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I had an interesting ruling in a game i had today, see what you guys think. Bear in mind it was my opponent that ruled this as ok, not me.
So, the wording in Kastellan battle protocols for protector says “may not move or charge” my opponent ruled that i could hoewever pile in and consolidate as these are not classed as “moving” or “charging”. I mean, it does literally say cannot move or charge and neither pile in or consolidate are worded as “pile in movement” or “consolate movement” and i certainly wasnt going to argue against him allowing my robots to do so.
The scenario was basically that his Venom had charged my enginseer, made the charge and had drawn the nearby robots into combat. He allowed me to pile in after he resolved his charge attacks on the enginseer. Enginseer and robots combined managed to finish it off (it had 3 wounds at this point)
Incidentally most frustrating match ever, 3 venoms, 2 ravagers and 2 flyers all playing “the floor is lava” on tops of ruins to avoid chicken melee. He won 9-8 on points on turn 5 incidentally with a single squad of 5 warriors remaining. I’d only lost my 3 squads of rangers and 2 chickens from my 1200 points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/07 22:39:16
You may notice im 4 pts over 1200, thats one of the great things about playing with friends, nobody quibbles over a few points. Even though i could have dropped an arc rifle and been bang on 1200. We just get on and play games.
This same list netted me a 13-9 win against an Eldar force which was a similar story, one or two models/units left and most of my army still alive.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/07 22:36:51
You may notice im 4 pts over 1200, thats one of the great things about playing with friends, nobody quibbles over a few points. Even though i could have dropped an arc rifle and been bang on 1200. We just get on and play games.
This same list netted me a 13-9 win against an Eldar force which was a similar story, one or two models/units left and most of my army still alive.
I m not sure why we talking about a 1200 list but still I would say what I think about your list. And let me clarify 1000 list or. 1750 list would be a valid talk I don't see many play 1200 list maybe it's a friendly kind or something.
A) your list has one detachment and I don't know if you did on purpose or it was also another house rule. If you agreed one detachment then have fun with your list else I would definitely play a battalions and an outrider as I see your units and ppaystyle!. Playing two battalions would alter qyour list completely so I'd say basic change as close to what you play now!
B) The problem with admech remains mostly in their codex utility. In order to maximize the output of CP spending you need bigger units. That said using Robots effectively requires optimal Cawl - dominus - 4+ Robots . You decide to go for more CP to have to spend then again you spend points and can't make the groups larger!
C) smaller lists require focus . So you either get 4+ Robots and effectively buff them wrath them etc or a bs4+ won't provide stable results. Not to mention 3 robots not so hard to deal with even if overwatch . Take flamers and a set of two robots I understand but this is in my eyes wasted 330 points on bs 4 when most enemy lists defence would be a -1 to hit? Stack robots ad destroyers and dominus play the combo . +Hit + wrath with steady reasults rest screen them.
D) 330 points of Robots removed. Ad 47 points enginseers for a new detachment outider stygies. Make one clear battalion most likely from troops Graia.
Stygies would have hq and 1*4dragoons and 2*1 balistary.fast slot can defend can att can infiltrate and all of them screen. The group of 4 Dragoons worth spending CP on their tasers. So total points with autocsnnon balistari 47+ 16 -330= 250 average.
E) make both onagers neutron add one more icarus 130+30 . Left a group of staff priests for stygies options maybe 6 priests etc.
Now we got
1) options. Infiltrate Dragoons or set sniper balistsry as you like.
2) infiltrations is a weapon you need to exploit defence or offence.
3) better usage of CP .
4) durability on troops )
5) mobility. So much mobility win games .
6) go all out offensive use infiltration and attack or use -1 to hit and settle defensively both valid.
7)consistency worse case scenario use your onagers and balistsry for arty rest screen and priests to counter attack . Till more valid that s plot unit list.
Played a 2k point game against Dark Eldar today tournament style. My list wasn't the absolute most competitive admech army you can possibly build, but it has teeth. I think the only reason why I lost ultimately was due to the Dark Eldar player seizing the initiative, and not being able to bank on an Imperial Knight revive, which Dark Eldar is the only faction can do that. Regardless, it was a close game up until the end.
This was a local tournament that played regular Maelstrom missions out of the book, 2 detachment limit, and you cannot have 2 of the same detachment type, so no double battalions.
A bunch of kabalites with blasters in venoms, 1 Raider
Spearhead, the dark eldar peeps with the pain engines, 4+ invuln trait
HQ dude with a 4+ invuln, grotesque I think?
3 Talos pain engines with haywire cannons
So as you can see, the odds were pretty stacked against me, as the list has tons of anti tank that simply just passes through my invuln saves and deals mortal wounds through the haywire rule, which ended up being really what leveraged the game in his favor. The seize definitely didn't help, but it wasn't what tilted the game in his favor ultimately.
If I had the models I would switch out the dunecrawler for another armiger. The Termite itself performed quite well, taking out one Talos with shooting, then charging another one and finishing it off after I forced it to explode with machine spirits revenge.
I did force my opponent to use agents of vect multiple times to use up command points, twice with wrath of mars and once with Our Darkest Hour. It did make a dent in the CP he had available as at the end of turn 5 he only had 1 left.
By the way, anyone saying Monitor Malevolus isn't worth it, yeah I disagree. Especially when your opponent is a whale in terms of stratagems, the more they use the more you get back.
Helverins pop a venom per turn. I can't say that about anything else in the army, especially with skyhunter protocol.
The Plasma Vanguard coming out of the Termites did okay, they didn't really have any ideal targets besides softening up the Talos with the Plasma and hitting Kabalites with the Rad Carbines. I'm still not sure what the ideal unit is for the termite. I know that the plasma Vanguard are a better option than what I was using before, which was Infiltrators. Infiltrators wouldn't have done hardly anything in this case either. The plasma vanguard are more of a generalist unit than anything, and they basically did their job of softening up a target to be finished off by the melta drill.
I honestly believe there's a huge lack of internal balance in the DE codex, because the black heart strat is an auto take. I also feel like there's alot of things that are probably under costed, but most people would say that about us too. All of us know its only a matter of time until phosphor bots get the nerf bat so enjoy them while we can, because after that's gone and the priests get nerfed too, which they will, we'll be back to the drawing board. We've got until Chapter Approved in december most likely.
DE won't escape the same fate though. The game would have been very different without agents of vect, the seize, and high dice rolls for mortal wounds on haywire. The haywire scourges are target priority 1, they're a direct counter to my list and likely most of you guys too since we use a lot of vehicles generally speaking.
Overall I'm happy with the list. Gonna be making tweaks, may switch out the dunecrawler and the arquebus for a warglaive. Even though the arquebus did kill off that damned 4+ invuln T5 character that was bugging the crap out of me. IDK. May end up just taking the icarus array instead.
Oh yeah one more thing: Ionic Bulwark trait for questoris imperial knights is an auto take. My Knight tanked so much disintegration and blaster fire it wasn't even funny. Literally an entire shooting phase of his whole army shooting the Knight, including the haywire weapons for mortal wounds, to bring it down when it was already down a few wounds. The 3+ invuln is just too good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/08 02:24:09
I mean i wasnt really looking for any kind of list critique, more important was the ruling on the battle protocol, but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I follow this forum regularly so i already know what you guys consider optimal and the sort of response i would get if i asked for critique. Let me give you some reasoning behind my choices as the environment i play in is very different from the tournament scene.
For context the armies at play today were: dark eldar, orks, eldar, chaos (khorne), my admech and a combined AM + genestealer cults. Not a primarch, knight slamguinus or AM battery in sight no-one other than me had army wide -1 to hit.
So i. Have a 1200pt list because thats what we were playing. We’re not rattling through games, we chat, we joke etc. Good times. The lower points is an attempt to get more games in our timeframe. For the record the choice was 50PL or 1200pts and seeing as my 1200 was 74PL....i welcomed the 1200pts. Its worth noting that the people i played with viewed my army/list as underpointed and in many ways too strong. When you consider most of their 1200 pts were around the 50_60PL mark im inclined to think that probably robots and taser lances are in for a pts increase at some point or an faq to make the lances only explode on a natural 6.
I took a single battalion because i couldnt fit cawl and 4 robots in with enough points spare to actually do anything else, I have no problems killing things thats something admech do rea lly well, I do have great issues claiming objectives and putting perssure on the backfield to give my opponents something other t han the robots to worry about. Hence the 2 squads of 3 dragoons. Which again still mowed down anything they touched. Even with only 3 robots and re roll 1s from canticles i still ruined most things, even the venoms and bombers that are -1 to hit. That many dice it just doesnt matter that much.
My DE opponent is very good, i learn a lot from him, he basically deployed all his venoms and raiader/ravagers on top of ruins and moved them from building to building the entire time, so I at least saved the 2 cp i would have spent on infiltration in that matchup. Especially given most aeldari weaponry is short range he had to move closer anyway and take a round of shooting with the dragoons at -2 before he could get close enough do any real damage.
Lower points were again the reason why i only had a single neutron. I considered taking a 4th robot instead of the beamer onager, but i considered the lack of cawl or a dominus and figured thats too many eggs in one basket after they’re rooted and at this points bracket i dont have to worry about knights or primarchs so wrath of mars feels pointless. The toughest thing i had to take down were wave serpents and the beamer actually gave me great flexibility to take out infantry at range and is a suprisingly good screen when ruins are pretty close together.
I just couldnt make the points work to have an icarus and a neutron. Though i dont really like icarus, not because i dont think they’re effective, but they feel too army-like and a very much dislike the aesthetic of marines and AM.
Anyway, thanks for your input, i hope you can see why some of my choices might not fit with the tournament meta. Generally the people i play against are out for cool stuff to happen, not to press the delete button once a turn in the most efficient manner. One of our group is actually Dan Harden, one of the White Dwarf staff writers, he is so much about the cool stuff he’d rather ignore a rule and it be epic than have endless rules mongering for advantage. Myself and the DE player are about as serious as it gets for us lol
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/08 03:15:35
Having fun check! You don't have to explain glad you did! Still if yo consider mobility I tried to give some options. Try test swap your listd that what is nice with lower points you can test more game. Again I only give suggestions I m in favor players should optimize according to their playstyle no matter what forms say or meta etc. Play have fun.
Yoda79 wrote: Having fun check! You don't have to explain glad you did! Still if yo consider mobility I tried to give some options. Try test swap your listd that what is nice with lower points you can test more game. Again I only give suggestions I m in favor players should optimize according to their playstyle no matter what forms say or meta etc. Play have fun.
It won’t always be 1200, its just there were 6 of us on 3 tables and it was a case of either one big game each or 2-3 smaller ones. I personally find 1200 too restrictive for admech so im hoping to get a game in with just one of our group at higher points costs. Then i can do things like have dragoons and balistarii, though i think helverins do that job way way better. I’d love to field balistarii but the whole not being able to move and fire without penalty and not having the innate -1 of dragoons make them less appealing.
I do have a lot more options not having to plan to counter the most tip top rules efficient forces. What i really want to do is get some fulgurites and/or hoplites and peltasts into the mix. Maybe a drill, that i’ll clearly proxy or convert because £75 for a transport is absurd. But then so is £25 for 5 electro priests -_-
I’m kinda moving away from the screening concept, it feels much more fun to overwhelm my opponent with threats and have to make them pick their targets carefully than them know instantly what the biggest threat i have is. Which in most tournament lists is hammer marines, dragoons and robots. Its predictable. My experience so far is the more avenues you have to provide a serious threat that needs dealing with it doesnt matter what those units are. My 2 squads of 3 dragoons really worries people whether they're infiltrated or not. Peltasts might not be in range first turn, but you can advance and blind barrage to make them -2 to hit so they survive long enough to get in range. Fulgurites might not need to be infiltrated if you advance them and infiltrate your dragoons, or vice versa, people tend not to focus on distant melee threats when they already have one right in their face
Hoplites and peltasts are crazy cheap for their utility, though the str 3 on peltasts im less fond of as im now sold on the range, str and potential -1ap of galvanic rifles over radium carbines. Though the hammershot compensates for that, it depends what you’re shooting at. A squad of 10 peltasts is 20 points cheaper than a robot, shoots better (especially with strategms) can move, hold objectives on ruins and is a much more flexible option for getting -2 ap onto stuff.
Atm as I see a competitive game knights are the extra detach I play.
For a brigade pure ad mech most likely I'd use some new elite ones with transports etc. For a competitive 1750-2000 stygies Castelan or Cawl star cc knights are for me good enough
No, you aren't missing anything ... there is a school of thought where the TUA is an expensive rifle both money and points wise ... there is some logic in splitting them up amongst your ranger teams so that your opponent has to kill 4 models before you pull the expensive .
I myself build lists and then spend " extra points on things like snipers , plasma's etc while I wiggle as much bang for my buck in a list ... the snipers are cool ... but REALLY 2 of them cost the same as a dragoon in points and i'd much rather have a dragoon
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/09 16:19:02
Fair enough. I personally cannot stand the Dragoon models so that won't be happening. But I see the logic behind only putting 1 in a unit to make it 4 wounds to get to it. Plus it keeps it relatively cheap.
TheMostWize wrote: Fair enough. I personally cannot stand the Dragoon models so that won't be happening. But I see the logic behind only putting 1 in a unit to make it 4 wounds to get to it. Plus it keeps it relatively cheap.
Can't blame you. Dragoons are fantastic models, but they are expensive and difficult to build (and almost impossible to magnetize). Plus, they can be replaced somewhat by Warglaives or Blood Angels. The former comes with a shooty Knight, and the latter with Scouts for a gunline.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/09 20:02:26
I'm torn about the arquebuses lately. I play a squad of 5 Rangers with 2 arquebuses and an Omnispex. On the plus side, they made me win games by themselves sometimes, shooting a QG from across the table through two sets of windows, or one-shotting an important enemy hero, finishing off a vehicle... I love them. And the other side, they might as well stay at home sometimes, rolling 1s or 2s to Wound all game or stuff like that. They require a Dominus nearby for more efficiency, and so I tend to have always the same backline with my snipers, my Robots and my Onagers buffed by my Dominus, and this limits my deployment options considerably. And with the 57 pts I pay for the snipers I could bring 8 more bare Rangers.
Lately I want to play my army way more aggressively, even if it's not entirely the point of AdMech. Using my 3 Dragoons and my 10 Fulgurites as a first distraction, followed by the infantry and the Infiltrators. I even want to try the Beamer Onagers more extensively, they're the cheapest and encourage to move forward, and their D6 shots is nice to deal with tough infantry/light monsters with multi-wounds. I played one in a 1000 pts tournament and was happier than with an Icarus or Laser in this format. Snipers require too much trouble for this kind of list. I'll have to build something with Dark Angels allies, as they are my second army and have mobility with the Inceptors and Ravenwing Bikes. Also this might be easier to play my DW Knights with the numbers of the AdMech to distract the chaff.
I am against snipers. They don't make back their points quickly enough. Plus, it is usually easier to kill what a character is buffing than the character themselves.
AdMech is one of the top tier aggressive armies now. It's pretty much something we have by default, since we have an infiltration mechanic. People pretty much have to worry about strong alpha strike when playing Blood Angels, Alpha Legion, and us. If you take us with Blood Angels, well, people have to deploy carefully.
We also have probably the most must-kill units in the game. Electro-Priests need to be killed before they make a kill and become nearly unkillable. Dragoons need to be stopped before they get in charge range of vehicles; they are terrifyingly efficient can openers. Kastelan Robots need to be tied up in CC before they just wipe entire detachments off the board. So unlike in many matchups, the opponent is pressured to make a ton of high opportunity cost decisions. With Blood Angels on top of this, they have to wall up against a jump pack assault too.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/09 20:10:03
Yea the Ad. Mech I'm looking at are more for filling out my Castellan, Crusader, Gallant force. That's why the arquebus was intriguing. I ended up switching and parsing it down to 2 5 man rangers each with an arquebus and 2 vanguard with 2x Calivers. That couple with 2 tech priests.
It's either that or go sisters for the battalion detachment.
Seems solid. Some form of this has been tour tested . Seems to work but we don't know about consistent results and obj holding heavy missions. For fun it's definitely nice . You most likely can post it into knights lists. I'm worried about the low cp and low troop count. See it with a stygies or graia battalion should get better results from more CP and a few stock troops. You can manage the battalion points and you definitely need the CP more than 3 enginseers!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/09 23:55:38
The third enginseer feels like a waste. If you already have 2 enginseers, can you find points to drop the 3rd and take 3x5 min squads of rangers? the Knights will really benefit from the extra 4CP and the rangers will be the only things you have holding objectives in the backfield. Also, Knights get a lot of benefit and CP gains from being the warlord. Necromechanic would make more sense if you ran long ranged shooting knights that might survive turn over turn. But you are running melee knights that will run far ahead of your enginseers. I would lean towards giving a knight your main WLT so that way the second WLT and second relic for the knights is even cheaper. Something like:
I think helverins would do you better since they can hide on the other side of the board and not feed easy kills. Melee warglaives do basically the same job as the gallants and their shooting is very similar to the damage profile of your gallants. Warglaives will also crowd out space your gallants need to be getting in there and killing. Helverins are very good at being behind cover first turn yet still easily getting within 60" of their targets with their 14" movement. This list would give you 14CP base. If you make a knight your warlord then you can easily get relics for all 3 and WLTs for 2 while still having 10CP base.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/10 00:29:14
TheMostWize wrote: Yea the Ad. Mech I'm looking at are more for filling out my Castellan, Crusader, Gallant force. That's why the arquebus was intriguing. I ended up switching and parsing it down to 2 5 man rangers each with an arquebus and 2 vanguard with 2x Calivers. That couple with 2 tech priests.
It's either that or go sisters for the battalion detachment.
Knight lists need two things:
1) CP 2) Ability to play the board
Both things point to a Guard Battalion and maybe also an AdMech Battalion for repairmen.
I appreciate the responses. My meta tends to have very competitive lists and I've found my skitarii infantry have not been cutting it, hence why I am asking about lists that don't run them. It is true that I do need the CPs, but I usually never make the points back on rangers or vanguard infantry (they get blasted down by custodes bikers, big cultist blobs, guardsmen squads, etc).
I'm also lacking the bits for a 3rd gallant but I figure gallants are really good so I might buy a 4th knight to turn him into a gallant as well.
I am really just trying to avoid wasting points on skitarii, but it seems really that it comes down to having to make a choice: more points spent in the right places vs more CPs for my knights.
I.E. 10 guard vs 5 rangers or 10 guard vs 5 vanguard is really disadvantageous for the skitarii. Seems like giving them special weapons also makes them less point efficient.
Also, I'm not really sure about the helverins. What are their ideal targets? Most of them time I'm fighting cheap inf spam, knights, or custodes. The math seems really bad against all of these targets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/10 01:55:12
At 2000 points, infantry definitely do not last long, especially outside of Drills. Hence why having quantity is important for baby sitting objectives.
Octovol wrote: I had an interesting ruling in a game i had today, see what you guys think. Bear in mind it was my opponent that ruled this as ok, not me.
So, the wording in Kastellan battle protocols for protector says “may not move or charge” my opponent ruled that i could hoewever pile in and consolidate as these are not classed as “moving” or “charging”. I mean, it does literally say cannot move or charge and neither pile in or consolidate are worded as “pile in movement” or “consolate movement” and i certainly wasnt going to argue against him allowing my robots to do so.
The scenario was basically that his Venom had charged my enginseer, made the charge and had drawn the nearby robots into combat. He allowed me to pile in after he resolved his charge attacks on the enginseer. Enginseer and robots combined managed to finish it off (it had 3 wounds at this point)
Incidentally most frustrating match ever, 3 venoms, 2 ravagers and 2 flyers all playing “the floor is lava” on tops of ruins to avoid chicken melee. He won 9-8 on points on turn 5 incidentally with a single squad of 5 warriors remaining. I’d only lost my 3 squads of rangers and 2 chickens from my 1200 points.
I missed this, but I am very sure piling in is considered moving.
I honestly think flying vehicles should not be allowed to end their moves on top of buildings. It's a bit funny. That being said, Splitting up amongst ruins means they cannot support one another, and something is left exposed. Well, unless their entire army flies.
Taranis Super Heavy Detachment 6CP Knight Warden, Exalted Court Member, Endless Fury, Ion Bulwark
Knight Gallant, Exalted Court Member, Landstrider, Sanctuary
Knight Gallant
You have 8CP after the heirlooms and the exalted court members. You can deep strike the drills, or spend 2 CP to infiltrate them. The rangers give you a bit of a screen as well. This list is definitely gonna catch a few people out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/10 19:47:04
If your goal is to get your Knights killed, well, you'll succeed.
I would take two barebone Battalions just for the CP. Guard is probably your best bet since the 30 Guardsmen let you screen and play the board with MMM.
The Dominus is superfluous for the army. Rangers don't get much better with rerolling 1s.
One larger unit of Priests is safer than two small units because you need to totally kill what you charge on the first turn or they will melt like butter on a hot summer day. Another option is to take 12 Priests and a Drill; take 11 if you want to bring the Mask along.
You need anti-tank. You cannot and should not rely on your Gallant to provide that for you because there is a good chance it won't make it into melee before the threat gets to shoot. And if a Shadowsword or Castellan gets to shoot first, it pretty much shuts you out. Maybe take a Knight Errant with the relic Thermal Cannon?
Sainted Ion is better than Sanctuary in most circumstances. Most common "heavy" melee weapons have AP-3, meaning a regular 2+ save is no different than 5++ for melee. But the kicker is that you get a much better save against low AP shooting and fighting.
Finally, you don't need two Gallants. It's too inflexible, even for Knights. Bring a diversity of weapons. Two of Warden, Errant, Crusader, or Castellan (Ion Bulwark + Relic Weapon / Landstrider + Sainted Ion) and a cheapo Gallant sound good.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/10 21:41:06
Has anyone thought about using the Prime Hermiticon warlord train on an Admech HQ? Putting one on on a tech priest dominus and then putting the dominus and fulgurites in drills sounds really fun. Problem is then your warlord is right in enemy lines...might be fun though.
Anyways, I just spent like 4 hours putting together 20 secutarii hoplites in one go...oh Omnissiah how I hate resin! I should be using them later on today to test them out!
Octovol wrote: I had an interesting ruling in a game i had today, see what you guys think. Bear in mind it was my opponent that ruled this as ok, not me.
So, the wording in Kastellan battle protocols for protector says “may not move or charge” my opponent ruled that i could hoewever pile in and consolidate as these are not classed as “moving” or “charging”. I mean, it does literally say cannot move or charge and neither pile in or consolidate are worded as “pile in movement” or “consolate movement” and i certainly wasnt going to argue against him allowing my robots to do so.
The scenario was basically that his Venom had charged my enginseer, made the charge and had drawn the nearby robots into combat. He allowed me to pile in after he resolved his charge attacks on the enginseer. Enginseer and robots combined managed to finish it off (it had 3 wounds at this point)
Incidentally most frustrating match ever, 3 venoms, 2 ravagers and 2 flyers all playing “the floor is lava” on tops of ruins to avoid chicken melee. He won 9-8 on points on turn 5 incidentally with a single squad of 5 warriors remaining. I’d only lost my 3 squads of rangers and 2 chickens from my 1200 points.
I missed this, but I am very sure piling in is considered moving.
I honestly think flying vehicles should not be allowed to end their moves on top of buildings. It's a bit funny. That being said, Splitting up amongst ruins means they cannot support one another, and something is left exposed. Well, unless their entire army flies.
I said the same to him! It was him that raised it because i could only get 2 of my robots in combat without the pile in. I’ve just checked the core rules and it does describe pile in and consolidate as ‘you may move up to 3”’ so my take is that we wouldnt be able to do any of those moves.
Oh his whole army was flying. 3 venoms, 2 raiders, 1 ravager all filled with troops and hqs and 2 flyers whose name escapes me. Because all of these vehicles are open topped, which has no penalty like it used to in 7th as far as i can see, units embarked on all these units can fire out the top there was no need for them to disembark without me destroying them. Which i did. Arc rifles were actually pretty effective as venoms and raiders are only t5.
Suzuteo wrote: If your goal is to get your Knights killed, well, you'll succeed.
I would take two barebone Battalions just for the CP. Guard is probably your best bet since the 30 Guardsmen let you screen and play the board with MMM.
The Dominus is superfluous for the army. Rangers don't get much better with rerolling 1s.
One larger unit of Priests is safer than two small units because you need to totally kill what you charge on the first turn or they will melt like butter on a hot summer day. Another option is to take 12 Priests and a Drill; take 11 if you want to bring the Mask along.
You need anti-tank. You cannot and should not rely on your Gallant to provide that for you because there is a good chance it won't make it into melee before the threat gets to shoot. And if a Shadowsword or Castellan gets to shoot first, it pretty much shuts you out. Maybe take a Knight Errant with the relic Thermal Cannon?
Sainted Ion is better than Sanctuary in most circumstances. Most common "heavy" melee weapons have AP-3, meaning a regular 2+ save is no different than 5++ for melee. But the kicker is that you get a much better save against low AP shooting and fighting.
Finally, you don't need two Gallants. It's too inflexible, even for Knights. Bring a diversity of weapons. Two of Warden, Errant, Crusader, or Castellan (Ion Bulwark + Relic Weapon / Landstrider + Sainted Ion) and a cheapo Gallant sound good.
I appreciate the feedback but your tone could use some work haha.
I've been playing the gak out of my gallant with sanctuary and I have to say I definitely prefer sanctuary over the sainted iron. Rotate ion shields works in cc, and a 4++ with him in combat can really make him tanky. Sainted iron only really helps against small arms fire as I typically rotate against anything scary.
I overlooked the idea of an errant with the relic thermal cannon. I tossed in the dominus as I had some spare points laying around as he can get the drills rerolls on their melta cutters, as well as being a (barely) more survivable character than the enginseers. I agree the second gallant was out of place for sure and off the cuff the thermal cannon seems better even though the average number of shots is less. I think that alone could really bump up this list.
Sainted ion gives you a +1 boost vs ap 0-4 in CC And AP0-2 range
Sanctuary gives no boost at range and no boost vs AP 0/AP1in CC it gives you +1 boost vs AP2 if you spend the CP to rotate ion shields matching sacred ion. (Without spending CP it matches sacred ion at AP3).
At AP3 with CP or AP4+ without it is better.
In most circumstances sanctuary is the weaker choice. However I certainly would consider sideboarding it vs say a tyranid CC list
Heafstaag wrote: Has anyone thought about using the Prime Hermiticon warlord train on an Admech HQ? Putting one on on a tech priest dominus and then putting the dominus and fulgurites in drills sounds really fun. Problem is then your warlord is right in enemy lines...might be fun though.
Anyways, I just spent like 4 hours putting together 20 secutarii hoplites in one go...oh Omnissiah how I hate resin! I should be using them later on today to test them out!
Well, if you're bringing Fulgurites, you can do Hermeticon and Mask. But this seems like an all-in strategy that can go really wrong.
Ugh, matching all the robes and legs then cleaning up the seams is what drives me nuts about Skitarii. So glad most of my Tech Guard are kitbashed.
linds14sr20det wrote: I appreciate the feedback but your tone could use some work haha.
I've been playing the gak out of my gallant with sanctuary and I have to say I definitely prefer sanctuary over the sainted iron. Rotate ion shields works in cc, and a 4++ with him in combat can really make him tanky. Sainted iron only really helps against small arms fire as I typically rotate against anything scary.
I overlooked the idea of an errant with the relic thermal cannon. I tossed in the dominus as I had some spare points laying around as he can get the drills rerolls on their melta cutters, as well as being a (barely) more survivable character than the enginseers. I agree the second gallant was out of place for sure and off the cuff the thermal cannon seems better even though the average number of shots is less. I think that alone could really bump up this list.
I am usually one of the more tame posters in this thread, so tone policing me seems sort of quaint.
I guess so. I actually do not play with Gallants, but I fear one with Sainted Ion more, as most of my strategies for defeating it involve dumping low AP shooting and fighting on it. (Knights that don't have Overwatch are very vulnerable to being countercharged.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/11 10:01:34
