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Yes they are good in CC but you have to take them in units of 10 they don't get the -1 from stygies and you can't DS them.
This means you either take one unit as a counter to assault armies to protect your artillery in a cawl list
Or you stick 3 units in the drills setting you back £500ish
Or you walk very slowly towards the enemy while being shot and never make it you only get the 4++ in melee and they are not going to be sending high AP shots at you
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/02 00:21:23
U02dah4 wrote: Yes they are good in CC but you have to take them in units of 10 they don't get the -1 from stygies and you can't DS them.
This means you either take one unit as a counter to assault armies to protect your artillery in a cawl list
Or you stick 3 units in the drills setting you back £500ish
Or you walk very slowly towards the enemy while being shot and never make it you only get the 4++ in melee and they are not going to be sending high AP shots at you
3 units of 20 are just a bit over 500 points. That is easily doable. Add in the some vertus praetors. Add in some shooting support. Add in a deep striking or outflanking threat or two. Easy. Is it the most competitive list out there? Probably not, but that's not the point.
The point is its a SPACE PHALANX.
The hoplites are cheap and good in combat. Slow with no transports, but transports aren't very good this edition anyway. More bodies. Soak up the firepower, and allow other threats to hit home, or they hit the enemy lines and break them. Glorious!
edit: Also, cost in not a deterrent for this list. It will happen. May take a while, but it will happen. Haven't got the final version down, but if I decide I want 3 termites, I'll get 3 termites.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/02 00:27:05
So we don't care if they provide any benefit atm to ad mech list ? We just want to make a space phalanx whatever the cost with three drills not only costing 500+ points but also a lot of euros !
Good have fun I'm with you but there are not much t say about it. Sounds awesome share pics but I need to buy tons fo new ad mech lists like knights Armiger's etc. Before I start a themed only army most likely not performing good in tables. If you test 3*10 with three transport do post here thanks the results!
Yoda79 wrote: So we don't care if they provide any benefit atm to ad mech list ? We just want to make a space phalanx whatever the cost with three drills not only costing 500+ points but also a lot of euros !
Good have fun I'm with you but there are not much t say about it. Sounds awesome share pics but I need to buy tons fo new ad mech lists like knights Armiger's etc. Before I start a themed only army most likely not performing good in tables. If you test 3*10 with three transport do post here thanks the results!
Well I'm not a tournament player. I go to ones occasionally, but I don't want to make terrible lists either. If the hoplites were terrible, I wouldn't want to run a lot of them. But they are not. They are cheap, and seem really good in CC, and fairly durable.
They seem like a decent counter to knights. Saving on 4s in CC against them, dealing mortal wounds, and massed attacks that deal d3 damage to them. They seem like perhaps a unit or two would actually do very well in knight meta. (if that is a thing?).
They also seem like they would do very well against BA captains, death company, sang guard, etc. Really, when I think about it, they seem really good against elite type CC threats. They also seem like the would do fairly well against boyz. They just seem like a great unit to include in an army.
U02dah4 wrote: Yes they are good in CC but you have to take them in units of 10 they don't get the -1 from stygies and you can't DS them.
This means you either take one unit as a counter to assault armies to protect your artillery in a cawl list
Or you stick 3 units in the drills setting you back £500ish
Or you walk very slowly towards the enemy while being shot and never make it you only get the 4++ in melee and they are not going to be sending high AP shots at you
Gotta take the Hoplites in Drills. Bring an Enginseer with Mask along too.
But yeah. Try it out. If it takes off, I may just buy some bayonets and make my Guardsmen into Hoplites. ;D
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/02 01:07:07
Yoda79 wrote: So we don't care if they provide any benefit atm to ad mech list ? We just want to make a space phalanx whatever the cost with three drills not only costing 500+ points but also a lot of euros !
Good have fun I'm with you but there are not much t say about it. Sounds awesome share pics but I need to buy tons fo new ad mech lists like knights Armiger's etc. Before I start a themed only army most likely not performing good in tables. If you test 3*10 with three transport do post here thanks the results!
Well I'm not a tournament player. I go to ones occasionally, but I don't want to make terrible lists either. If the hoplites were terrible, I wouldn't want to run a lot of them. But they are not. They are cheap, and seem really good in CC, and fairly durable.
They seem like a decent counter to knights. Saving on 4s in CC against them, dealing mortal wounds, and massed attacks that deal d3 damage to them. They seem like perhaps a unit or two would actually do very well in knight meta. (if that is a thing?).
They also seem like they would do very well against BA captains, death company, sang guard, etc. Really, when I think about it, they seem really good against elite type CC threats. They also seem like the would do fairly well against boyz. They just seem like a great unit to include in an army.
How are they a decent counter to knights
1) im pure knights two avengers do the job
2) in a blob of 20 i only need to kill 12ish to wipe the squad
24 shots 16 hits wounding on 2's 13.5 Hits just over 9 dead throw in a storm spear and squads gone.(but im probably takeing endless fury so id kill a couple extra)
( your turn you cant move far enough to charge me)
3)So turn 2 repeat shooting so you have 1 blob now a knight is killing roughly 5 in CC takeing 1.66 mortal in return and takeing your attack back of 15 dudes 6.8 back in CC so 5w assuming you use the strategem to intergect
so either it is multi charged by 3 and wiped or they just maneuver 14+ inches away leaveing you with just the gun shots dealing 4.4 W
So for the firepower of 20-25% of my list for 2 turns you have lost 25% of yours
Yes they do better as a blockade against chargeing elite infantry but a smash CPT will fit through the hole in your army carved out by T1 shooting and those deepstrikeing assault armies became so much weaker post faq that you wont see them often. Justifying one unit as a frontline vs t1 assault list in a mars artillary list is viable more that -no and even then 2x 10 will be more effective than 1x20
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/02 13:36:01
Yoda79 wrote: So we don't care if they provide any benefit atm to ad mech list ? We just want to make a space phalanx whatever the cost with three drills not only costing 500+ points but also a lot of euros !
Good have fun I'm with you but there are not much t say about it. Sounds awesome share pics but I need to buy tons fo new ad mech lists like knights Armiger's etc. Before I start a themed only army most likely not performing good in tables. If you test 3*10 with three transport do post here thanks the results!
Well I'm not a tournament player. I go to ones occasionally, but I don't want to make terrible lists either. If the hoplites were terrible, I wouldn't want to run a lot of them. But they are not. They are cheap, and seem really good in CC, and fairly durable.
They seem like a decent counter to knights. Saving on 4s in CC against them, dealing mortal wounds, and massed attacks that deal d3 damage to them. They seem like perhaps a unit or two would actually do very well in knight meta. (if that is a thing?).
They also seem like they would do very well against BA captains, death company, sang guard, etc. Really, when I think about it, they seem really good against elite type CC threats. They also seem like the would do fairly well against boyz. They just seem like a great unit to include in an army.
How are they a decent counter to knights
1) im pure knights two avengers do the job
2) in a blob of 20 i only need to kill 12ish to wipe the squad
24 shots 16 hits wounding on 2's 13.5 Hits just over 9 dead throw in a storm spear and squads gone.(but im probably takeing endless fury so id kill a couple extra)
( your turn you cant move far enough to charge me)
3)So turn 2 repeat shooting so you have 1 blob now a knight is killing roughly 5 in CC takeing 1.66 mortal in return and takeing your attack back of 15 dudes 6.8 back in CC so 5w assuming you use the strategem to intergect
so either it is multi charged by 3 and wiped or they just maneuver 14+ inches away leaveing you with just the gun shots dealing 4.4 W
So for the firepower of 20-25% of my list for 2 turns you have lost 25% of yours
Yes they do better as a blockade against chargeing elite infantry but a smash CPT will fit through the hole in your army carved out by T1 shooting and those deepstrikeing assault armies became so much weaker post faq that you wont see them often. Justifying one unit as a frontline vs t1 assault list in a mars artillary list is viable more that -no and even then 2x 10 will be more effective than 1x20
So your bringing 2x Crusaders? What else do you bring with those 2?
Honestly, with the way people talk about Knights, you would think that they're utterly invincible against everything. But the fact is that Knights do not have very good shooting for their point and CP costs, are extremely vulnerable to a variety of threats (anti-tank, mortal wounds, melee in general), and need supporting units to help defend them. Not to mention, they are awful at the objectives game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/02 16:44:26
I have a few varients im testing but always 1 warden+1 crusader
Options im considering styrix /warglaive/ canis rex
And BA and or AM allies if im running some combo less than the 5
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Suzuteo wrote: Honestly, with the way people talk about Knights, you would think that they're utterly invincible against everything. But the fact is that Knights do not have very good shooting for their point and CP costs, are extremely vulnerable to a variety of threats (anti-tank, mortal wounds, melee in general), and need supporting units to help defend them. Not to mention, they are awful at the objectives game.
I thought they needed supporters however i have come up against one pure knights list and 1 knights +3 primaris psykers list at comp etc format while running stygies dragoon And AM artillary list one of which won convincingly (lucky dice) and one of which beat me by 1pt and the only games i lost.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/02 16:55:01
Yoda79 wrote: So we don't care if they provide any benefit atm to ad mech list ? We just want to make a space phalanx whatever the cost with three drills not only costing 500+ points but also a lot of euros !
Good have fun I'm with you but there are not much t say about it. Sounds awesome share pics but I need to buy tons fo new ad mech lists like knights Armiger's etc. Before I start a themed only army most likely not performing good in tables. If you test 3*10 with three transport do post here thanks the results!
Well I'm not a tournament player. I go to ones occasionally, but I don't want to make terrible lists either. If the hoplites were terrible, I wouldn't want to run a lot of them. But they are not. They are cheap, and seem really good in CC, and fairly durable.
They seem like a decent counter to knights. Saving on 4s in CC against them, dealing mortal wounds, and massed attacks that deal d3 damage to them. They seem like perhaps a unit or two would actually do very well in knight meta. (if that is a thing?).
They also seem like they would do very well against BA captains, death company, sang guard, etc. Really, when I think about it, they seem really good against elite type CC threats. They also seem like the would do fairly well against boyz. They just seem like a great unit to include in an army.
How are they a decent counter to knights
1) im pure knights two avengers do the job
2) in a blob of 20 i only need to kill 12ish to wipe the squad
24 shots 16 hits wounding on 2's 13.5 Hits just over 9 dead throw in a storm spear and squads gone.(but im probably takeing endless fury so id kill a couple extra)
( your turn you cant move far enough to charge me)
3)So turn 2 repeat shooting so you have 1 blob now a knight is killing roughly 5 in CC takeing 1.66 mortal in return and takeing your attack back of 15 dudes 6.8 back in CC so 5w assuming you use the strategem to intergect
so either it is multi charged by 3 and wiped or they just maneuver 14+ inches away leaveing you with just the gun shots dealing 4.4 W
So for the firepower of 20-25% of my list for 2 turns you have lost 25% of yours
Yes they do better as a blockade against chargeing elite infantry but a smash CPT will fit through the hole in your army carved out by T1 shooting and those deepstrikeing assault armies became so much weaker post faq that you wont see them often. Justifying one unit as a frontline vs t1 assault list in a mars artillary list is viable more that -no and even then 2x 10 will be more effective than 1x20
I meant more in combat, theortically, as the 4 up would reduce the impact of a knights stomp attacks quite a bit.
In a 1500 pure Ad Mech army (Stygies + Mars) how much screening and how many CP is enough for a Cawl firebase? Usually in a 2000 point list I'll take two Battalions for 6x5 Rangers for this purpose, potentially infiltrating some of those if needed to help push back infiltrators. In 1500 points is 3x5 Rangers enough or is more better?
xlDuke wrote: In a 1500 pure Ad Mech army (Stygies + Mars) how much screening and how many CP is enough for a Cawl firebase? Usually in a 2000 point list I'll take two Battalions for 6x5 Rangers for this purpose, potentially infiltrating some of those if needed to help push back infiltrators. In 1500 points is 3x5 Rangers enough or is more better?
For. 2k pure ad mech or even soup I'd prefer to go for 3 detachments and most likely 2 battalions one spreahead for max CP. If I can't I'd go for battalions outrider or vanguard and spreahead.
As we lower points or ad restrictions I'd go as low as superheavy +3 and battalion for knights soup and this is important to consider in list building why take knights many seem to forget. I can't stress this enough why a superheavy +3 CP and a battalion is extremely nice for ad mech. And most likely it would be a Castelan 2* armiger (any pref.) And a stygies battalions assault.
For a pure ad mech two battalions or for a strict 1500 single detach I'd play battalion stygies and Mars spreahead. In order to invest for Cawl you need a basic
Cawl 3-4* Robots and 2 onagers I'd take Icarus for 1500 points lists. And I would take only 3 Robots with those Icarus so to have points for a mobile offensive force either troops and plasma and/or priests or transports and whatever you like. Even the other unused forgeworlds with transports. You can use an effective graia battalion with lots of troops/ priests even rusttalkers ( not sure they worth it over staff priests). But transports open up other forgeworlds plans as well. My favorite graia is an extreme plan for troop based lists . Surviving troops with good weapons transports to use enginseers and antiphych power and some overwatch/melee warlord trait if I remember correctly.
As I v made some calculations seems to me the best versatile 1750 points or generally two detachment restrictions tour if can't take two battalions is.
Stygies battalion + superheavy for a total of 11 CP taking advantage of a helverins and Castelan extreme range and durability from the map edge. While still having the best offensive options with ad mech infiltration. For that purpose I consider this an extreme CP amount and options! V hard to counter all options all aspects this list can provide. Options for cp spending options for combos options for complete mobility so strong even for obj maps. Extremely good atm. And as the games go lower in points the antiair options and knight armor provide even more power. If you can also add some vanguard troops with plasma you should be ok vs horde lists and remain full mobile. 11 CP two different detachments a superb knight auto win vs low antiarmor and an assault currently best deploy in game . What else you need to win?
Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts] . Two Siegebreaker Cannons & Two Shieldbreaker Missiles: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile, 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon
++ Total: [86 PL, 1732pts] ++
Maybe a transport and stock troops or one more Dragoons or on less and adjust. But close to this list . I got only 10 priest maybe you want 19 go for it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/03 13:52:43
xlDuke wrote: In a 1500 pure Ad Mech army (Stygies + Mars) how much screening and how many CP is enough for a Cawl firebase? Usually in a 2000 point list I'll take two Battalions for 6x5 Rangers for this purpose, potentially infiltrating some of those if needed to help push back infiltrators. In 1500 points is 3x5 Rangers enough or is more better?
If you want to run Cawl, go with the second list. You need around 700 points of shooting buffed by Cawl to make him worthwhile over a Dominus. This is assuming you are paying 240 points for just the aura. Keep in mind that the choice is always between Cawl vs. Dominus + Robot/Icarus Crawler.
Mask is not your ideal AdMech relic. Raiment is much better; 6+++ FNP and exploding Overwatch, which Kastelan Robots can actually make good use of (72 attacks means 2 additional hits). However, that would mean getting your Enginseer into the Mars unit somehow.
Maybe this?
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1222
HQ - 287 1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Warlord: Monitor Malevolus, Relic: Raiment of the Technomartyr
Heavy Support - 830 5x Kastelan Robot - 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
Stygies VIII Auxiliary Detachment - 272
Fast Attack - 272 4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
Total: 1494 points 7 CP
This list eliminates an Enginseer taxes in favor of more shooting or fighting power. You lose 2 CP, but we've run this sort of thing on 7 CP before. I always felt that 5 is the best number for a Robot-focused army. It makes it possible to gun down larger threats in a single turn. I also think 4 is the ideal number of Dragoons.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/03 16:52:39
For. 2k pure ad mech or even soup I'd prefer to go for 3 detachments and most likely 2 battalions one spreahead for max CP. If I can't I'd go for battalions outrider or vanguard and spreahead.
As we lower points or ad restrictions I'd go as low as superheavy +3 and battalion for knights soup and this is important to consider in list building why take knights many seem to forget. I can't stress this enough why a superheavy +3 CP and a battalion is extremely nice for ad mech. And most likely it would be a Castelan 2* armiger (any pref.) And a stygies battalions assault.
For a pure ad mech two battalions or for a strict 1500 single detach I'd play battalion stygies and Mars spreahead. In order to invest for Cawl you need a basic
Cawl 3-4* Robots and 2 onagers I'd take Icarus for 1500 points lists. And I would take only 3 Robots with those Icarus so to have points for a mobile offensive force either troops and plasma and/or priests or transports and whatever you like. Even the other unused forgeworlds with transports. You can use an effective graia battalion with lots of troops/ priests even rusttalkers ( not sure they worth it over staff priests). But transports open up other forgeworlds plans as well. My favorite graia is an extreme plan for troop based lists . Surviving troops with good weapons transports to use enginseers and antiphych power and some overwatch/melee warlord trait if I remember correctly.
As I v made some calculations seems to me the best versatile 1750 points or generally two detachment restrictions tour if can't take two battalions is.
Stygies battalion + superheavy for a total of 11 CP taking advantage of a helverins and Castelan extreme range and durability from the map edge. While still having the best offensive options with ad mech infiltration. For that purpose I consider this an extreme CP amount and options! V hard to counter all options all aspects this list can provide. Options for cp spending options for combos options for complete mobility so strong even for obj maps. Extremely good atm. And as the games go lower in points the antiair options and knight armor provide even more power. If you can also add some vanguard troops with plasma you should be ok vs horde lists and remain full mobile. 11 CP two different detachments a superb knight auto win vs low antiarmor and an assault currently best deploy in game . What else you need to win?
Thanks for the in-depth reply Yoda. At the moment I'm running my army on limited models so won't be able to take advantage of a lot of your comments. I'll soon be massively expanding my Ad Mech and have some similar ideas about making use of the Assault Drills, Priests, Hoplites and other Forgeworlds but for now my force is most suited to Stygies, Mars and a bit of Ryza. I'll also be sticking to pure Ad Mech for the foreseeable future, potentially expanding into IK once I've fully fleshed out my current army.
Suzuteo:
Spoiler:
If you want to run Cawl, go with the second list. You need around 700 points of shooting buffed by Cawl to make him worthwhile over a Dominus. This is assuming you are paying 240 points for just the aura. Keep in mind that the choice is always between Cawl vs. Dominus + Robot/Icarus Crawler.
Mask is not your ideal AdMech relic. Raiment is much better; 6+++ FNP and exploding Overwatch, which Kastelan Robots can actually make good use of (72 attacks means 2 additional hits). However, that would mean getting your Enginseer into the Mars unit somehow.
This list eliminates an Enginseer taxes in favor of more shooting or fighting power. You lose 2 CP, but we've run this sort of thing on 7 CP before. I always felt that 5 is the best number for a Robot-focused army. It makes it possible to gun down larger threats in a single turn. I also think 4 is the ideal number of Dragoons.
I'm absolutely taking Cawl purely for his re-rolls, it's too valuable considering the pretty average BS of Kastelans and the prevalence of negative to-hit modifiers. Your advice on upping the cost of the Mars portion to improve efficiency of the list echos Yoda's and others I've read and I'll use it. Sadly I've just got three Dragoons to use at the moment with more on the way soon, so for now I'll drop the Omnissian Mask (and save a CP on infiltrating the Enginseer) and use them as lone operatives and a potential back-up screen.
It seems that 3x5 Rangers and the Dragoons should suffice for my screens at 1500 points so I'll stick to that and up the count on the Kastelan unit. I hadn't much thought about the Raiment of the Technomartyr but as I'll have a relic available I'll try it out in my next game - anything that makes tying up the Kastelans more difficult is welcome.
Your list compared to mine is only slightly lower on CP as I won't be infiltrating that Enginseer and is still enough for Binharic Override, Wrath of Mars, Protector and Conqueror Doctrinas. I'll have to take out one of those Dragoons as I've only got 3, so that leaves a few points spare. The only extra models I've got that weren't in the lists are more Rangers, Vanguard, Onagers, Sicarians and Kataphrons. If I could ask for a bit more of your time, are we able to optimise within those restrictions?
Edit: forgive my terrible editing and quoting.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 14:20:15
Otherwise... maybe you can improve your Skitarii? Upgrading Rangers to Vanguard and giving them each a Plasma Caliver is 57 points. Then I guess double your Crawler stubbers:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1289
HQ - 287 1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Warlord: Monitor Malevolus, Relic: Raiment of the Technomartyr
Heavy Support - 270 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
Basically, Slamguinius and Mephiston sally forth while everything else plays the board. The Dominus+Crawler+Ironstrider combination is a great because it's a moving gun line.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 19:20:07
I don't have any IG, not a fan of the models except for the FWDKoK but I do like the idea of their playstyle. I really appreciate the advice and I'll get back to you about the results when I test it out. The BA detachment list looks a lot of fun but a little low on CP for such an army.
lash92 wrote: But you would just get 5+3+1-2= 7CP for this list, which is quite a low amount for making captain smash + mephy work.
Oh. I'm dumb. I always copy pasted Supreme Command as 3 CP. Sigh. Good thing I haven't tried to play with one yet. (Still waiting for the parts for my DC and Techmarine; only can field a Battalion right now.)
EDIT: Well, here's old faithful for 1500 in 2 detachments:
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Battalion Detachment - 439
HQ - 274 1x Captain w/ Jump Pack - Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Relic: Angel's Wing, Death Visions of Sanguinius
1x Mephiston - Powers: Quickening, Unleash Rage, Wings of Sanguinius
Seems less good because it has that Scout screen, but less shooting. Also, two Captains, which I find inefficient because only one of them is really useful in the start.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/05 02:01:50
Yesterday I fought against a 3 gallant+ double Dark angel battalion ( 3 tacticat squad, 3 scouts, 2 rhinos, 2 liutenants and 2 biblios ) with a pure mechanicum battalion:
cawl +2 engy
2 rangers msu 4 vanguards full plasma
2 drills
4 datasmiths
2 ballistarii with lascannons
1 dragoon with sniper
2 neutronager
4 dakkabots
My opponent kept a gallant in reserve and it was a big mistake: I was able to obliterate a Knight a turn without effort and his first charges met the rangers, so they were obliterated.
In the end i lost the game because the battle ended at the 5th turn and he has more troops than me holding objectives.
I noticed that the sniper dragoon is surprisingly good in dealing mortal wounds, as with the conqueror imperative he can cause a mortal wound on 4+.
I would like to try 6 of them, Matehammer says that are 9 mortal wounds on average with Cawls, even if they are a bit pricey at 378 points...anyway 9 mortal wounds with the possibility to hit characters are not bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/05 10:20:13
Chaos Marines since the beginning - For The Dark Gods
The radium jezzail deals mortal wounds on a wound roll of a 6+ and the Protector Doctrinal Imperative is +1/+2 to to-hit rolls so the interaction doesn't work in the way you played it. I think the transuranic arquebus is a much better sniper weapon, it's significantly cheaper, is relatively safe buried in a backfield unit of infantry and can potentially hand out D3 mortal wounds. I've still not had great results from it though.
xlDuke wrote: The radium jezzail deals mortal wounds on a wound roll of a 6+ and the Protector Doctrinal Imperative is +1/+2 to to-hit rolls so the interaction doesn't work in the way you played it. I think the transuranic arquebus is a much better sniper weapon, it's significantly cheaper, is relatively safe buried in a backfield unit of infantry and can potentially hand out D3 mortal wounds. I've still not had great results from it though.
I thought transuranic arquebus only did one mortal wound on a 6, that D3 is just for regular damage.
I want to like mine, but I don't think they've ever actually done anything. They lack weight of fire to guarantee mortal wounds, most targets I want to kill have high invulns, s7 means they only wound Marines on 3's, and they're one of the only weapons in the game that can't move and shoot. That's a lot of drawbacks.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
xlDuke wrote: The radium jezzail deals mortal wounds on a wound roll of a 6+ and the Protector Doctrinal Imperative is +1/+2 to to-hit rolls so the interaction doesn't work in the way you played it. I think the transuranic arquebus is a much better sniper weapon, it's significantly cheaper, is relatively safe buried in a backfield unit of infantry and can potentially hand out D3 mortal wounds. I've still not had great results from it though.
I thought transuranic arquebus only did one mortal wound on a 6, that D3 is just for regular damage.
I want to like mine, but I don't think they've ever actually done anything. They lack weight of fire to guarantee mortal wounds, most targets I want to kill have high invulns, s7 means they only wound Marines on 3's, and they're one of the only weapons in the game that can't move and shoot. That's a lot of drawbacks.
You're correct. They're D3 damage with an additional mortal wound on a wound roll of 6+, I'd conflated the two.
brugner8 wrote: Yesterday I fought against a 3 gallant+ double Dark angel battalion ( 3 tacticat squad, 3 scouts, 2 rhinos, 2 liutenants and 2 biblios ) with a pure mechanicum battalion:
cawl +2 engy
2 rangers msu 4 vanguards full plasma
2 drills
4 datasmiths
2 ballistarii with lascannons
1 dragoon with sniper
2 neutronager
4 dakkabots
My opponent kept a gallant in reserve and it was a big mistake: I was able to obliterate a Knight a turn without effort and his first charges met the rangers, so they were obliterated.
In the end i lost the game because the battle ended at the 5th turn and he has more troops than me holding objectives.
I noticed that the sniper dragoon is surprisingly good in dealing mortal wounds, as with the conqueror imperative he can cause a mortal wound on 4+.
I would like to try 6 of them, Matehammer says that are 9 mortal wounds on average with Cawls, even if they are a bit pricey at 378 points...anyway 9 mortal wounds with the possibility to hit characters are not bad.
Why do you have 4 Datasmith?
Ironstrider Ballistarii is 95 points each, but a group of 4-6 of them gets CPI and hits on 2+ after moving; 3+ after advancing (you can also use Rage of the Machines to get the same effect). AdMech sort of forces you to embrace large units.
You should invest in 12 or 24 Electro-Priests if you like mortal wounds and have Drills.
brugner8 wrote: Yesterday I fought against a 3 gallant+ double Dark angel battalion ( 3 tacticat squad, 3 scouts, 2 rhinos, 2 liutenants and 2 biblios ) with a pure mechanicum battalion:
cawl +2 engy
2 rangers msu 4 vanguards full plasma
2 drills
4 datasmiths
2 ballistarii with lascannons
1 dragoon with sniper
2 neutronager
4 dakkabots
My opponent kept a gallant in reserve and it was a big mistake: I was able to obliterate a Knight a turn without effort and his first charges met the rangers, so they were obliterated.
In the end i lost the game because the battle ended at the 5th turn and he has more troops than me holding objectives.
I noticed that the sniper dragoon is surprisingly good in dealing mortal wounds, as with the conqueror imperative he can cause a mortal wound on 4+.
I would like to try 6 of them, Matehammer says that are 9 mortal wounds on average with Cawls, even if they are a bit pricey at 378 points...anyway 9 mortal wounds with the possibility to hit characters are not bad.
This list needs some serious fix . Wasting so much points it's only logical to get bad results. You actually gimping your own army.
1) I believe you mean you played a brigade not a battalion. And that would result in an extreme number of CP 15 to begin with. Where would you use 15 CP to win the game with this list?
2) making two battalions you be starting with a 13 base and you d be better off with a Mars and stygies battalion. Spending CP to infiltrate priests transport even troops for obj holding. Even if you decide you d be trying a brigade you LL need to make list abjustments to use them.
3) brigade or battalions or knights super heavy you need options to spend CP? Best are :
A) on your fast slot a group of 3-4+ Dragoons with Lance's. Can screen can att can walk fast or be infiltrated. Must have for pure ad mech can use +2 to hit gem and explode cc on 4+ for *3 hits. Use one CP to explode in enemy lines or use CP to move fast for obj cap.
B) a group or more in your elite slot staff priests . Use CP to infiltrate then or use 3 CP to attack twice . Kill a unit and get their defnce buff.
C) Robot group for wrath of Mars with Cawl. And or combination of plasma destroyers for max damage output etc. Even this would be better than the list.
D) you could decide to play with your troops . If you take 6 units of troops try 2*5 sniper rangers With omnispex maybe 2-4 one plasma vanguard advancing or transported with enginseers and drils. Just taking stock troops won't cut it. Even 6* ranger arc rifles would had a better chance on getting objectives. Even if you took breachers infiltrate then and use defnce CP for Xtra save and att you d had better obj hold.
So all in all infiltration(stygies) fast units(dragoons) or advancing units (plasma vang) CP hungry- mortal delivery ( Robotd, priests ,knights ) would be considered in your list.
Chaos Marines since the beginning - For The Dark Gods 
