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Hulksmash wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well I see the era of simplification and balance is gone.

That was short.

Curious why you say this? The rules are still clear and simple. The content is still incredibly condensed compared to 7th with it's love of random formations everywhere. Balance wise all I'm seeing is units that needed a boost (leman russ) getting it and most stuff staying pretty much the same. Nothing in there is incredibly good and nothing in it affects the current IG lists.

That!
And it is still unclear what will happen to scions and what exactly the nerf to conscripts is.

Yeah, its not like Leman Russes where OP. For now it appears they are gonna nerf the broken stuff and buff and fix (Or try to fix) the weak stuff in the Imperial Guard army. So, basically, what one should expect from balance changes.

Really excited about the leman Russ's buff, notice the rule says your next turn so no double shot first turn though. Also didn't know the vostroyans outraged thier enemies. Whats the fluff for that?

Don't see why Mordian's suck, I love it. Finally get my favorite regiment some love.

So anyone else notice you can hit on 4s with conscripts in overwatch with mordians but still only 5 in the shooting phase.

 Zewrath wrote:
IIRC the average result of d6 with reroll is ~4,47. So a rough average of 9 shots rather than 7 shots. Unless the other doctrines include something Raven Guard-esque bonus, I don't see the point in not taking free buffs to your tanks and artillery.

That's the result of roll 2 take the higher I'm fairly sure. If you reroll every value below a 4, you come out with 4.25. 4.167 if you keep rolls of 3, which many prefer to do.

The big advantage is avoiding those rolls of 1/2 anyways. Which helps even out your damage a lot.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Really excited about the leman Russ's buff, notice the rule says your next turn so no double shot first turn though. Also didn't know the vostroyans outraged thier enemies. Whats the fluff for that?

It's "the following Shooting phase". So it doesn't apply to Overwatch, but you do get it every turn.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Don't see why Mordian's suck, I love it. Finally get my favorite regiment some love.

I think that probably most people are coming at this from the perspective of a meta where (1) CC is not a huge deal and (2) you have throwaway screens to stop it from getting to anything important anyway. It's still almost always going to be better to stop something from charging your big stuff in the first place than to get charged and fire better Overwatch. The major beneficiary is Conscripts, but of course having to have everything be in btb to get the bonus is a pretty big drawback for them, since ordinarily you'd prefer to have them spread out to more efficiently screen your other things.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Really excited about the leman Russ's buff, notice the rule says your next turn so no double shot first turn though.

It says 'following shooting phase', as in the next shooting phase after the current movement phase. Not the next turn

 xttz wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Really excited about the leman Russ's buff, notice the rule says your next turn so no double shot first turn though.

It says 'following shooting phase', as in the next shooting phase after the current movement phase. Not the next turn

That's my interpretation too.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Really excited about the leman Russ's buff, notice the rule says your next turn so no double shot first turn though. Also didn't know the vostroyans outraged thier enemies. Whats the fluff for that?

Nope. It doesn't say in the next turn, it says in the following shooting phase. The shooting phase that follows the movement phase.

It would make no sense whatsoever if standing still in turn 1 meant that you could race forward and fire twice in turn 2.

gendoikari87 wrote:
So anyone else notice you can hit on 4s with conscripts in overwatch with mordians but still only 5 in the shooting phase.

Also nope - or at least not by what we've seen so far. Defensive gunners is a stratagem that works on vehicles. Conscripts aren't vehicles and do not have gunners - though I'm sure that in 10,000 years of the imperium somebody has tried having a conscript carry a ratling sniper around.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well I see the era of simplification and balance is gone.

That was short.

Curious why you say this? The rules are still clear and simple. The content is still incredibly condensed compared to 7th with it's love of random formations everywhere. Balance wise all I'm seeing is units that needed a boost (leman russ) getting it and most stuff staying pretty much the same. Nothing in there is incredibly good and nothing in it affects the current IG lists.

First off there will several of them (8?) and these advantages are free. The only disadvantage is you don't take some other advantage.

Second off these advantages have little to do with Catachans, no stealth, no infiltrate, just +1 strength and better weapons with random hits. Multiply by a half dozen or more doctrines and try to remember the details.

Third it's tied to modelling rather than a generic 'Death World' infantry or whatever. So we either have to be rude sticklers (you can't use that because your army is not 100% Catachan models) or it becomes meaningless (this is my Praetorian army that counts as Catachans).

Obviously we already saw this with the SM chapter rules and the Adeptus Mech forge world rules so as each faction gets their Craftworld/Hive Fleet/Clan/whatever rules the game is quickly going to become as full of nonsense as 7th.

Looking forward to the great 8th edition reboot, simplification.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Interestingly the Mordian article has a picture of a Lascannon they don't make anymore.

Don't forget making a point of stating how good Mordian plasma gunners that have never existed outside of conversions will be.

Ahh my mistake * reaches for coffee pot . I hope people don't get bent out of shape about these regimental rules, they are benifiting an army that already has good things going for it. My only worry is if GW restrict unit options depending upon which regiment you choose for your battle forged detachments.

But... that's what most people wanted. And still want. I know some hate CT, but the majority of people are happy about them. It's probably gotten more praise than anything else this edition. People want that level of army customization.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well I see the era of simplification and balance is gone.

That was short.

Curious why you say this? The rules are still clear and simple. The content is still incredibly condensed compared to 7th with it's love of random formations everywhere. Balance wise all I'm seeing is units that needed a boost (leman russ) getting it and most stuff staying pretty much the same. Nothing in there is incredibly good and nothing in it affects the current IG lists.

First off there will several of them (8?) and these advantages are free. The only disadvantage is you don't take some other advantage.

Second off these advantages have little to do with Catachans, no stealth, no infiltrate, just +1 strength and better weapons with random hits. Multiply by a half dozen or more doctrines and try to remember the details.

Third it's tied to modelling rather than a generic 'Death World' infantry or whatever. So we either have to be rude sticklers (you can't use that because your army is not 100% Catachan models) or it becomes meaningless (this is my Praetorian army that counts as Catachans).

Obviously we already saw this with the SM chapter rules and the Adeptus Mech forge world rules so as each faction gets their Craftworld/Hive Fleet/Clan/whatever rules the game is quickly going to become as full of nonsense as 7th.

Looking forward to the great 8th edition reboot, simplification.

Having one army-wide special rule to remember isn't even close to the complete mess that was 7th. Everything else (stratagems and for AM, orders) is tied to an expendable resource.

alphaecho wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Interestingly the Mordian article has a picture of a Lascannon they don't make anymore.

Don't forget making a point of stating how good Mordian plasma gunners that have never existed outside of conversions will be.

.

Why gw won't just make a basic weapons spruce for sale? Now with their advocation of conversions happening is a great time to introduce something like that I.e Militarum sized bolters, plasma guns, meltaguns, etc

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

First off there will several of them (8?) and these advantages are free. The only disadvantage is you don't take some other advantage.

And? Every army is getting this treatment.

Second off these advantages have little to do with Catachans, no stealth, no infiltrate, just +1 strength and better weapons with random hits. Multiply by a half dozen or more doctrines and try to remember the details.

Catachan are not a 100% stealth army like Raven Guard. We have no idea if they'll have stratagems for infiltrate or other such things. Maybe we should just....wait?

 Mymearan wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Well I see the era of simplification and balance is gone.

That was short.

Curious why you say this? The rules are still clear and simple. The content is still incredibly condensed compared to 7th with it's love of random formations everywhere. Balance wise all I'm seeing is units that needed a boost (leman russ) getting it and most stuff staying pretty much the same. Nothing in there is incredibly good and nothing in it affects the current IG lists.

First off there will several of them (8?) and these advantages are free. The only disadvantage is you don't take some other advantage.

Second off these advantages have little to do with Catachans, no stealth, no infiltrate, just +1 strength and better weapons with random hits. Multiply by a half dozen or more doctrines and try to remember the details.

Third it's tied to modelling rather than a generic 'Death World' infantry or whatever. So we either have to be rude sticklers (you can't use that because your army is not 100% Catachan models) or it becomes meaningless (this is my Praetorian army that counts as Catachans).

Obviously we already saw this with the SM chapter rules and the Adeptus Mech forge world rules so as each faction gets their Craftworld/Hive Fleet/Clan/whatever rules the game is quickly going to become as full of nonsense as 7th.

Looking forward to the great 8th edition reboot, simplification.

Having one army-wide special rule to remember isn't even close to the complete mess that was 7th. Everything else (stratagems and for AM, orders) is tied to an expendable resource.

Indeed. I get that bloat is bad but so far I haven't struggled with the fact that my crimson fists ignore cover. It's not too hard to remember.

Some people are complaining that catachans should be able to infiltrate and/or be camouflaged. I get where that's coming from, but the problem is that, if they had all the bonuses they get in the fluff, they'd be bloody amazing. They'd really need to be a different unit entry, not just the same guys with a slightly different rule. And actually that would be no bad thing - you could even look at whether their vests (if they are even wearing them) really ought to count as flak armour!

 Twoshoes23 wrote:

alphaecho wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Interestingly the Mordian article has a picture of a Lascannon they don't make anymore.

Don't forget making a point of stating how good Mordian plasma gunners that have never existed outside of conversions will be.

.

Why gw won't just make a basic weapons spruce for sale? Now with their advocation of conversions happening is a great time to introduce something like that I.e Militarum sized bolters, plasma guns, meltaguns, etc

I've sliced up some of my Praetorians to change lasguns to plasma.

Plus, I ended up with some recast conversions in a job lot I picked up from eBay where the Grenade Launcher figure had been amended.

SilverAlien wrote:
But... that's what most people wanted. And still want. I know some hate CT, but the majority of people are happy about them. It's probably gotten more praise than anything else this edition. People want that level of army customization.

Chapter Tactics are the sweet spot between cumbersome formation-specific rules and a bland my-army-always-fights-the-same-way approach. It's nice to see different flavours of the same codex around, especially if you tend to fight the same opponents regularly.

I can see a lot of underwhelming units getting some mileage by pairing them with the right armywide tactic, and not just for AM. I'm dying to see what Hive Fleet Tactics bring to the table.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
Interestingly the Mordian article has a picture of a Lascannon they don't make anymore.

Also... I may be wrong, but those models look like they were painted a bit more recently than the webstore Mordians... Maybe theyll rerelease some of the OOP stuff? Itd give them some extra releases without having to design totally new models at least...

 xttz wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
But... that's what most people wanted. And still want. I know some hate CT, but the majority of people are happy about them. It's probably gotten more praise than anything else this edition. People want that level of army customization.

Chapter Tactics are the sweet spot between cumbersome formation-specific rules and a bland my-army-always-fights-the-same-way approach. It's nice to see different flavours of the same codex around, especially if you tend to fight the same opponents regularly.

I can see a lot of underwhelming units getting some mileage by pairing them with the right armywide tactic, and not just for AM. I'm dying to see what Hive Fleet Tactics bring to the table.

Plus they avoid the power gaming potential of mix and match regimental tactics. At worst you mix 2-3 tactics by taking different detachments with different roles. Sweet spot describes it perfectly.

My tanks are now Mordian.

 BrookM wrote:
My tanks are now Mordian.

Wonder what they'll be tomorrow

Anyway, this is fine. It actually fits the fluff of the guard to have an infantry regiment from one planet supported by a tank regiment from somewhere else altogether.

Mandragola wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
My tanks are now Mordian.

Wonder what they'll be tomorrow

Anyway, this is fine. It actually fits the fluff of the guard to have an infantry regiment from one planet supported by a tank regiment from somewhere else altogether.

Tomorrow will be about mortal wound-handing-out vostroyan manticores and basilisks, rather than 4+ executioner overwatch.

 BrookM wrote:
My tanks are now Mordian.

Isnt the Russ buff universal.

Am I missing something?

I tried backtracking in the thread but what's the 'Russ buff' people are referencing?

 Kawauso wrote:
Am I missing something?

I tried backtracking in the thread but what's the 'Russ buff' people are referencing?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/

GWs latest tease

I think that probably most people are coming at this from the perspective of a meta where (1) CC is not a huge deal and (2) you have throwaway screens to stop it from getting to anything important anyway. It's still almost always going to be better to stop something from charging your big stuff in the first place than to get charged and fire better

Pretty much this. I love my Mordians but am a bit underwhelmed at their doctrine. Would have preferred some take on FRFSRF buff to reflect their disciplined fire ranks.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
My tanks are now Mordian.

Isnt the Russ buff universal.

They are but the way he says 'tanks', I suspect he fancies the over watch buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
IIRC the average result of d6 with reroll is ~4,47. So a rough average of 9 shots rather than 7 shots. Unless the other doctrines include something Raven Guard-esque bonus, I don't see the point in not taking free buffs to your tanks and artillery.

That's the result of roll 2 take the higher I'm fairly sure. If you reroll every value below a 4, you come out with 4.25. 4.167 if you keep rolls of 3, which many prefer to do.

The big advantage is avoiding those rolls of 1/2 anyways. Which helps even out your damage a lot.

Ah, fair enough, I misread that google search then. Still.. free buffs, lol. Especially good basilisk that gets to roll 2d6 + 1 reroll and the pick the highest result. Sounds quite reliable to me.