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There are a lot of complaints about "soup lists" dominating tournaments, so would only allowing units in your matched play force to be taken from a single codex(and/or matching index) fix the problems people have with matched play?

This would obviously completely eliminate the soup lists, but would there still be problems with matched play? Do you feel like the codex releases so far are balanced well enough that if you cannot cherry-pick the best units from a few codexes and mix them up that the tournament scene would be better balanced?

Would this be enough that we wouldn't need to see nerfing of specific units to make them less OP, or would the internal balance of the codexes be enough to level the playing field?

You'd solve one problem and introduce another.

Yes, people would stop complaining about Soup lists. People would be restricted to one Codex to bring their cheese and spam. They'd migrate to the cheesiest and spammiest Codexes.

But, people would just find something else to complain about. Whatever the new OP Codex is, whatever the new OP netlist is, whatever the new broken rule is, etc.

There's no real solution, and frankly, GW wants Soup lists to exist. They encourage people to buy models in armies that they wouldn't otherwise purchase if they were forced to stick with one Codex.

This is how it goes every edition. People are going to complain no matter what.

Also you are eliminating several builds completely. Ynnari are comprised of Harlequins, Dark Eldar, and Eldar. Mixed with the Ynnari HQs, you've got technically four different sources for units. They are in the same Index now, but once they get codices they will not.

Then you have Genestealer Cult which allows you to take an IG detachment. They are also beneficial to ally up with standard Tyranids.

Soups are here and there is no fixing. The biggest issue is that Imperial is so much more broad than other options. IG needs to be its own portion of Imperium and power armor armies need to be another. Imperium really needs to just be broken up and not all part of the same.

No. Soup is not a problem.

Ideally yes, this would solve a lot of problems as a lot of factions were originally designed with a specific drawback in mind for people to exploit (Marines lacking cheap chaff, Tau lacking Melee, Dark Eldar lacking armor and toughness, etc).

Realistically, no, it would take another 8th-style overhaul to make that work. This is because ever since allies was introduced in 6th, a lot of armies had their stuff tweaked to compensate for allies. Harlequins basically cannot function as anything but allies while Grey Knights basically needs them to fill out holes in their line. Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines basically only split in name during 4th-5th edition and essentially became one army again the moment the allies rules were introduced.

It would be nice if everyone got their spoons back into their own bowls, but it looks like that's something that's never gonna happen with 40k again.

What is wrong with "Soup"?

It's actually pretty cool to be able to collect a wide variety of miniatures. You can make truly unique lists when you are only limited by the lore and you can combine different elements of the Imperium in one list.

For the record: no, I'm not talking about including Guilliman in every list. I don't even own his model and probably never will.

Hoodwink wrote:

Soups are here and there is no fixing. The biggest issue is that Imperial is so much more broad than other options. IG needs to be its own portion of Imperium and power armor armies need to be another. Imperium really needs to just be broken up and not all part of the same.

That would make no sense in terms of fluff. Space Marines and Imperial Guard join forces all the time. Besides, mixing IG and Marines is not really that powerful. IG benefit more from Assassins and other more esoteric elements of the Imperial arsenal.

I like soups and allies. They should have restrictions of course and mono-faction armies should be more powerfull.
But is very cool to have your marines with Imperial Guard, or having mixed armies like SoS+Custodes+Tempestus, etc...

To pile on Hoodwink's comment, not only would you render Ynnari competitively unplayable because they require models from other factions, but you'd also leave Harlequins in a bind, because while they actually have HQs now, unlike, 7th, there's still more or less only one list your can play with them at competitive points levels, if you want any real variety, and not to just spam the same units (since a full Masque struggles to even hit 2000 points)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm a firm believer in competitions not trying to pick and choose which rules to follow. The current faction rules were designed the way they are to allow certain types of interplay and reflect certain elements of fluff. The way to fix the game is by balancing out points and unit viability, not by banning alliances that should be able to exist between factions.

 Galas wrote:
I like soups and allies. They should have restrictions of course and mono-faction armies should be more powerfull.
But is very cool to have your marines with Imperial Guard, or having mixed armies like SoS+Custodes+Tempestus, etc...

Luckily, mono-faction armies are more powerful. Chapter tactics/etc. ensure that. Sure, you can still get those benefits if you just include your allies in a different Detachment but as far as I know, most tournaments limit the maximum number of detachments to three or so.

Anyway, I would guess that complaints about "Soup" cease after most factions have their Codexes.

I don't think it should be that limited, but I think it should be mono-faction to get the traits/relics. That would, I think, go a long way to limiting soup with crap like Guilliman who works best in a mixed list since he can benefit everything.

I don't think soup by it self is a problem. It is more like symptom of unbalanced units. If the units from the big factions are not balanced among each other it becomes a problem. thats what we see now. There should be a bonus for playing only one codex. Because being able to choose from so many units is an advantage. Necrons, Tau, Orks for example don't have that. GW is facing a big challenge by balancing all the 300+ Imp unit among each other . And as long as they remain unbalanced soup will be big part in the competitive scene.

But i don't think it's as big of a problem in the non competitive games. I wouldn’t want to play a second game against a guy who just brings a list the most powerful units just because he can. And I would just not play against such a list again.

For narrative games it is ok to but Papa smurf Celestine etc. in a list and call it an army. And i want to be able to field IG stuff with GSC stuff and add a bunch of Tyranid units.