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Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Anyone have dimensions for the drill? I'm tempted to scratch build mine somehow but its difficult to tell just how big it is, it looks massive

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 Ideasweasel wrote:
linds14sr20det wrote:
I think these drills could make an insane difference in admech placing at tournaments. I'm gonna talk about these from the context of ITC tournament play, so keep that in mind.

One of the best things we have going for us in ITC is stygies electro priests. The default was to take 19 electro priests (as 20 gave up 2 secondary points). So the drill having 12 really only looses you 7 priests. In the ITC, taking 4 robots or 4 dragoons causes you to give up full gangbusters points. The priests fill the mortal wounds role that cawl with robots does, and the melee role the dragoons do. The only downside of the priests was infiltrating them and going second against mobile firepower or dedicated horde assault. The drill mitigates this so much.

I think a list like this would be really solid:

Stygies Battalion
TPE (with Omniscient Mask)
TPE
3x5 Vanguard
1x3 Dragoons
2x12 Fulgurite Electropriests
2 Termite Drills

Mars Battalion
Cawl
TPE (Warlord with Monitor Malevolus)
3x5 Rangers, each with an arquebus
1x4 Dakkabots

This list has a lot of scary stuff, a lot of mortal wounds it can hand out and a surprising amount of mobility and resilience. And it's pure admech!


It’s nice that it’s Admech. Have you bought the drills yet?


Nope haven't bought the drills yet. I'm gonna proxy them in a few games to test them out (I'll be trying them tonight) and I will report back.

However I did notice something, no where does it say that these are beta rules as far as I can tell. I was also gonna wait for these to become official before picking them up, but it looks like these are already official...
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






It’s on the forgeworld site so seems as official as it gets. My guess is with the total collapse of fires of cyraxus they decided to throw us a bone.
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I'd agree. I think this is basically good to go with no changes until the fall FAQ and then it'll just be point changes likely.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





linds14sr20det wrote:
I'd agree. I think this is basically good to go with no changes until the fall FAQ and then it'll just be point changes likely.

At which point the drills will probably go up substantially considering they are both too cheap now, and also Forge World (which always goes up).

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut






I sincerely hope not. It would be nice to have a good mid to close combat option not going over the top in points cost. For a change (I'm looking at you Kataphrons, Infiltrators, TPD, Fistelans...).

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Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anyone have dimensions for the drill? I'm tempted to scratch build mine somehow but its difficult to tell just how big it is, it looks massive

This. Anyone have dimensions?
   
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Dakka Veteran




@linds14sr20detMade :: Yes, I also think the termites change the nature of admech in tournament ITC games. The Warhammer Community post even specifically mentioned staff priests as good models to put into the termites. Seeing as the community guys seem to be in on it, I think this is an intended admech improvement. The drills have hard counters from melta heavy armies, but they otherwise provide a giant boost to the STYGEIS staff priests builds. I think the termites+staffPriest combo is a strict improvement over a pure staffPriest list assuming you are a going second.

I get the heavy flamer debate being a real debate. You can get more bodies in places of those flamers if you take the storm bolters.

By my reckoning, the drill isn't actually much bigger in its core than a munitorum container. But the drilly bits all around it make it bigger, like a drop pod on its side. I put them at a 6" subway sandwich size.

EDIT: here is a rule conundrum for you ... you can put Hoplites in a Termite, but only the Termite has a FORGEWORLD STYGIES. So if you infiltrate the Termite ... but there are no-world Hoplites inside ... what happenes? Valid infiltration? Are the hoplites even infiltrating?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 05:56:31


 
   
Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






@Wulfey
I brought up this conundrum earlier. I think it depends on if we have to use the stratagem on only the transport or both the transport and its contents. If it's the former, then Inquisitors and non-Stygies units should be able to go into the Drills, which are Stygies. If so, Ryza Electro-Priests and Vanguard are probably the way to go.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Has to be the same forgeworld as you have to pick what forgeworld it is and it can transport that particular forgeworld or the Titan guard units
   
Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Oh right. It's keyworded to Forge World or Secutarii. Okay, never mind on multiple Forge Worlds. But you can take Inquisitors still. Haha.
   
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Dakka Veteran




I think it requires a FAQ. This isn't obvious. The TALLARN answer in the guard faq makes it seem like you get up to 3 units where the 3 includes units in the transport. But ... STYGIES isn't phrased like the TALLARN one. Urg
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I ran a test game this weekend proxying the drill with a Triaros and running some Hoplites (I didnt realize they were min 10 instead of min 5, so I ran a 5 man squad to test them out)

I found the drill to be quite nice. Ran it with the volkite guns, and I was able to do some surprising damage to multi wound units with them. The drill did the bulk of its work in melee, working in tandem with its occupants to surround and crack transports and deny disembark, then plowing into an artillery backline to cause a bit more havoc before it was finally taken out.

Machine Spirit Resurgent was a clutch ability for this beastly thing, and the only real struggle it had was its Wounds stat - my opponent was able to nearly oneshot it at one point with an Onager (it survived with 1 hp and I popped a techpriest out of it and double repaired it on my turn back up to 5) but I found that only 10W made it an extremely glass cannon unit even with Stygies to protect it.

Hoplites were highly meh. Once again S6 and AP-1 makes Arc very bad at actually harming vehicle targets. Filling them with fulgurites seems the obvious good choice.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






I definitely think the way to go are Electro-Priests. The Drill and Priests complement one another. Vanguard with Plasma Calivers works too, but you should bring a Dominus too. I don't think the Hoplites are that great.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/19 13:27:53


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Hi folks, can someone help me with a rule clarification. Under the beta rules the battle brothers stops people mixing and matching cross factions in the same detachment.

How do the likes of Greyfax, Eisenhorn etc now get used? If someone was daft enough to use one would he be best going for an auxiliary detachment? like you can no longer go company commander x2 +Greyfax for a valid supreme command detachment under the proposed rules correct?

How are you folks dealing with a heavy psychic army?

Thanks
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Regarding inquisitors:
1) Take one in an aux detachment
2) take 3 in a supreme command
3) take 1-2 in an inquisition vanguard

Regarding psychic defense in general:
A) Graia got a deny on a 4+ stratagem for 1CP, but that's about it for AdMech
B) Do you run allies? Guard can field some pretty cheap psykers, while Blood Angels can field Mephiston for example who gives you 2 denys (with +1 whilst in 12") and is pretty good in CQC (especially with stratagems)
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






 lash92 wrote:
Regarding inquisitors:
1) Take one in an aux detachment
2) take 3 in a supreme command
3) take 1-2 in an inquisition vanguard

Regarding psychic defense in general:
A) Graia got a deny on a 4+ stratagem for 1CP, but that's about it for AdMech
B) Do you run allies? Guard can field some pretty cheap psykers, while Blood Angels can field Mephiston for example who gives you 2 denys (with +1 whilst in 12") and is pretty good in CQC (especially with stratagems)


Hi cheers for the feedback

I’ve got a mix of various Admech units. Collection is growing but it’s still a bit light. For the time being I quite like mixing in a knight (questoris class) on occasion. That’s really the only ally as such that accompanies the Admech. Im not quite ready to go and buy a load of guard troops for the CP battery and was more floating alternative ideas to getting the 5/5 CP back from the company commander(Kurovs Aquila etc). I quite like the idea being involved in the psychic phase rather than being a complete passenger. Some of the inquisitor characters are quite cool and getting 1-3 models beats having to get 32!

That and I got shredded by some sneaky nurgle magic recently

So am I correct in that I can’t mix company commanders with inquisitors? The answer is probably obvious but my excuse is it’s been a long day haha.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/19 16:42:00


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

You can in different detatchments just not in the same
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






U02dah4 wrote:
You can in different detatchments just not in the same


This.


But since you are also looking for 5+/5+ CP farm you could maybe get a Guard supreme command with 3 Psykers?
That said I would highly recommend investing into some Guardsmen, they are just so cheap for what they do. And they can be painted pretty quick, since they haven´t got nearly the same level of detail like our skitarii.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Ideasweasel wrote:
 lash92 wrote:
Regarding inquisitors:
1) Take one in an aux detachment
2) take 3 in a supreme command
3) take 1-2 in an inquisition vanguard

Regarding psychic defense in general:
A) Graia got a deny on a 4+ stratagem for 1CP, but that's about it for AdMech
B) Do you run allies? Guard can field some pretty cheap psykers, while Blood Angels can field Mephiston for example who gives you 2 denys (with +1 whilst in 12") and is pretty good in CQC (especially with stratagems)


Hi cheers for the feedback

I’ve got a mix of various Admech units. Collection is growing but it’s still a bit light. For the time being I quite like mixing in a knight (questoris class) on occasion. That’s really the only ally as such that accompanies the Admech. Im not quite ready to go and buy a load of guard troops for the CP battery and was more floating alternative ideas to getting the 5/5 CP back from the company commander(Kurovs Aquila etc). I quite like the idea being involved in the psychic phase rather than being a complete passenger. Some of the inquisitor characters are quite cool and getting 1-3 models beats having to get 32!

That and I got shredded by some sneaky nurgle magic recently

So am I correct in that I can’t mix company commanders with inquisitors? The answer is probably obvious but my excuse is it’s been a long day haha.

I have a lot of fun running proper armies of mixed IG and admech, where the IG is more than just a CP battery and the admech are basically a full fledged batallion as well. Lots of CP and they tend to cover each other's weaknesses. Guard provides bodies and blunt firepower while admech help shut down fliers and hard guard counters like Altaoic. Granted I do this because I already own both armies and mainly just for fun, I'm sure there's ways to do a 50/50 guard Admech force in more competitive metas but I lack the models necessary to make my admech truly competitive like dragoons and Kastellans. I'm going to see if my onagers and Armigers can cover the roles since they're far cheaper models, but I'm not expecting to take 1st at Adepticon if that tells you anything.

Guard tanks especially are fun to run with Admech. Most admech players have to take enginseers anyways and they can repair IG tanks just as well as anything else, so there's no point in not doing so. Leman Russe's backing up the drills for a wall of T8 for example would be interesting or you could just do something basic like let the priest hang out next to a few basilisks in the back field. I honestly feel my enginseers do more work for my guard even when taken as admech than they do for my actual admech units since they get access to strats and relics that make them more effective. Combine that with the fact I run Valhallans they make my Russe's almost guaranteed to fight at full BS until the enemy can drop them permanently. That said they'd be just as effective backing up more powerful regiments like Cadian or Catachans.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 lash92 wrote:
Regarding psychic defense in general:
A) Graia got a deny on a 4+ stratagem for 1CP, but that's about it for AdMech
B) Do you run allies? Guard can field some pretty cheap psykers, while Blood Angels can field Mephiston for example who gives you 2 denys (with +1 whilst in 12") and is pretty good in CQC (especially with stratagems)

I defend against psykers by shooting them. Lol.

A) Don't forget Benevolence of the Omnissiah to stop mortal wounds.
B) Primaris Pysker is okay. If you do Blood Angels, Mephiston is definitely nice, as is making Lemartes or Slamguinius your warlord and picking Soulwarden. (Against a psychic focused army, having both is actually a big deal.)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/20 08:56:22


 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






I’m thinking then that the best form of defence is a good offence!

/insert more daka gif

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




WIthout soup psychic defense is too expensive for an admech army. 5CP battalions and soup nerfs just killed inquisitor greyfax and the culexus. Playing with a zero or -1 CP detachment is playing from behind. I have run the GRAIA thing before. I have seen people do the BLACK TEMPLARS deny thing. I have run the SISTERS deny thing. I have never seen the 4+ succeed, even with a reroll. I don't run lists that depend on 4+s to get by.
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Yeah think I’ve just accepted it’s an inherent weakness in the army and to move past it.

Still want knights to work with Admech. Gallant is my current choice
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






I really don't think cullexus is dead. I love my 3 assassin detachment

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I really don't think cullexus is dead. I love my 3 assassin detachment

I don't think a detachment for Assassins is exactly bad but it sucks we rely on it for the most Psyker protection.

I've had enough luck with the Graia stratagem though I'm comfortable using it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in jp
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I really don't think cullexus is dead. I love my 3 assassin detachment

It's not that it's not viable. There are just some problems:
1) If you go up against a Psyker-less army, you have dead points. It's important then that your anti-Psyker component be value added rather than specialized.
2) Opportunity cost for an Assassin detachment is high. I would kill for four detachments (with detachments themselves getting rule of 3'ed).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/21 06:52:44


 
   
Made in it
Been Around the Block




Desio - Italy

I tried a couple of times the new gallant with two Armiger helping him, along with two battalions of Mars and some dakkabot and fistbot.
The knight is a beast, he simply murder everithing. It's a bit too CP heavy, as I wanted to have a Mechanicus warlord and I had to spend 2 CP to make the knight warlord and to give him the paragon gauntlet.
The knight was followed by three fistbots and the cybernetica warlord with Prime Hermeticon and Pseudogenetor, they were crucial in the late game as they survived 'till the third turn almost unscathed as my opponent had to struggle to bring down the knights.
Anyway I'm not amazed by the fistbot, I think that they are overcosted for what they can do, they miss something.
The datasmith is just wrong as elite choiche, should be a QG, it's way better than an engy.

Chaos Marines since the beginning - For The Dark Gods 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Suzuteo wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
I really don't think cullexus is dead. I love my 3 assassin detachment

It's not that it's not viable. There are just some problems:
1) If you go up against a Psyker-less army, you have dead points. It's important then that your anti-Psyker component be value added rather than specialized.
2) Opportunity cost for an Assassin detachment is high. I would kill for four detachments (with detachments themselves getting rule of 3'ed).


I don't think something with 6s to hit is ever dead points tbh. I've asked InControl(3rd in ITC) about it vs no psyker armies. It is still very effective. Plus for me it's just 1 Culexus. So no big deal.

I mean, both London GT winners ran a Culexus. It can't be that bad.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/21 10:50:38


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






Apart from a single Culexus, what else would you take for a tournament army? Eversor and Vindicare?

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