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xlDuke wrote:
Doesn't the Omniscient Mask only work for keyword Skitarii units?

Yup.

I'd rather rely on canticles for re-roll 1s than put my warlord in the firing line. Our characters arent terrible in combat, but if you throw enough dice at them all at once they'll soon die. My last 2 battles both my enginseers survived the entire match by just hiding them within range to repair robots and onagers. The fact that all our HQ can repair themselves and optionally do it twice means you pretty much have to commit significantly to take one down or risk it being more or less back at full strength next turn.

I found I could rely on canticles for re-roll 1s on robots so the massive points difference between a dominus and enginseer isn't worth it imo. You don't want them in combat and their ranged weapons are quite short range for where you want to keep them.

Ya know I was thinking i'd probably take a data smith if they could change the battle protocol instantly at the beginning of movement. Or if a tech-priest keyword model conferred an aura bonus to say kataphrons, like it does for other servitors.

How can you rely on canticles for reroll 1s?

I have spammed every know forum for codex change to make datasmiths also able to get as hq. But no hope ! If only we could actually get a serious hq doing something more important than hoding enginseers back field

xlDuke wrote:
Doesn't the Omniscient Mask only work for keyword Skitarii units?

Ah right. Darn. Works with Hoplites though. Haha.

That being said, Monitor is the better Warlord trait.

 Yoda79 wrote:
I have spammed every know forum for codex change to make datasmiths also able to get as hq. But no hope ! If only we could actually get a serious hq doing something more important than hoding enginseers back field

Yeah. I would love to see a Sicarius or Skitarius Prime. Or a Ballistarius Dominus! Datasmith is okay too, especially for Kastelan-focused armies. I mean, you rarely need more than one anyway.

New list I'd like C&C on:

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +6CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [60 PL, 1110pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Exalted Court: Exalted Court: 2 Extra Warlord Traits (-3CP)

Heirlooms of the Household: Heirlooms of the Household: 2 Extra Heirlooms (-3CP)

Household Choice: House Taranis, Questor Mechanicus

+ Lord of War +

Knight Gallant [20 PL, 370pts]: Heavy stubber, Ironstorm missile pod, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet

Knight Gallant [20 PL, 370pts]: Heavy stubber, Heirloom: Armour of the Sainted Ion, Ironstorm missile pod, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
. Character: Exalted Court Member

Knight Gallant [20 PL, 370pts]: Heavy stubber, Heirloom: Mark of the Omnissiah, Ironstorm missile pod, Reaper chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Character: Exalted Court Member

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [52 PL, 889pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Forge World: Mars

+ HQ +

Belisarius Cawl [13 PL, 240pts]
. Warlord: Static Psalm-Code

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 145pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis heavy stubber
. Neutron laser & cognis heavy Stubber: Cognis heavy stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 145pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis heavy stubber
. Neutron laser & cognis heavy Stubber: Cognis heavy stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 145pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis heavy stubber
. Neutron laser & cognis heavy Stubber: Cognis heavy stubber, Neutron Laser

++ Total: [112 PL, 1999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Idea being that I provide no squishy infantry targets to fire at. All T7 or T8. Durable, and Cawl being the warlord denies the opponent Slay the Warlord unless they clear out literally everything else.

So what do you do if someone has a bunch of planes or you see lots of high invuln speedy models? You have no real weight of fire. I feel the onagers would do a lot more as Icarus arrays, since your 3 gallants will be more than enough to kill most armor, but they're useless if you can't clear a screen.

Also those knights will get absolutely murdered by Capt smash and other speedy melee units, making their usefulness as a screen questionable.

The onagers would hit on 4s with icarus arrays (even with Cawl around, that's icky), and the gallants won't be able to clear out tanks by themselves.

Trick is to go first. And if that doesn't work, just bring your knight back from the dead for 2 CP, pay 1 CP to regain base stats, and put Capt Smash 6 feet under in your close combat phase.

 LexOdin9 wrote:
The onagers would hit on 4s with icarus arrays (even with Cawl around, that's icky), and the gallants won't be able to clear out tanks by themselves.

Trick is to go first. And if that doesn't work, just bring your knight back from the dead for 2 CP, pay 1 CP to regain base stats, and put Capt Smash 6 feet under in your close combat phase.

If you are going to play Knights, you need to de-risk the army. A lot can go wrong here, a fact that is exacerbated by the lack of mutually supporting elements. A full half of your army follows the same strategy and vulnerabilities. For example, if you were up against me, you would have to somehow protect your Crawlers from Slamguinius and Mephiston all while killing your way through 9 units of infantry to get to my Kastelans and Basilisks, which drop one Gallant every turn. Really, there is no threat whatsoever to my army that is not deeply threatened in turn.

I think 3 Dunecrawlers is too little to be really worth Cawl over the standard Magos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yoda79 wrote:
I have spammed every know forum for codex change to make datasmiths also able to get as hq. But no hope ! If only we could actually get a serious hq doing something more important than hoding enginseers back field

Enginseers were originally Elites only and boy did that suck.

I can’t think of much reason why I wound want a Datasmith over an Enginseer.

 ph34r wrote:
I think 3 Dunecrawlers is too little to be really worth Cawl over the standard Magos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yoda79 wrote:
I have spammed every know forum for codex change to make datasmiths also able to get as hq. But no hope ! If only we could actually get a serious hq doing something more important than hoding enginseers back field

Enginseers were originally Elites only and boy did that suck.

I can’t think of much reason why I wound want a Datasmith over an Enginseer.

Yeah, you need 700 points of shooting or so to make Cawl more worthwhile than a Dominus.

I would take a Smith and a Enginseer over two Enginseers.

A datasmith his a undercosted terminator with a cool pistol, it's better on every single aspect than a enginseer.
Basically is a standard terminator with two more wounds, better movement, better gun and master of machines ability.
Cost wise is just 4 points more than a termy, it's a really wise priced units.
A standard unit of termy has 10 wounds and 11 attacks for 192 points, if you take 5 datasmith they perform quite similar in CAC, with 10 attacks but they have 40 wounds AND they can repair their pets for 20 points more.

I'd love to have Datasmiths HQs, they make more sense than Enginseers who are just glorified mechanics. I have a tradition to send mine in Berserk mode whenever his Robots get killed, sending him in CC against the first enemy he finds. He punched 4W off a Predator once this way

Write this to warahmmer community team! More mail more probable the switch

The biggest downside for me is that datasmiths can only repair robots. My enginseers keep themselves and other things alive for much less points than a dominus.

I'd happilly take 2 enginseers and a datasmith for a brigade. If only it didn't take an entire turn to switch robot battle protocols, then I wouldn't have to scuttle my robots, i'd have the option of switching them to aegis to move them etc. It would be pointless if they could be switched instantly by a datasmith though. I just dislike taking robots JUST to park them and fire, they become a huge target.

Catachan executioner with harker is the best in most circumstances. Onager was great at index level but people need to change with the times.

Admech are an assault army not an artillary army now

 brugner8 wrote:
A datasmith his a undercosted terminator with a cool pistol, it's better on every single aspect than a enginseer.
Basically is a standard terminator with two more wounds, better movement, better gun and master of machines ability.
Cost wise is just 4 points more than a termy, it's a really wise priced units.
A standard unit of termy has 10 wounds and 11 attacks for 192 points, if you take 5 datasmith they perform quite similar in CAC, with 10 attacks but they have 40 wounds AND they can repair their pets for 20 points more.

Wow. You're right. Alas, we're only allowed to have 3 of them. So nobody will ever be able to live the dream of sticking 12 into a Drill and come out Power Fists a-punching.

Suzuteo wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
The onagers would hit on 4s with icarus arrays (even with Cawl around, that's icky), and the gallants won't be able to clear out tanks by themselves.

Trick is to go first. And if that doesn't work, just bring your knight back from the dead for 2 CP, pay 1 CP to regain base stats, and put Capt Smash 6 feet under in your close combat phase.

If you are going to play Knights, you need to de-risk the army. A lot can go wrong here, a fact that is exacerbated by the lack of mutually supporting elements. A full half of your army follows the same strategy and vulnerabilities. For example, if you were up against me, you would have to somehow protect your Crawlers from Slamguinius and Mephiston all while killing your way through 9 units of infantry to get to my Kastelans and Basilisks, which drop one Gallant every turn. Really, there is no threat whatsoever to my army that is not deeply threatened in turn.

This argument is what we like to call in the business "peen swinging." Or the classic "my dad can beat up your dad" argument. Cringe.

U02dah4 wrote:
Catachan executioner with harker is the best in most circumstances. Onager was great at index level but people need to change with the times.

Admech are an assault army not an artillary army now

What is this post in reference/responding to?

Well I d love to see an ad mech army full assault still after some result comparisons I can't say that desisively .

Although seems like the proper choise ad mech still feels overcosted for assault melee oriented lists. I don't see any unit having that extra flavor to make it happen . Dragoons are good priest fine nice transport but somewhat if you plant to go smash your enemy you might wanna consider BA. And the results are ofc more consistent.

While even if you see results in paper that say they here are better gun lines out there ad mech and especially a Cawl star is a fearsome threat in any environment. Cost effective Cawl reroll Robots overall broken and onagerd v v durable and cost effective and healable forming a good plan ad mech plan that is . With fluff etc.

Yes I understand yes my thouthts and list preferable contains a Castelan two helverins and a stygies priests Dragoons detachment but the results are not consistent. Ad mech has options but does not exploit so much unit ose the melee options.

Our biggest advantage is still infiotration but we don't have that hq buff combo or unit durable maybe a high invu or something. Maybe if you get to play priests first or maybe if you ensure a 2*19 priest group you might start more steady results but that's still a big if especially vs an heavy shooter army going first. If you hide your priests they are slow if you get them in transports they need to b max 12 . And even if you decide to play 3*12*3 priests in transports even so no actual combination make this a overcosted option. It seems a bit more viable with ransports may be if we get a reduced cost for the drill.


With knights are the same. You take one knight would t become a serious plan if you take two you heading to overcosted and focused list with it's plus and minus. And off all those lists are viable what I'm trying to say is beyond Cawl star I don't see yet our flavor Xcel. More options some fun lists love knights sure we can test many more options atm try a lot more units but still we can't say we are more that a v v good gunline beyond Cawl star. Rest are good but not superb vs other options.

 Goldenemperor wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 LexOdin9 wrote:
The onagers would hit on 4s with icarus arrays (even with Cawl around, that's icky), and the gallants won't be able to clear out tanks by themselves.

Trick is to go first. And if that doesn't work, just bring your knight back from the dead for 2 CP, pay 1 CP to regain base stats, and put Capt Smash 6 feet under in your close combat phase.

If you are going to play Knights, you need to de-risk the army. A lot can go wrong here, a fact that is exacerbated by the lack of mutually supporting elements. A full half of your army follows the same strategy and vulnerabilities. For example, if you were up against me, you would have to somehow protect your Crawlers from Slamguinius and Mephiston all while killing your way through 9 units of infantry to get to my Kastelans and Basilisks, which drop one Gallant every turn. Really, there is no threat whatsoever to my army that is not deeply threatened in turn.

This argument is what we like to call in the business "peen swinging." Or the classic "my dad can beat up your dad" argument. Cringe.

To be fair, I asked for criticism and a lot of his observations ring true. On the flip side of the coin, by taking on these vulnerabilities I've eliminated other vulnerabilities.

 Goldenemperor wrote:
This argument is what we like to call in the business "peen swinging." Or the classic "my dad can beat up your dad" argument. Cringe.

How is this peen swinging? I'm just referencing a matchup where having three Gallants might be a huge weakness rather than a strength. The fact that my army is being used as the example doesn't make this any less true. Any strong shooting army that can prevent your Knights from getting into melee is a bad matchup. Overcommitting to any strategy produces these outsized effects.

Also, this is not a very wise deployment:



You're going to be taking turns deploying units, so it is best you deploy with some flexibility in mind.

Your best bet would be to hide your three Crawlers on one side of the board (table edges are your friends!) with clear lines of sight into the enemy deployment. This reduces the amount of safe space that they have to deploy in. The Skitarii go in front of the Crawlers. If you have only 15, I recommend a long, thin line with excess Skitarii place in the center. The Knights come last. I actually am not sure you could ever deploy 3 Gallants in a way where at least one won't be useless, so I will leave that to you.

Suzuteo wrote:
Also, this is not a very wise deployment:



You're going to be taking turns deploying units, so it is best you deploy with some flexibility in mind.

Your best bet would be to hide your three Crawlers on one side of the board (table edges are your friends!) with clear lines of sight into the enemy deployment. This reduces the amount of safe space that they have to deploy in. The Skitarii go in front of the Crawlers. If you have only 15, I recommend a long, thin line with excess Skitarii place in the center. The Knights come last. I actually am not sure you could ever deploy 3 Gallants in a way where at least one won't be useless, so I will leave that to you.

I was going to ask you competitive minded chaps a related question actually. For someone who tends to win or lose games based on how I deployed. (Seriously it really seems t be coming down to this recently)

Where is a good place to learn a smarter way of doing things? Any good YouTube channels or batreps that help a newer player deploy sensibly? I tend to think I’m doing a good job then realise a glaring weakness once the game has started

Have we settled on whats the best way to use our termites now? I am not even sure which forgeworld is used best with this thing. Stygies with E-Priests? than what? is it a huge difference to Lucius E-Priests?

Well, Drills can already Deep Strike, so Stygies.

I think it works something like this:
1. Load up 12 Electro-Priests (or Hoplites) into the Drill.
2. Infiltrate the Drill.
3. Move the Drill. Then charge something with it.
4. Next turn, disembark the Electro-Priests and have them one-inch punch whatever your Drill is fighting.

Basically, the job of the Drill is to get your Priests into melee range relatively safe.

Suzuteo wrote:
Well, Drills can already Deep Strike, so Stygies.

I think it works something like this:
1. Load up 12 Electro-Priests (or Hoplites) into the Drill.
2. Infiltrate the Drill.
3. Move the Drill. Then charge something with it.
4. Next turn, disembark the Electro-Priests and have them one-inch punch whatever your Drill is fighting.

Basically, the job of the Drill is to get your Priests into melee range relatively safe.

This just doesn’t quite seem worth it to me. The reduction in the Fulgurites potential squad size feels like a mighty big trade-off for a little protection and a different attack profile.

What about keeping the traditional Stygies blog and putting a Mars detachment of Vanguard or Corpsucarri in a drill for a pop-up Wrath of Mars on turn 2.

Keep in mind that drill has a decent amount of shooting and hits like a truck in melee as well. It also helps lower drops to ensure you go first and gives the priests some 3 inches of "free" movement thanks to how disembark works.

The termite is not a traditional transport, it's basically an IFV. An IFV that's as tough as a leman Russ and can deep strike, that's not something to take lightly

Also keep in mind that its really easy to surround it, kill it and every Priest inside because you cant place them. I think that drill is really risky. If your opponent goes first you have to put that thing somewhere where its not chargeable so Priests wont die through surrounding. This means that slow drill will move over a lot of Board to do something useful. Am I just thinking this wrong?

Iago40k wrote:
Also keep in mind that its really easy to surround it, kill it and every Priest inside because you cant place them. I think that drill is really risky. If your opponent goes first you have to put that thing somewhere where its not chargeable so Priests wont die through surrounding. This means that slow drill will move over a lot of Board to do something useful. Am I just thinking this wrong?

Edit:I cannot read, ignore this post.

 kinetoscopic wrote:
This just doesn’t quite seem worth it to me. The reduction in the Fulgurites potential squad size feels like a mighty big trade-off for a little protection and a different attack profile.

What about keeping the traditional Stygies blog and putting a Mars detachment of Vanguard or Corpsucarri in a drill for a pop-up Wrath of Mars on turn 2.

Electro-Priests are most vulnerable at two points:
1) Before they make their first unit kill, while they are in the open.
2) During Overwatch.

Drills eliminate both problems. Fulgurites are never in the open, and they don't really take Overwatch either, since they can come in behind the Drill.

Corpuscarii are strictly inferior because they don't benefit nearly as much from Zealous Congregation, and furthermore, they don't get the huge durability boost that Fulgurites do after making a unit kill.

Iago40k wrote:
Also keep in mind that its really easy to surround it, kill it and every Priest inside because you cant place them. I think that drill is really risky. If your opponent goes first you have to put that thing somewhere where its not chargeable so Priests wont die through surrounding. This means that slow drill will move over a lot of Board to do something useful. Am I just thinking this wrong?

I am not 100% sure, but I think 12 Priests can fit inside the destroyed Drill's footprint. Furthermore, if people want to cluster around a Drill, let's not forget that Machine Spirit's Revenge exists. Though I guess there is a risk if you're fighting a really big horde... in which case, I would advise you to de-risk the situation as best you can, such as by keeping a pair of Drills close together.