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Both the Questoris and Dominus chasses are dependent on the opponent not specializing anti-tank. Fortunately, the meta is moving against tanks and more towards infantry as a whole. Furthermore, you shouldn't view these Knights in a vacuum. The playbook for AdMech+Knights has always been to use artillery and assault support to remove threats to the Knight as it gets into melee range, whereupon it makes its points back.
(...)
I actually think this codex gives a really strong argument for Wardens again. Gallant actually often feels like a hammer in search of a nail; while Chainsweep and Thunder Stomp helps, Gallant is still a relatively poor performer against hordes. Thunderstrike Gauntlet got some great improvements that make it worth using over Feet in many circumstances--it's also a much cheaper alternative to Thermal Cannon.
(...)
So how exactly would you try to combine AdMech with the new knights?
While I agree with most of your assement, I´m not quite sure about the Warden... Do you think it is really worth paying extra points for losing an attack and +1WS and "just" get the gatling in return? Remember your Gauntet will only be hitting on 4+, thats just 2 hits on average...
Also two random questions:
1) Thermal Canon vs RFBC on a Crusader?
I feel like a lot of assessment of these knights are also ignoring the new sacristan forge, which is only 80pts and is a permanent increasing in firepower for any knight stood next to it. 4d6 shots becomes 24, thats immense. even 1d6 becoming 6 is huge.
Octovol wrote: I feel like a lot of assessment of these knights are also ignoring the new sacristan forge, which is only 80pts and is a permanent increasing in firepower for any knight stood next to it. 4d6 shots becomes 24, thats immense. even 1d6 becoming 6 is huge.
Nah, the problem is that it only activates the bonus in the next turn after you don´t shoot in the previous turn...
Octovol wrote: I feel like a lot of assessment of these knights are also ignoring the new sacristan forge, which is only 80pts and is a permanent increasing in firepower for any knight stood next to it. 4d6 shots becomes 24, thats immense. even 1d6 becoming 6 is huge.
Nah, the problem is that it only activates the bonus in the next turn after you don´t shoot in the previous turn...
But if you ran a set up with two Gallants + Valiant would that be a good strategy? Plonk that thing down on the way in and charge your two melee knights whilst moving up your big one. Nobody is doing any shooting first turn anyway and just hope you survive to unleash some chaos?
Octovol wrote: I feel like a lot of assessment of these knights are also ignoring the new sacristan forge, which is only 80pts and is a permanent increasing in firepower for any knight stood next to it. 4d6 shots becomes 24, thats immense. even 1d6 becoming 6 is huge.
The problem is you're giving up your first volley to get a "perfect" volley next turn.
40k is an insanely deadly game, especially on turn 1. Paying for something as huge as a knight and willingly letting it not shoot for one of the most critical turns in the game is insane. Especially when 2 rounds of average shooting is probably still better than one round of max shots. Don't forget that every gun that doesn't fire means more enemies hitting back. You're also painting a massive "shoot me" sign on the knight. Anyone who can run two brain cells together will figure out what you're doing and either cripple or destroy the knight before it can fire.
Ironically, I could see a point to the repair bay, but not for knights. Some tables have awful terrain, buying that piece gives you somewhere to Garrison infantry and protect them from assault by things like dragoons or monsters. It also gives you a raised platform for things like arqubus rangers. It's a very niche use but I've heard of stranger uses, and at 80pts it's a lot cheaper than something like a bastion. Still not a very good option for most lists.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
IF, big IF here, IF a single knight super heavy auxiliary detachment gives strategems and a HOUSEHOLD for HOUSEHOLD bonus purposes, then I think taking a solo Valiant or a solo Castellon could actually be good. The solo HAWKSHROUD valiant needs 2CP before the game starts to get it powered up with 4++ and traitor's pyre, but after that it is a suicide bomb running at your opponent. A solo KRAST Castellon with 4++ and cawl's wrath that gets fed the reroll 1 statregems could do the job of the dakkabots.
Pending further clarification on Armigers and the SHD command points, I'm wondering if they would be a good replacement for Dunecrawlers (Helverin) or Dragoons (Warglaive). Has anyone crunched the numbers on the damage output of the Armiger Autocannons compared to Neutron Lasers or Icarus Arrays? (or the Chain Cleaver versus the Taser Lance?)
To outweigh the loss of canticles and Cawl re-rolls (or shroud protocols), Helverins would have to do enough more damage to justify those losses and their increased cost.
Similarly for Warglaives, does a T7 3+/5++ out-perform a T6 4+/6++ with -1 to hit on a point per wound basis? The new slashing attack on their cleaver should improve damage output against units they'd otherwise struggle with.
Maybe I'll have to sit down with a calculator later and work all of this out.
Sorry I haven't read the codex yet but can't we get a super heavy detachment with 2 helverins and 1 knight ? Sorry if if this is obvious to all!! My intent was to get that specific detachment setup and remove 2 Icarus and 400 from my assault team to get the knight( melee)
Regis Terzieff-Godefroy wrote: Pending further clarification on Armigers and the SHD command points, I'm wondering if they would be a good replacement for Dunecrawlers (Helverin) or Dragoons (Warglaive). Has anyone crunched the numbers on the damage output of the Armiger Autocannons compared to Neutron Lasers or Icarus Arrays? (or the Chain Cleaver versus the Taser Lance?)
To outweigh the loss of canticles and Cawl re-rolls (or shroud protocols), Helverins would have to do enough more damage to justify those losses and their increased cost.
Similarly for Warglaives, does a T7 3+/5++ out-perform a T6 4+/6++ with -1 to hit on a point per wound basis? The new slashing attack on their cleaver should improve damage output against units they'd otherwise struggle with.
Maybe I'll have to sit down with a calculator later and work all of this out.
I did not calculated things, but I tried Warglaives as my primary AT force (with house Krast rules, no stratagem) yesterday vs Death Guard. Onagers went with 2xIcarus instead.
My conclusion so far is: with lowered cost they're at least an option to Neutrager. Neutragers are safer to operate as they are a solid 48" shooting from safety and Cawl rerolling platforms, but when it comes to utility... I'm not that a great fan of them.
I made a lucky mistake and charged head-on into Land Raider carrying termies and LoC, while Plague Marines, psyker and Hauler were strolling around. Overall, two melta Warglaives droped LR to second bracket in firing, while one charging (second failed, and was killed next turn) Armiger forced LR to unpack and run with 2 wounds left. Heroic Armiger died outnumbered unfortunately. Would I be able to do so with Neutragers in a single turn? Possibly I could score the damage, but I'm yet to see two Neutragers rolling 3 hits each and making such a mess. But a distraction that held this tough flank for a turn longer before it reached my main line is totaly out of their capability (hence why this mistake were lucky; if this group reached me a turn sooner, I'd be totaly wrecked - especially that Great Unclean One was joining the party deep striked).
In the end the hold Death Guard was accidentaly lured into won me the game by objectives scored with my infiltration force, and he gave round 4. Even if he destroyed my modest castle I was far too far in points for him to catch me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/04 21:48:05
Regis Terzieff-Godefroy wrote: Pending further clarification on Armigers and the SHD command points, I'm wondering if they would be a good replacement for Dunecrawlers (Helverin) or Dragoons (Warglaive). Has anyone crunched the numbers on the damage output of the Armiger Autocannons compared to Neutron Lasers or Icarus Arrays? (or the Chain Cleaver versus the Taser Lance?)
To outweigh the loss of canticles and Cawl re-rolls (or shroud protocols), Helverins would have to do enough more damage to justify those losses and their increased cost.
Similarly for Warglaives, does a T7 3+/5++ out-perform a T6 4+/6++ with -1 to hit on a point per wound basis? The new slashing attack on their cleaver should improve damage output against units they'd otherwise struggle with.
Maybe I'll have to sit down with a calculator later and work all of this out.
I did not calculated things, but I tried Warglaives as my primary AT force (with house Krast rules, no stratagem) yesterday vs Death Guard. Onagers went with 2xIcarus instead.
My conclusion so far is: with lowered cost they're at least an option to Neutrager. Neutragers are safer to operate as they are a solid 48" shooting from safety and Cawl rerolling platforms, but when it comes to utility... I'm not that a great fan of them.
I made a lucky mistake and charged head-on into Land Raider carrying termies and LoC, while Plague Marines, psyker and Hauler were strolling around. Overall, two melta Warglaives droped LR to second bracket in firing, while one charging (second failed, and was killed next turn) Armiger forced LR to unpack and run with 2 wounds left. Heroic Armiger died outnumbered unfortunately. Would I be able to do so with Neutragers in a single turn? Possibly I could score the damage, but I'm yet to see two Neutragers rolling 3 hits each and making such a mess. But a distraction that held this tough flank for a turn longer before it reached my main line is totaly out of their capability (hence why this mistake were lucky; if this group reached me a turn sooner, I'd be totaly wrecked - especially that Great Unclean One was joining the party deep striked).
In the end the hold Death Guard was accidentaly lured into won me the game by objectives scored with my infiltration force, and he gave round 4. Even if he destroyed my modest castle I was far too far in points for him to catch me.
Yoda79 wrote: Sorry I haven't read the codex yet but can't we get a super heavy detachment with 2 helverins and 1 knight ? Sorry if if this is obvious to all!! My intent was to get that specific detachment setup and remove 2 Icarus and 400 from my assault team to get the knight( melee)
Pending the rules on super heavy auxiliary detachments granting strategems ... I would say just run the gallant solo and give him 2CP for a WLT and a relic. 354 points gives T8, 4++, KRAST for rerolls and questor mechanicus rules, and then the relic gauntlet so you hit on 2+ rerolling with no penalty.
EDIT: there is also an argument to be made for running the HEADSMENS MARK that gives +1 to all damage versus 10W plus models. That gets really hilarious when you are pumping out 15 2+ rerolling to hit D3+1 damage stomps on a T7 monster that thought he would be safe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/04 23:06:36
So how exactly would you try to combine AdMech with the new knights?
While I agree with most of your assement, I´m not quite sure about the Warden... Do you think it is really worth paying extra points for losing an attack and +1WS and "just" get the gatling in return? Remember your Gauntet will only be hitting on 4+, thats just 2 hits on average...
Also two random questions:
1) Thermal Canon vs RFBC on a Crusader?
2) Warglaives vs Helverins?
I'm actually thinking about how to best incorporate a Knight. They're essentially a really big, really fast tank that also fights. My first instinct is to go with a lone Raven Crusader with Ion Bulwark and Endless Fury. Make him a strong shooting and assault unit. Raven Warden with a Stormspear is a close second.
By the way, I think there was some misinformation. According to a preview of the digital codex, we only lose Command Benefits (that is, CP) for not having three Questoris or better in a Super-heavy Detachment. So unless there is a section in Household Traditions saying otherwise, I think we get both the traditions and stratagems in a Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment.
The Gauntlet is valuable because that new stratagem is easily abused against low strength vehicles, monstrous creatures, and characters. I don't think giving up one WS and attack is the way to look at it. Instead, you're gaining a shooting phase with 12 attacks from one of the best anti-infantry weapons in the game. I mean, the Reaper actually adds very little in comparison to the Gauntlet.
Thermal Cannon for sure. It complements the Avenger very much, since it's also 36" and kills most of the things that Avenger cannot. Plus, you pretty much have to get into CC to break even on points, and most of the RFBC's cost is for the range.
I really hope they don't make the Lance mandatory for stratagems. That just seems like they're going after solo Knights, which makes no sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: UPDATE: After giving it much thought, I think the question boils down to this: Thunderstrike Gauntlet + Stormspear Missile Pod or Thermal Cannon?
Because the two builds I keep arriving at look very similar:
Knight Crusader (440)
Avenger Gatling Cannon, Thermal Cannon, Heavy Stubber
House Raven
WLT: Ion Bulwark / Blessed by the Sacristans
Relic: Endless Fury / Armour of the Sainted Ion
Knight Warden (444)
Avenger Gatling Cannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod
House Raven
WLT: Ion Bulwark / Blessed by the Sacristans
Relic: Endless Fury or Judgement or Paragon Gauntlet / Armour of the Sainted Ion
The mix of shooting, fighting, and durability make these Knights extremely versatile in all situations.
However, I feel myself drawn more and more toward the Warden. The codex gives us so many tools that favor it.
1) Gauntlet complements Feet and gives me access to Death Grip and Devastating Reach. Death Grip is incredibly competitive. I think we're severely underestimating its importance in many matchups. For example, it virtually guarantees that we will kill Slamguinius if he tries to charge us. (Assuming he survives the Gauntlet attacks, if Invocation of Machine Might is on, he has to roll a 6 and you a 1 for him to escape.)
2) Stormspear mostly replaces the functionality of Thermal Cannon while being much more efficient; of course, you can run a Crusader with both, but we're striving for point efficiency here.
3) Compared to a Gallant, it trades a mostly redundant Reaper, 1 WS, and 1A for an Avenger Gatling Cannon that can be upgraded in two ways.
4) Extra customizable with relics if you need more mortal wounds, volume fire, anti-tank, or Death Grippiness.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/06/05 03:19:26
Has anyone considered two Knight Valiant side by side charging up the battlefield? With the strategerm that allows another knight to also help overwatch. Thats two knight valiants worth of overwatch into anything that dares to charge them. I seriously think the list of anything that can survive an overwatch from the combined firepower of two Knight Valiants is very very small.
Just the two confragation cannons alone would contribute 6d6 autohits. And when you are rolling so many overwatches, some of them are gonna turn up 6s. I mean, 8 melta gun overwatch is no joke.
And even if anything survives the overwatch, they then face the 12 hit stomps, and the heroic intervention from the other knight valiant (which means another 12 potential hit stomps). And finally, if they survive all that, the valiants can simply move away the next turn and continue shooting.
And then you face the same devastating overwatch all over again if you want to try and charge them a second time.
Leaving aside the spear hitting on the overwatch (cos if it hits, good luck to whoever charging in). double confrag cannon, and 8 melta guns would mean at least one melta gun hit and 6d6 confrag cannon hits. If you have double shield break cannons (and double overwatch), then thats another 2 hits from something that does 3 damage even if you have to roll sixes on your overwatch.
So, leaving aside the lucky spear hit, you still have at 1 melta gun hit, 2 shieldbreaker cannon hits and 6d6 confrag cannon hits if you use the strategem so that both Valiants get to overwatch the same unfortunate charging enemy.
That works out to (3.5 + 3 +3 + 42) = 51.5 maximum potential wounds from those hits. Of course, need to wound, and then opponent may get a save (may!). Its still a shockingly high number of potential wounds just from overwatch alone.
Even other knights may give pause on facing that fiery mealstorm of overwatch.
The trouble is that the second knight can't do a second overwatch using a strategem in one phase. And the second knight doesn't have the relic for rerolling to wound. And the hawkshroud strategem specifically says IMPERIUM, not knights, so you can just mix in hawkshroud in a soup list just as well. The benefit of the traitor's pyre / overwatch strategem is that the valiant covers everything around him in 18", so you can't cheese your way out of overwatch.
What Wulfey said. Plus there is the inherent inefficiency and inflexibility of Valiants to deal with. I would not ever want to run two. In fact, I would never run a Dominus class and opt only for one Questoris in the mid-400 point range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 07:21:15
I watched the Frontline Gaming Codex review yesterday and the question regarding the support detachment was brought up at the end by a viewer. They also were not quite sure, but I think the consent was, that you get stratagems + traditions in an support detachment.
I can see the strength of the deathgrip and tbh is just so cinematic, grabbing a Demon Prince or something like that and just crushing him xD
But do you really want it on a Warden? It kind of forces you to take the relic Gauntlet imo, otherwise you have to hit on a 4+ to activate the effect of the stratagem...
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW what would you take for the rest of your ~ 1500 points?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/05 07:32:00
Suzuteo wrote: What Wulfey said. Plus there is the inherent inefficiency and inflexibility of Valiants to deal with. I would not ever want to run two. In fact, I would never run a Dominus class and opt only for one Questoris in the mid-400 point range.
I don't get it. What's so inefficient and inflexible about having two Valiants? @_@
There is probably only one truly dangerous melee threat which would warrant that strategem being used. Unless you are facing another IK army, otherwise, how many truly dangerous threats are you going to face in any one charge phase which one single Valiant's overwatch can't already handle? And while it seems expensive, a Valiant is not really that much more substantially expensive than saw a Warden or a Crusader in terms of points.
Great. Raven all the way then. Advance, shoot, charge with Full Tilt. Grip stuff. Reroll all the 1s.
Well, you pick what warlord trait and relic you want at the start of the match. So if you see lots of things you can Grip, you go with Paragon. If you see lots of horde units, go for Endless Fury.
Well, you pick what warlord trait and relic you want at the start of the match. So if you see lots of things you can Grip, you go with Paragon. If you see lots of horde units, go for Endless Fury.
That´s a good point!
What would you take (roughly) for the rest of your points then?
Elite - 323 19x Fulgurite Electro-Priest - Electroleech Stave
Fast Attack - 408 6x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
House Raven Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 461
Lord of War - 461 Knight Warden - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod
Total: 1999 points 13 CP
AdMech deep strikes in and erases threats to the Knight, which charges in the wreak havoc. Meanwhile, the Guard detachment provides a crapton of artillery.
EDIT: Forgot to include the Heavy Flamer on Wardens. Haha.
Iago40k wrote: I am not even sold on the gatling cannon as it is...its 12 shots with no rerolls. What do we want to kill with it?
Well, if you are Raven or Vulker, you do get rerolls. But Avenger kills anything that walks on two legs.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/06/05 09:51:40
Elite - 340 20x Fulgurite Electro-Priest - Electroleech Stave
Fast Attack - 408 6x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
House Raven Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 444
Lord of War - 444 Knight Warden - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod
Total: 1999 points 13 CP
AdMech deep strikes in and erases threats to the Knight, which charges in the wreak havoc. Meanwhile, the Guard detachment provides a crapton of artillery.
Oh, and if you cut a Fulgurite, maybe upgrade the Rangers to Vanguard or take a Meltagun?
.
Seems like a legit list.
Since I haven´t played with E-Priests yet, can someone enlighten me? I mean I can see their offensive potential, but aren´t they a big coin flip, where you depend on going 1st?
Took out a Priest to make room for the Heavy Flamer that I forgot about.
They're not too much of a coin flip because you can move before you charge, but they are rather hit or miss depending on the circumstances. You have to be careful about who is going first. If you are going first, you infiltrate them really close. If not, try to hide them somewhere or keep them close to the artillery as counter-chargers; they eat Slamguinius alive.
Fulgurites basically vomit mortal wounds, so have them charge characters and things with invulnerable saves. Basilisks and Dragoons should be going for vehicles. Your Mortars should pound their infantry. The Idea is to clear threats to your Knight.
Elite - 323 19x Fulgurite Electro-Priest - Electroleech Stave
Fast Attack - 408 6x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
House Raven Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 461
Lord of War - 461 Knight Warden - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Thunderstrike Gauntlet, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod
Total: 1999 points 13 CP
AdMech deep strikes in and erases threats to the Knight, which charges in the wreak havoc. Meanwhile, the Guard detachment provides a crapton of artillery.
EDIT: Forgot to include the Heavy Flamer on Wardens. Haha.
Iago40k wrote: I am not even sold on the gatling cannon as it is...its 12 shots with no rerolls. What do we want to kill with it?
Well, if you are Raven or Vulker, you do get rerolls. But Avenger kills anything that walks on two legs.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Has anyone considered two Knight Valiant side by side charging up the battlefield? With the strategerm that allows another knight to also help overwatch. Thats two knight valiants worth of overwatch into anything that dares to charge them. I seriously think the list of anything that can survive an overwatch from the combined firepower of two Knight Valiants is very very small.
Expensive as hell in an edition of shooty 40k. Plus many armies that are looking to charge can flat out negate overwatch. BA captain with angel's wing. No overwatch. Then comes in some friends. Alternatively throw in sacrificial troops to eat up strategem(assuming it wasn't as many overwatch as you want as support).
Anyway on mechanicus question. From forgebane contents(looking probably at building rangers) what suggestions would be for expanding it to ~600-800 alliance detachment? Not looking for huge force right away but since I have ~250 pts already maybe small force for my Imperium Soup wouldn't be bad idea to give me more things to field(I like to change lists a lot anyway).
Was thinking adding 2 engineers(to give me super cheap bat to work alongside knights), 2 kastellans and 10 electro priests(they appear to have fun ability in h2h and shooting isn't bad. Was thinking Lucius to deep strike them in). Should give me about 800 pts.
Eldenfirefly wrote: Has anyone considered two Knight Valiant side by side charging up the battlefield? With the strategerm that allows another knight to also help overwatch. Thats two knight valiants worth of overwatch into anything that dares to charge them. I seriously think the list of anything that can survive an overwatch from the combined firepower of two Knight Valiants is very very small.
Expensive as hell in an edition of shooty 40k. Plus many armies that are looking to charge can flat out negate overwatch. BA captain with angel's wing. No overwatch. Then comes in some friends. Alternatively throw in sacrificial troops to eat up strategem(assuming it wasn't as many overwatch as you want as support).
Anyway on mechanicus question. From forgebane contents(looking probably at building rangers) what suggestions would be for expanding it to ~600-800 alliance detachment? Not looking for huge force right away but since I have ~250 pts already maybe small force for my Imperium Soup wouldn't be bad idea to give me more things to field(I like to change lists a lot anyway).
Was thinking adding 2 engineers(to give me super cheap bat to work alongside knights), 2 kastellans and 10 electro priests(they appear to have fun ability in h2h and shooting isn't bad. Was thinking Lucius to deep strike them in). Should give me about 800 pts.
One thing to be mindful of is failing your charge. I love Lucius and deepstrike is good fun but your boys look rather silly when they arrive, trip up and then stand there with their thumbs up their asses whilst getting shot to Blighty and back
Ideasweasel wrote: One thing to be mindful of is failing your charge. I love Lucius and deepstrike is good fun but your boys look rather silly when they arrive, trip up and then stand there with their thumbs up their asses whilst getting shot to Blighty and back
True that. Being also an ork player with the da jump I know that all too well. With reroll it's 50-50 so with CP reroll only it's bit less. Orks have it bit better as they have reroll charges AND ability to use CP(and generally pile of CP's to burn since we aren't blessed with strategems yet so 13-14 I usually start with is a bloody lot of rerolls!) so if I roll 2 low dice I can roll 'em both and if I roll 5 I can roll the other for 50-50 shot, I roll 4 as highest I can try for 33% chance(which still beats 9 on 2d6) or of course if there's 6 I can get 66% chance. With AM yes lack of that is a bummer. That's why the IG part would be used to clear dangers and maybe even not rush them on T2 but even keep them for turn 3 when hopefully enemy is softened up a bit. Sort of cheap counter charge/objective grabbing.
Just looking some new units that gives something IG doesn't give. Gunline type of allies aren't what I'm looking for first as that IG does well as well. Copying that seems dull and expensive money wise. Maybe later so I can use more of AM than IG army but for now something that gives them clear role my IG army does not have would be nice.
Just looking some new units that gives something IG doesn't give. Gunline type of allies aren't what I'm looking for first as that IG does well as well. Copying that seems dull and expensive money wise. Maybe later so I can use more of AM than IG army but for now something that gives them clear role my IG army does not have would be nice.
Then I would consider making your AdMech detachment Stygies and add a unit of dragoons (4 or 6). You can infiltrate them, for a first turn charge and they are just brutal (against pretty much everything) since they we got a +2 to hit in melee stratagem, which gives them exploding hits on 4+.
Suzuteo I like your list but I removed guard entirely adding a battalion of Mars with Cawl and Robots. I remove some units add some others but more or less I use the ad mech 6 s for cp cycling . Why cause I trust Cawl with 4 Robots provide an extreme threat my enemies need to deal with . So knight Dragoons priests Cawl Robots all bad ass threats none to be ignored. Now I'm testing how to fit the knight but I'm heading towards Mars battalion stygies vang or out even second batt if allowed from competition rules. Need the CP s to make it work. Something along these lines!!
