Simple question.
Ive bought Belisarius Cawl back in 7th and since then played Mars faction admech. Now that 8th has came out I'm identifying my units as Stygies VIII like they are painted.
My question is do I keep Belisarius as himself or break him up into two tech-priests?
I haven't looked at the points comparison but I don't think its too terribly different.
   
Made in gb
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend





I can't really see any benefit to using Cawl outside of Mars AM army.

Please note, for those of you who play Chaos Daemons as a faction the term "Daemon" is potentially offensive. Instead, please play codex "Chaos: Mortally Challenged". Thank you. 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

He's only gonna buff Mars units, so if you run him, you should at least have some mars units to hang out with him.

 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine





I'm fine without the buff. I'm wondering if his stats and weapon options are better than two tech priests?

My guess is yeah the two would be better than one however they would be more points and 1 more power level together. Which I guess is ok considering the points changes in the new codex.

Man I bought him and really liked him in 7th, oh well time for conversion.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




He's still good, and most people are running him in his own spearhead detachment with kastalens and onagers regardless of what their main forge world detachment is. So it wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of the model myself.
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine





I see. While that makes sense an is a good idea I also usually ran with a detachment of space Marines. So it's about a 70/30 split of factions.
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

I would keep him and play him in a mars detachment. We've only got one single character, no point getting rid of him. Playing him for his raw stats though, not getting an aura, I certainly wouldn't do. His aura and his mars doctrine shenanigans is why you run him. His melee being decent is an afterthought.

 
   
Made in us
Cog in the Machine





You make a good point. So you're telling me I could have a detachment of Mars for canticles shenanigans, Stygies for haha you can't hit me, and Lucius to teleport in a big smashy unit? All in the same army.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Austinman42 wrote:
You make a good point. So you're telling me I could have a detachment of Mars for canticles shenanigans, Stygies for haha you can't hit me, and Lucius to teleport in a big smashy unit? All in the same army.



This is exactly what my opening army is, and the answer is yes, yes you can do just that.

<Mars> - Run cawl, add onagers and kastellan. When picking Canticles, Roll the first dice, and it will affect your entire army (cawl can modifiy it). Then roll a second just for the <MARS> detachment (cawl can also modify it).

<Stygies> here's where you stick your dragoons and units that want to be mobile, but won't be near cawl to take advantage of his reroll buff (Ironstriders, Goons, Etc)

<Lucius> and here's where you put anyone who deepstrikes (they'll be 9" away, so can't use the stygies buff), as well as any models who are going to be mixing it up in melee as counterchargers, or meleebros you plan on deepstriking (like priests, rusts, Fisto-roboto)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/18 19:44:04


 
   
Made in se
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Austinman42 wrote:
You make a good point. So you're telling me I could have a detachment of Mars for canticles shenanigans, Stygies for haha you can't hit me, and Lucius to teleport in a big smashy unit? All in the same army.


As long as each is a different and valid detachment, yes. You should probably have some way to mark what detachment they belong to aswell so people know which ones are hard to hit and so on. Three forgeworlds is most probably what most of my armies will contain.

 
   
Made in ca
Cog in the Machine





I see. This all seems a bit broken to me. Now I'm stuck between choosing do I want to exploit rules and be a dick or do I want to keep my army fluffy and save myself brain pain by having all these different rules to follow.

My current list as it stands is:
Belisarius
1 Tech-Priest
1 Datasmith
1 Onager with Neutron laser
4 Dakkastellans
2 Dragoons
20 vanguard

1 Space Marine Captain in Grav armor
3 Boltstorm Aggressors
1 Ironclad Dreadnought
1 Vindicator Laser Destroyer
   
Made in se
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

Using your rules isn't being a dick.

 
   
Made in ca
Cog in the Machine





Well you're not wrong. Ive just had some bad experiences of people min/maxing lists and being "that guy".

But....to the army lists page I goooo!!!! Awayyyyyy
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Using 3 forge worlds is less that guy than running ad mech and space marines together in my opinion. Your at least using just one faction, instead of imperial soup.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest





 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.


Can't quote this hard enough.



“Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to creep through the shadows, or to quietly slip on my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Imperial Fist, Space Marine, Emperor’s Champion. Let my enemies cower at my advance and tremble at the sight of me.”
-Rogal Dorn
 
   
Made in fi
Freaky Flayed One





 Corrode wrote:
 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.


Can't quote this hard enough.


Some people are stiff about things like this and some are limp.
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Just need to point out that for the Mars dogma of giving you 2 canticles rather than 1... only the first canticle applies to all your admech - the second applies only to Mars units.

I *think* this also means you need to roll them one at a time rather than roll 2 dice and decide what the best combo is.

Maybe use 2 different colour dice. Is that legit?

Hm.

TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Silentz wrote:
Just need to point out that for the Mars dogma of giving you 2 canticles rather than 1... only the first canticle applies to all your admech - the second applies only to Mars units.

I *think* this also means you need to roll them one at a time rather than roll 2 dice and decide what the best combo is.

Maybe use 2 different colour dice. Is that legit?

Hm.


Yes, you'd have to roll them separately to know which is "for everyone" and different coloured dice would absolutely be fine so long as you make sure your opponent understands which dice is which before the roll. It might be clearer to just go "I'm now going to roll for my army wide canticle." tell your opponent what it does and then say "and I will now roll my Mars-specific extra canticle."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/21 14:24:40


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.


Loved it and exalted it so hard it became a signature.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





Yes, but having the informtion of the 2nd roll at the same time as the 1st roll would give you an information advantage.

E.g. I roll a 5 for all and a 3 for mars together. I give both a +1 and have shroudspalm for mars and benediction for all. Good job.

Alternative: I roll a 5. Now I need to decide whether to give this the +1 or the -1 without knowing what the next roll will bring...

TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Silentz wrote:
Yes, but having the informtion of the 2nd roll at the same time as the 1st roll would give you an information advantage.

E.g. I roll a 5 for all and a 3 for mars together. I give both a +1 and have shroudspalm for mars and benediction for all. Good job.

Alternative: I roll a 5. Now I need to decide whether to give this the +1 or the -1 without knowing what the next roll will bring...


You're absolutely right, and I didn't consider that. This only really matters when you have Cawl (as otherwise you can't change it anyway...) I don't have my codex yet, so I don't know the exact wording. I guess we'll see soon if there is a clear cut way to do it or not.

 
   
Made in ca
Cog in the Machine





Wow, you guys make excellent points.
I think I'm just going to stick with a large Battalion or Brigade detachment of Mars which almost guarantees I hit shroudpsalm and benediction.
I have to say I'm already invested in some space marine stuff so I have to include them (and they've been pulling their weight in past games.)
Depending on how many points are left if any I might take a small outrider of dragoons for ambushing and screening.
   
 
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