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I thought I'd do a poll since we've now had some time to digest 8th

How has 8th affected your special weapons choice for Vehicles and boyz?

I can say based on my experience that Tankbusters are great. Personally, I'd say they're the most reliable tool in the tool box. My lootas tend to drop that "1" when I need them to really perform. And of course we know how Boyz can pump up their number of attacks per boy and wreck stuff. But what about those special weapons?

I started off tooling out everything with big shootas: Boyz, Trukks, Batllewagon, everything, thinking now that Vehicles have toughness I can shoot them and wound on 5 or 6s. My boyz still struggled against Heavy Armor stuff like Land Raider, and Leman Russ. SM Tactical Units and scouts are 2+ armor in terrain. Big Shoota wasn't working the way I'd hoped. So I switched to all rokkits.

The - AP really helps against Space Marines in cover, and heavily armored vehicles. Ive been having more success.

Anyway I'd appreciate and encourage people to drop their thoughts and vote. I'm curious to see other peoples experiences so far.

I'm looking at the Nob + ammo runt combo next so would appreciate any insight in that area too.

I've seen many rockets miss the entire game, big shoots can at least hit every now and again.

But honestly ork shootings nothing to worry about 9/10 times.

hobojebus wrote:
I've seen many rockets miss the entire game, big shoots can at least hit every now and again.

But honestly ork shootings nothing to worry about 9/10 times.

Right now, you are handicapping yourself if you take any shooting weapons at all in an Ork list.

The weapons are all overcosted, you're better off spending the points on boyz/stormboyz/kommandos. Also, the way to-hit modifiers work right now, means that there are some units that even the best ork shooting can't hit (or only hit on a 6+).

Rokkits will likely only hit targets once or twice per game, and so only cause *maybe* one actual wound per game. Big shootas will hit a bit more often, and are probably the best choice orks have right now, but they're still pretty terrible.

Ammo runts do help a little bit, and are pretty much a necessary upgrade. If you run a force of mainly nobs, with rokkits, then you might actually get a decent number of hits in. But you will be paying a fortune in points for it.

hobojebus wrote:
I've seen many rockets miss the entire game, big shoots can at least hit every now and again.

But honestly ork shootings nothing to worry about 9/10 times.

Thanks for responding Hobojebus.

When 8th came out, that was my first impulse: Wow! I can shoot a Big Shooter 3 times and strength 5 can wound a Land Raider on a 5+! Wow!

But when you hit on average 1 time in 3 shots with no AP the Land Raider (or even Marines in cover) still get their 2+ save. The Rokkit is -2 AP, so the 2+ becomes a 4+, and does 3 damage if it gets through.

The CC kills infantry, and my army doesn't seem to struggle as bad against Heavy armor infantry and vehicles.

Well i face orks quite often with my wolves and me and my friend have been testing what works and what doesn't.

trukk boys for example dont there's too few boys to get through power armour, 30 man blobs hurt a lot.

Bikers are just outright bad for their points sadly.

Big guns were hard to kill but did very little in return.

Meganobz were actually quite effective when he tried them.

dreads were just dire.

All stuff i hope the dex fixes.

I've actually replaced the rokkit on one of my deffkoptas for a KMB. The cost points for the TL rokkit is insane, the KMB is a preferable choice even with Gets Hot! always on.

Boyz before toyz as for now.

The correct answer is Neither. I used to field every vehicle with a Rokkit that could take one, and they were almost useful. I used to field Deff Koptas with TL Rokkitz, they were almost worth taking, I used to field Tankbustas in my mech lists because why not take a bunch of Anti-tank rokkitz on a specialized mob? Now I don't take those at all.

Why? Simple. 12pts for a 1 shot weapon that will miss 2/3rds of the time, and if you have a - to hit modifier I should just chuck the model in the kill pile before the game starts because it won't be useful at all.

Big Shootas, not as horrifically over priced as Rokkitz now but still utter crap. BS5+ with 3 S5 NO AP shots for 6pts? A Space Marine can take a Hurricane bolter for LESS. 6/12 shots at BS3+ , yeah you lose 12inches of range but you gain 50% Accuracy and twice to four times the shot output.

IF you take a rokkitz or Big Shootas you are actually hurting your chances of winning, instead of 3 rokkitz in 3 30 man blobz of boyz, take zero and instead use those 9 rokkitz to buy 18more Boyz.

You want to shoot? Bring Dakkajets and Mek Gunz (KMK).

If you're desperate, jump squads of tankbustas for a suicide shot/charge. Don't waste the points on vehicles or 'eavy weapons on boyz. 5+ is just not good enough to shoot.

I voted other.
orks are gonna be a one trick pony until gw takes them seriously enough to return their subfaction specialities their specific potentials and to balance their dakka against supershooty armies. There is no reason that we shouldn't be able to collect a fun ork army that uses guns with all the orky flavor. All that stops it are the big brains at gw and their tournament deckbuilding cronies' lack of appreciation for the deep history of ork armies and their sub factions. big shootas should be assault four short range minus one ap IMO. Rokkits should be assault two ap minus two damage d three IMO.

I agree with the above. Gw have stomped all over orks for too long! They don't even understand their own lore at this point! They push for hordes but then make it where it's too expensive to bring them! They talk about orks having tecknolgy that not even humans can understand (creating pure energy and utilise the warp) but then make it worse than a heavy bolter! They give orks the freaking word dakka but then decide shooting orks should be overpriced and not even fire that many shots!? But it's okay because haha orks are random and dumb! But they're not as your own lore states! Warbosses use tactics! Some have outsmarted the galaxy! And as for random... random is lkay but when you're more likely to get a negative effect of killing yourself than any benefits then that's not fun! That's just playing a game where the odds are stacked against you and they have been for many years now for ork players. I've watched games where they're supposed to have the smartest tactical experts on the feild fighting the orks but the entire army doesn't move a single model and just stays still while orks have had to work their ass off doing the smartest tactics a player can pull off in this game! And yet the orks still lost! It's nit fun for both parties.

Thanks everyone for responding to my poll.

I'm glad I did it, because I'm a little surprised by the "other" result. I added it as a last minute choice and it took about 20% of the votes! I assume people interpreted other as "no special weapon at all" based on the comments.

When I started building lists for 8th I felt that the rokkit launchas are a little overpriced, at the cost of two boyz, so equipped big shootas instead. Even though a big shoota costs same as a boy, I felt that the ranged st 5 attacks each round justified the cost. In my meta, the list struggled against heavy armor (Land Raiders and MEQ in terrain), so I decided to try all Rokkits. The all Rokkit lists (including Tankbustas) has been successful against the heavy armored vehicles, but now I don't have enough boots on the ground to maintain assaults.

Thanks to the poll I'm going to try no special weapons with 1/2 the troops' nobs using power klaw the other big choppas.

Rokkits are expensive but at least offer some firepower to take down vehicles, multiple wound stuff (in cover), flyers and T8.
I take always 20+ in my lists, some of them tankbustas, some on other platforms than boys.
Could field another mob of boys for the points but i actually kill a lot of stuff with them. For me they do the job that was once the powerclaws.
And all that horde lists have a hard time vs T8. Even a full mob of boys will just do 1-2 wounds an a LR, none on that nasty dakka flyer and with proper terrain they won`t reach all enemy units that easy.

I play shooty orks and while having a hard time against very competitive tournament lists i actually fare well with dakka against my best buddy and most of the games in my local club.
Rokkits match my army lists and way of playing but i admit orkshooting overall feels a bit poor for the moment and rokkits itself won`t do well in all kind of lists.
At least in boy squads. Even a horde can take some rokkits on buggies, koptas, etc. and keep advancing all the boys.

Don`t see any use in big shootas for now because we have enough stuff for infantry and they won`t do much vs vehicles / 2+ saves / MEQ in cover.
Maybe on vehicles that want to stay more than 24" away from the enemy.
Would always take one rokkit for two big shootas. Kill one Terminator or 3 wounds of a raider and it`s already worth it`s points.
Pointwise they proved very effective for me.
And it`s priceless to see an opponents face after my orks gunned down that raven in my first turn + killed other stuff. Orks don`t shoot bad if you don`t believe it.


Btw lootas are still fine if they get some kind of protection.

The all Rokkit lists (including Tankbustas) has been successful against the heavy armored vehicles, but now I don't have enough boots on the ground to maintain assaults.

With that i struggle as well.
At the moment i get 2 x 30 boys at 1850 points and it`s often not enough.
If the game get`s to the point where everything dies fast and the table gets cleared on both sides i really could use one more mob at least.
But that 200 points really cut down my shooting and if you go shooty you need a lot to actually hit enough with 5+ to do some damage.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Rokkits are expensive but at least offer some firepower to take down vehicles, multiple wound stuff (in cover), flyers and T8.
I take always 20+ in my lists, some of them tankbustas, some on other platforms than boys.
Could field another mob of boys for the points but i actually kill a lot of stuff with them. For me they do the job that was once the powerclaws.
And all that horde lists have a hard time vs T8. Even a full mob of boys will just do 1-2 wounds an a LR, none on that nasty dakka flyer and with proper terrain they won`t reach all enemy units that easy.

I play shooty orks and while having a hard time against very competitive tournament lists i actually fare well with dakka against my best buddy and most of the games in my local club.
Rokkits match my army lists and way of playing but i admit orkshooting overall feels a bit poor for the moment and rokkits itself won`t do well in all kind of lists.
At least in boy squads. Even a horde can take some rokkits on buggies, koptas, etc. and keep advancing all the boys.

Don`t see any use in big shootas for now because we have enough stuff for infantry and they won`t do much vs vehicles / 2+ saves / MEQ in cover.
Maybe on vehicles that want to stay more than 24" away from the enemy.
Would always take one rokkit for two big shootas. Kill one Terminator or 3 wounds of a raider and it`s already worth it`s points.
Pointwise they proved very effective for me.
And it`s priceless to see an opponents face after my orks gunned down that raven in my first turn + killed other stuff. Orks don`t shoot bad if you don`t believe it.


Btw lootas are still fine if they get some kind of protection.

Yeh I keep wanting to run as many rokkits as I can, simply because they're the most Orky choice... but you run 24 rokkits, and there's a good chance you'll only hit with about 4 of them, and then wound with like 2 or 3... so sure, you might get 9 damage on a vehicle in a turn, but thats out of 24 shots, so thats like 300 points in just weapons, not counting the models that have to carry them. I don't know what the equivalent in other armies is, but that seems pretty awful even for orks.

(This improves with tankbustas vs vehicles, because of their re-rolls, which does help things. Pretty much the only time a rokkit isn't totally awful)

 Grotrebel wrote:
Rokkits are expensive but at least offer some firepower to take down vehicles, multiple wound stuff (in cover), flyers and T8.
I take always 20+ in my lists, some of them tankbustas, some on other platforms than boys.
Could field another mob of boys for the points but i actually kill a lot of stuff with them. For me they do the job that was once the powerclaws.
And all that horde lists have a hard time vs T8. Even a full mob of boys will just do 1-2 wounds an a LR, none on that nasty dakka flyer and with proper terrain they won`t reach all enemy units that easy.

I play shooty orks and while having a hard time against very competitive tournament lists i actually fare well with dakka against my best buddy and most of the games in my local club.
Rokkits match my army lists and way of playing but i admit orkshooting overall feels a bit poor for the moment and rokkits itself won`t do well in all kind of lists.
At least in boy squads. Even a horde can take some rokkits on buggies, koptas, etc. and keep advancing all the boys.

Don`t see any use in big shootas for now because we have enough stuff for infantry and they won`t do much vs vehicles / 2+ saves / MEQ in cover.
Maybe on vehicles that want to stay more than 24" away from the enemy.
Would always take one rokkit for two big shootas. Kill one Terminator or 3 wounds of a raider and it`s already worth it`s points.
Pointwise they proved very effective for me.
And it`s priceless to see an opponents face after my orks gunned down that raven in my first turn + killed other stuff. Orks don`t shoot bad if you don`t believe it.


Btw lootas are still fine if they get some kind of protection.

The all Rokkit lists (including Tankbustas) has been successful against the heavy armored vehicles, but now I don't have enough boots on the ground to maintain assaults.

With that i struggle as well.
At the moment i get 2 x 30 boys at 1850 points and it`s often not enough.
If the game get`s to the point where everything dies fast and the table gets cleared on both sides i really could use one more mob at least.
But that 200 points really cut down my shooting and if you go shooty you need a lot to actually hit enough with 5+ to do some damage.

This is the conclusion I had come to when I posted the poll. Even though they're expensive, that -2 AP and 3 damage on rokkits pays off against MEQ stuff.

I've always run Speed Freaks, so every unit is in a trukk. I tried using rokkits everywhere: Trukks, trakks, koptas and boyz. I can proudly say my list wrecked 2 Land Raiders in a 1850 pt game, but couldn't maintain the push against multiple units of Tactical squads. I'm going to keep trying to tweak the composition of boyz adding things that boost attacks. like Da Warpath, a banner waver. or even Ghazghkull.

 Phydox wrote:
Thanks everyone for responding to my poll.

I'm glad I did it, because I'm a little surprised by the "other" result. I added it as a last minute choice and it took about 20% of the votes! I assume people interpreted other as "no special weapon at all" based on the comments.

When I started building lists for 8th I felt that the rokkit launchas are a little overpriced, at the cost of two boyz, so equipped big shootas instead. Even though a big shoota costs same as a boy, I felt that the ranged st 5 attacks each round justified the cost. In my meta, the list struggled against heavy armor (Land Raiders and MEQ in terrain), so I decided to try all Rokkits. The all Rokkit lists (including Tankbustas) has been successful against the heavy armored vehicles, but now I don't have enough boots on the ground to maintain assaults.

Thanks to the poll I'm going to try no special weapons with 1/2 the troops' nobs using power klaw the other big choppas.

Let me put it this way. If you run 3 Mobz of 30, each utilizing 3 rokkitz each you are statistically likely to hit 3 times a turn total. NOW, as for wounding...against a Meq that isn't to hard, 2+ (S8 VS T4) but anything else, IE the things you need help with (Vehicles) its a 3+ which means that you aren't wounding 3 times a turn, its actually 2 times a turn. And even then if its a 3+ armor save they still have a 1/3rd chance to save so really your left with 1.33 unsaved shots going through which = 3 damage on average with 6 being uncommon but possible.

SO to inflict that 3 damage on a vehicle you spent 108pts in just weapons. or, another way to put it...18 boyz.

Against T7 and below, you are actually better off fielding just boyz who can attack it and keep it pinnned down (While trying to surround it)

Keep the vehicles as cheap as possible, which means a single big shoota as the only mandatory upgrade, nothing else.

I also don't like boyz with special weapons, keep them naked as well. 3 rokkits means 36 points for a unit that usually hit on 5s if not 6s and they may be out of range quite easily, I'd take some artilley for the same amount of points, kannonz are way more effective points wise but less resilient. They can be decent and sometimes needed objective holders though, while usually you don't want your boyz to stay in the backfield.

The only rokkits that may worth it are the ones equipped on tankbustas, since they can re-roll to hits against vehicles and they can carry bomb squigs which are nice. They work only in armored list though since they absolutely need a transport.

If I'm paying the points for rokkits, I figure I may as well be putting them on Tanky Bs, as they're better at shooting vehicles than regular boyz. All my shoota boyz get big shootas; slugga boyz get nowt – I'd rather have the extra attack in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Having run the maths, against marines, one boy with a big shoota is exactly as efficient per point as two boyz with shootas. So it's a case of whether you want to be able to get some early shots off while you're closing the distance or would rather have the extra body. The big shoota's marginally worse against Guard. Rokkit launchas are the worst of all, per point, against either. If you're doing Power Level (and therefore not worrying about cost efficiency), big shootas come out on top against both guard and marines, but a rokkit boy is better than a shoota against marines (but worse v Guard).

The changes to Area Effect Weapons does not sit well with me.... a random number of potential hits, on a Model that has such a terrible Ballistic Score none the less, is simply too random for my liking.

There are pieces of war-gear in the game that, while poorly worded, would have better represented an explosive weapon like a rocket launcher or a grenade. These pieces of war-gear, in theory, generate multiple Wounds from a single successful Hit. It wouldn't have been all that difficult to have all explosive weapons make a single roll to confirm that something was hit by the explosive, and then a secondary roll to calculate the number of potential Wounds that where generated from the Hit. It still would leave me leaning towards the Big Shoota in this situation, Orks really are hurt by their pathetic Ballistic Scores, but other explosive weapons would at least be getting a second glance.