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It seems to me due to the way morale is done a person would be better off doing 2 5 man squads of troops over 1 10 man squad. Assuming Ld8 if you lose 4 men from a squad you have about an 11% chance of the squad breaking. For the 5 man squad that means the last guy is removed. In a 10 man squad you could lose 2 models. If you lose 5 men from your 10 man squad you have a 25% chance of losing extra models (up to 3 more). I just don't see how to justify the risk of losing the extra models.

You are limited to the same weapon load out if you take 2 5s or 1 10. You get the same number of wounds (maybe even 1 more for the 2 5s). The point difference out of a 2000 point army is negligible.

Is there some advantage that I'm not considering?

Stratagems work better in larger units and it is easier to get ine large unit in range of a character's aura than two small units. So their technically are advantages. But those are fairly minor and unimportant advantages, at least for basic tactical squads.

So yeah, running them at 5 is the better choice in almost every situation.

What are the advantages?

Buffs and stratagems more easily affect larger squads.

You have less units over-all so you can potentially finish deployment first and therefore get +1 to your roll for going first (I know its still not completely official but its coming in CA)

Larger amounts of over-watch fire when being charged.

Less kill points.

I think it's important to understand, as well, that different units are better at min or max size. Tac squads are usually better at a lower amount of models due to the way heavy weapons are distributed, morale losses, and the extra units to fulfill detachments.

However, you get some situations as mentioned above with stratagems, overwatch, and kill points. Some other stratagems could potentially be Raven Guard's infiltration stratagem where you are spending 1 CP to deploy a 5 man unit or 1 CP to deploy a 10 man unit. There are situations but it all depends on the reason you are grabbing the tact squad. If you are putting them in for no real reason then you may be able to find a better use for the points in another unit.

My Ultramarines are 10 man squads to take advantage of their "fall back and shoot" rule.

If a 5 man squad gets whacked by Terminators and I lose 3, I've only got 2 guys who can fall back and shoot compared to the 7 I get from a 10 man squad.

As others have mentioned, buffs and auras also work better with larger squads. Leadership/Morale is a non issue with Ultramarines.

Only time to do it is with Sterngaurd for the Strategem. Otherwise it's pointless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

verticalgain wrote:
My Ultramarines are 10 man squads to take advantage of their "fall back and shoot" rule.

If a 5 man squad gets whacked by Terminators and I lose 3, I've only got 2 guys who can fall back and shoot compared to the 7 I get from a 10 man squad.

As others have mentioned, buffs and auras also work better with larger squads. Leadership/Morale is a non issue with Ultramarines.

That is only 2 Terminators that were caught in that combat though, and therefore the other 5 are doing something else and shooting at no penalty. Your example honestly makes no sense.

If you're worried about survivability, use Intercessors, since a squad of 5 has just as many wounds as a 10 man squad.

If you don't have that many HQ's, then stringing along a squad of 10 tacs might be good to benefit from buffing auras.

Otherwise, it's just better to take MSUs with Tacs, since you can have them all over the board, have more special weapons overall (combi + special), contest more objectives, and force your opponent to split their fire.

Only other thing I can think of is if you really wanted to bring a heavy weapon and combat-squad them, but in that case why not just take Devastators and Hellblasters?

The five man squads are more efficient, but I brought ten man squads to a tournament and found them useful. It can be handy to be able to stay as a ten man squad in a kill points mission but then break into five man squads for objective control missions. Bringing a Chaplain along eases the morale issue.

Now that you choose who dies, the 10 man squad has more bodies that need to be chewed through before the heavy/special/sarge goes down.

I agree that for the most part you are better with 2x5 squads.


I still field full 10s though. But I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine. If I can’t be bothered to follow the dictates of the Codex, who will? Need to set a good example. It might be a fluff reason, but that’s half the reason I’m here. Old habits is another reason. I’ve been fielding 10 man squads since the dawn of time, why stop now, just because the rules changed? Again, not a good reason, but one that keeps them in my lists.

 Nevelon wrote:
Now that you choose who dies, the 10 man squad has more bodies that need to be chewed through before the heavy/special/sarge goes down.

I agree that for the most part you are better with 2x5 squads.


I still field full 10s though. But I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine. If I can’t be bothered to follow the dictates of the Codex, who will? Need to set a good example. It might be a fluff reason, but that’s half the reason I’m here. Old habits is another reason. I’ve been fielding 10 man squads since the dawn of time, why stop now, just because the rules changed? Again, not a good reason, but one that keeps them in my lists.

I'm totally with you on all points! For some reason part of me still thinks its 1997 and I have to take ten man squads! It feels right, and every now and then it works out.

Thanks for all your feedback. Specifically I'll be playing Grey Knights and I wanted a general overview of an army I'll be building. Does using Grey Knights vs normal marines make any difference to any of you?

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thanks for all your feedback. Specifically I'll be playing Grey Knights and I wanted a general overview of an army I'll be building. Does using Grey Knights vs normal marines make any difference to any of you?

Thats significantly different than Tacticals, etc. Imo. But I'm unfamiliar with their rules and options these days.

If you’re playing GK, the only thing you’re going to take as troops are GK Strike Squads. MSU, with falchions and maybe a hammer or psilincer. Going big is a waste, as small squads maximize your mini-smites

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thanks for all your feedback. Specifically I'll be playing Grey Knights and I wanted a general overview of an army I'll be building. Does using Grey Knights vs normal marines make any difference to any of you?

Walks away from the table as he has nothing to offer...

Short answer, I wouldn't.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Thanks for all your feedback. Specifically I'll be playing Grey Knights and I wanted a general overview of an army I'll be building. Does using Grey Knights vs normal marines make any difference to any of you?

One good reason: Psybolt Ammo. If you want to use the Psybolt Ammo strategem, it can be worth it to take ten-man squads, since it only effects one squad and has the same cost regardless of squad size. 40 Heavy Bolter shots coming from one unit can be pretty danged effective.

But otherwise, don't do it.

Not sure about GKs, but for regular Tacticals, I would say 2x 5 is the way to go.
You get a 4th weapon overall (because the second Sgt) and you can take 2 of the same special or heavy weapon, rather than be restricted to 1 of each.

For example: 2x 5 could have 1 Plasma + Combi-plasma in each unit for a total of 4 total Plasmas (2 special, 2 combi-).
This would not be possible for 1x 10, in which you are limited to 1 special, 1 heavy & 1 combi- weapon.

But as others have mentioned, the only reasons to have bigger units is for Strategems, less Kill points and less deployment drops (although this can be nullified by just putting as many units in transports)

.