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Suzuteo wrote: Ohhh. Okay. I was not sure actually, but I had to make that clear for everyone.
Might want to cut down the quote. That is a wall of text I posted. Haha.
If and when we get a new codex, i really hope they rethink our Tech Priests as a whole. They should be calculated thinking machines not a repair bot. We could have Explorators, Logis, Rune-Priests, Transmechanics, Genetors, Artisans and Lexmechanics with the addition of the 2 we always have. Each one would do a different think and change our army through their skill set. I actually found the first Skitarii codex to be very flavourful and had good options, the Cult Mechanicus codex however wasnt that great. Then we got joined together and stripped us of a lot of our defining traits, it just feels like im playing a skeleton codex. Maybe this is because we were one of the first 5 codexes out, but i think we need an update. And thats not to sound greedy, we used to have scout moves to compensate for the lack of transports, we no longer have that. Our Doctrinas were just a buff each turn from alpha, beta and gamma. Now they are stratagems... Our Canticles are mainly crap and our dunestrider got downgraded to a stratagem youd never use!!!
Rant over haha
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/20 21:04:08
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
Ah. I think you are right to say that Noospheric Mindlock cannot be used with Infoslave Skull because it specifies the time that it can be used. But how about Plasma Specialists?
Use this Stratagem before a RYZA unit from your army attacks in the Shooting phase. Add 1 to the wound rolls made for all of that unit’s plasma weapons and increase the damage inflicted by any plasma weapon by 1...
So you think that even though the rules specify "as if it were the Shooting phase," because the Dominus is not affected by that rule, the unit shooting does not benefit from the aura? Hm...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/20 21:41:31
I concur the dominous effects shooting phase only not overwatch. Or strats that act like the shooting phase its just bad GW wording
Yes we need a few more units and a new codex would be nice.
I always felt the defining thing with skitarii was no HQ's and at present while there are rules that benefit skitarii there is nothing to benefit cult mechanicus.
However having just had my first post chapter approved/vigilous game vs orks and having effectively tabled them. (My opponent conceaded T3 with 2 units of boys a warboss and whatever the ork psyker is left)). I am now convinced we can hold our own in competative.
The only lists im unsure of are ironically pure knights where i am forced to play objective as i dont think i have enough AV and monster lists e.g. chaos demon mortarion/magnus princes because my grav/hoplite/eye of xi are less effective
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/20 21:59:36
No to Noospheric Mindlock
Yes to Plasma Specialists
??? to Lord of the Machine Cult
I am convinced that Implacable Determination works with Move! Move! Move! though due to that Tyranid ruling.
--
Anyone want to bombard 40kFAQ with these questions? I think this really needs answering.
Can the Plasma Specialists Stratagem be used when a unit shoots with the Infoslave Skull Stratagem?
When a unit shoots with the Infoslave Skull Stratagem, is it affected by Shooting phase aura abilities such as Belisarius Cawl's Lord of Mars or a Tech-Priest Dominus's Lord of the Machine Cult abilities?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/20 22:17:15
I am kinda stumped for LVO. Doing a lot of tinkering. I am pretty set on running some kind of admech spam tho just for feels. At this point it has to be for fluff. Lootas / castellan / chaosHordes / aeldari soup really are better armies in ITC.
Wulfey wrote: I am kinda stumped for LVO. Doing a lot of tinkering. I am pretty set on running some kind of admech spam tho just for feels. At this point it has to be for fluff. Lootas / castellan / chaosHordes / aeldari soup really are better armies in ITC.
So what did you try post CA and what worked and what not?
Is LVO allowing Vigilus Defiant content? I still think the AdMech Cohort+Maniple+Catachans list is going to be a strong contender for one of the top shooting armies. It lets you stack a ton of stratagems on already solid units.
Wulfey wrote: I am kinda stumped for LVO. Doing a lot of tinkering. I am pretty set on running some kind of admech spam tho just for feels. At this point it has to be for fluff. Lootas / castellan / chaosHordes / aeldari soup really are better armies in ITC.
What draws you to Admech then Wulfey? My Dark Eldar are such a better army but i always come back to Admech even though they arent as good. I think for me my opponent has to have a chance and have an enjoyable game for it to be fun for me, and whilst Admech may not seem the best for ITC and ETC events they have their own quirks and tricks that set them apart from the usual tournament lists. We can make our own Loota star with Ryza Kataphrons in a bunker, we can take a Castellan, we can make a Red Tide and Aeldari Soup well we can go Imperial Soup so. At the end of the day we all play specific races because we are attached to them and love them. If we all played the next best thing it'd be quite a boring game and very repetitive! Any getting top 10 / 5 / 3 is still something great, even if you dont claim first place. Its skill, sportsmanship, army's theme and a bit of luck that makes events, not some guy who relies purely on mathammer, min maxing and cheesy combos.
Play it you way buddy! i have 24k points worth or Orkz, will i ever use that much?! Hell no! All my Admech are Forge World Mechanicum conversions, is that affective? Hell no! Ive hand painted gold tribal patterns on every single dark eldar miniature i own! My advice is just take something you think works and looks great, who knows you may surprise someone and nab top 3.
No to Noospheric Mindlock
Yes to Plasma Specialists
??? to Lord of the Machine Cult
I am convinced that Implacable Determination works with Move! Move! Move! though due to that Tyranid ruling.
--
Anyone want to bombard 40kFAQ with these questions? I think this really needs answering.
Can the Plasma Specialists Stratagem be used when a unit shoots with the Infoslave Skull Stratagem?
When a unit shoots with the Infoslave Skull Stratagem, is it affected by Shooting phase aura abilities such as Belisarius Cawl's Lord of Mars or a Tech-Priest Dominus's Lord of the Machine Cult abilities?
Me personally, id say no they dont work unless its the shooting phase. But thats how i play it, i wouldnt stop anyone else doing it, however the only reason i see it that way is the ruling with how they ruled it in AoS, they dont allow abilities that affect the shooting phase to go off when something is done out of sequence as if it were that phase so in that way i dont do it in 40k.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 00:39:04
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
Wulfey wrote: I am kinda stumped for LVO. Doing a lot of tinkering. I am pretty set on running some kind of admech spam tho just for feels. At this point it has to be for fluff. Lootas / castellan / chaosHordes / aeldari soup really are better armies in ITC.
I don't think its that simple take the castellan list it was weakened in the late game at BFQ2 and people build to counter it.
Conversely people don't build or in many cases know how to counter admech.
The castellan list while still strong didn't improve in CA/vigilous while many other armies did that can only reduce its win%
Admech dropped 300pts and received special detatchments that huge it can only increase its win%
We certainly wern't good enough before but i dont think there is enough post CA/vigilous data to see how it has changed the meta/outcomes
Playing the new CA missions, they all seem to be more about board control than before, more in line with how many tourneys run it. In theory I like this, it's a good thing! But I'm stumped as to how I should list build and deploy against an army like the Nids I faced a few days back.
If I bunker up against a guaranteed first-turn charge, then they get to dominate the board for 2-3 turns and rack up endless VPs doing so, as it takes a while to weather successive charges even if I do end up wiping the melee units eventually. I just about managed to screen off a first turn charge last time but it cost me 20 skitarii and was mostly because the opponent was using no dakkafexes and half as many Hive Guard as usual - next time we play those screens will be shot off the board and the charge will reach the valuable stuff in all likelihood.
If I build an assault army that moves into the board, they all die even easier as they're not able to make any first turn charges themselves and tend to be glass cannons that will die to an opponent's charge.
So I guess I feel like Ad Mech is a gun platform (mobile is possible but weaker and not very fast) and a counter-charge army, and neither can compete with devastating first turn charges in a board control game? Or am I just list-building or deploying wrong?
No, you describe what is simply true. You won't have board control back until turn 3. But by then, if you haven't wiped out half of the guy's army, you are doing something wrong.
Again, pure Skitarii are much, much worse than pure Guardsmen or Skitarii+Guardsmen. This is because Skitarii lack force multipliers and in fact actually offer Guardsmen yet another force multiplier.
Vanguard+Catachans gives you a mobile force that lets you threaten other hordes in CC; they also run over GEQs since Catachans have 3x S4 attacks, yet the enemy will become T2 after the Vanguard aura takes effect. Order-spam Cadians or plasma-spam Vostroyans are also much better than Rangers or Vanguard.
Hoplites are great screens vs melee assault armies but large kataphrons or dakka kastellans in agripinaa are not so bad aswell as they will kill a few in overwatch
I would tend to wall across the board with guard on flank heavy shootets on the other and 30 hoplites in the middle. Loseingg 20 skitarii is nothing if it bys the rest a turn.
Most armies wont be taking opposing objectives till turn 2-3
I guess I just don’t have enough infantry haha. And am maybe not choosing the right targets.
Turn 1, 20 genestealers hit me. Turn 2 20 more would’ve hit if I didn’t kill the swarmlord, and dakkafexes would be incoming in future games. It seems to take all my screens and firepower and counter-charge to handle the flying hve tyrant, 40 GSs, swarmlord, and dakkafexes, leaving the Hive Guard and Exocrine to shoot my own shooting to bits, and the game ends with both sides mostly devastated but him sitting on a 10VP lead.
I guess I feel like first turn charge ability paired with great shooting means I’m always one step behind, and my entire army dies just dealing with half of the opponent’s. Wasn’t sure if the solution was more shooting, but seems like maybe it’s more bodies. Thanks!
Yes. You need enough infantry to give you the time to kill their anti-tank shooting and then their melee. Then you can re-establish board control with the surviving infantry. And this is no small ask. Tyranids are really good at killing GEQs. So you may have to hide them in ruins and such on turn one (assuming ITC rules) and then move them into place, either attacking their Gants or castling your Robots in a position with clear LOS on turn two. It all really depends on your board and the distance between the deployments.
They should be way more afraid of your Robots than you their Dakkafexes. I mean, we have less shots, but AP-2 and Wrath of Mars results in way greater final wound output than any Dakkafex or Flyrant could hope to achieve, even with Enhanced Senses and the stratagems to give one MC +1D and reroll failed wounds.
Roast Dakkafexes with Plasma Culverins. These are T7 W8 without any invulnerable save and half the range as your guns. Not a major shooting threat though, in my opinion. I would kill them last.
As for the Flyrants, Hive Guard, and Exocrine, which might actually be a greater threats, take them down with Robots and maybe Crawlers if you have them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 12:39:48
As someone who plays against Nids fairly often:
It's totally normal that you won't be scoring the first turn and also feel like you are losing pretty hard. But that is normal and after you repelled their assaults you have 3 turns or so left for boardcontrol.
Also I can't stress enough how good Dragoons are against Nids :p They are great to screen your artillery against Genestealers and bring a hefty counterpunch with them.
Bonus points if you run Stygies and he targets them with their -2 to hit.
What would you guys run in a 1750pts game with max 2 detachment and 1 needs to be a Batallion?
My first idea was to try a Brigade + Blood Angels, problem is that I can't make the BA a patrol due to the mandatory Batallion.
Second idea was dual Batallion: Maybe 1 with a mobile Stygies gunline and second either Guard or BA.
Also what's everyone's opinion on Kataphrons in a Stygies detachment? Yay or nay?
And to be quite blunt, every army has its weaknesses Pomguo. No single army will trash all lists there are out there. If genestealer rush type armies are you bane maybe just accept it. How often have you fought against Nids in a event and such? I only remember 2 instances where i have been put against nids this edition with my Admech, the first time it came out to a draw and the second time i got beaten by 2 VPs. I think its perfectly fine to admit that your army has a flaw. I would personally advice building towards killing Eldar, GEQ, Knights and Orkz. Anything else just dont plan your list towards.
Ive always found building a TAC list makes your army very weak, as you dont have enough rescources to push any one phase to a great outcome. Instead i always tend to build focused lists that specialist a certain aspect of the game. There was a quite famous quote in the 4th ed rule book from the Lion who describes that if you can force and control one or two aspects of an engagement you will have the upper hand and thats what i try to do, rule 2 phases like for example the shooting and psychic phase or movement and assault.
You should always make your opponent react to you and dont start a plan of action till turn 2. Turn 1 is too unpredictable and chaotic to accurately plan towards.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lash92 wrote: As someone who plays against Nids fairly often:
It's totally normal that you won't be scoring the first turn and also feel like you are losing pretty hard. But that is normal and after you repelled their assaults you have 3 turns or so left for boardcontrol.
Also I can't stress enough how good Dragoons are against Nids :p They are great to screen your artillery against Genestealers and bring a hefty counterpunch with them.
Bonus points if you run Stygies and he targets them with their -2 to hit.
What would you guys run in a 1750pts game with max 2 detachment and 1 needs to be a Batallion?
My first idea was to try a Brigade + Blood Angels, problem is that I can't make the BA a patrol due to the mandatory Batallion.
Second idea was dual Batallion: Maybe 1 with a mobile Stygies gunline and second either Guard or BA.
Also what's everyone's opinion on Kataphrons in a Stygies detachment? Yay or nay?
Stygies Kataphrons could work, you trade RAW damage output for better surviability. TBH i dont think we need BA allies anymore, whilst Smash Captains are good we can get more infantry on the board now for the new missions that have come out. Scouts only really do is screen out deepstrikers which you can still do with normal infantry turn 2 for cheaper. Maybe try out some Ravenwing now that they have there attack squadron, it gives mobility and more accurate fire power and the Talon Master isnt a slouch either.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 10:19:55
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
You did the math on Kataphrons IIRC. What´s your recommendation on Grav vs Plasma for Stygies?
Yeah also thought about Dark Angels, Sammael and Talonmaster provide quite good mobility, cant be shot at and have good shooting and melee.
Regarding Blood Angels: I have an idea which I want to test after christmas. Since there seems to be a shift towards board control why don´t we use BA for this. You could take a Batallion with 20 Intercessors, Corbulo, Captain Smash and a relic standard bearer (which all good cheaper).
This gives you:
- 40w with 3+ and 5+++ FnP - ability to heal / revive models
- 40 S5 CQC attacks with a +1 to wound, rerollings 1´s to hit AND to wound, exploding and +6 due to corbulo
- 20 to 40 shots
- Captain smash ofc ^^
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 11:29:03
For non-Ryza, Grav does better against anything low toughness or less than 3 wounds.
BA Intercessors don't last very long at all. The only way you make MEQs work in 8E is if you can hide them in ruins or deepstrike them, then get close enough to charge and grab them by the buckle. The best way for BA to do this is with Lemartes + Death Company or characters like Mephiston and Smash Captain.
lash92 wrote: You did the math on Kataphrons IIRC. What´s your recommendation on Grav vs Plasma for Stygies?
Yeah also thought about Dark Angels, Sammael and Talonmaster provide quite good mobility, cant be shot at and have good shooting and melee.
Regarding Blood Angels: I have an idea which I want to test after christmas. Since there seems to be a shift towards board control why don´t we use BA for this. You could take a Batallion with 20 Intercessors, Corbulo, Captain Smash and a relic standard bearer (which all good cheaper).
This gives you:
- 40w with 3+ and 5+++ FnP - ability to heal / revive models
- 40 S5 CQC attacks with a +1 to wound, rerollings 1´s to hit AND to wound, exploding and +6 due to corbulo
- 20 to 40 shots
- Captain smash ofc ^^
Yeah that could work! Give it a try In regards to plasma over grav, i think it tends to equal out when playing non Ryza Destroyers. The plasma is better vs a wider scope of targets and the grav is better vs more infantry and light vehicles like dark eldar and harlies. All depends what you think you will fight most with your army.
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
To me Plasma is a great all purpose option if you're not sure what you're up against. If your meta typically has lots of infantry and the rest of your army has enough anti tank, grav will serve you well.
In terms of which FW is best for Kataphrons, that's a question I'm considering as well. I'd say it somewhat depends on how the rest of your army is benefiting, but if your meta has a lot of assault armies and not too many gunlines, Stygies might not be the best option. If the opposite is true or if it's more of a mix, Stygies is a good choice. Ryza is good if you want to get the most out of your Plasma Destroyers and if you happen to have some assault elements of your own such as Dragoons or Fulgurites and you prefer playing more offensively. Graia is also worth mentioning since they can deny psykers and the WL trait helps if your Kataphrons are tied up in combat with horde infantry.
Suzuteo wrote: Yes. You need enough infantry to give you the time to kill their anti-tank shooting and then their melee. Then you can re-establish board control with the surviving infantry. And this is no small ask. Tyranids are really good at killing GEQs. So you may have to hide them in ruins and such on turn one (assuming ITC rules) and then move them into place, either attacking their Gants or castling your Robots in a position with clear LOS on turn two. It all really depends on your board and the distance between the deployments.
They should be way more afraid of your Robots than you their Dakkafexes. I mean, we have less shots, but AP-2 and Wrath of Mars results in way greater final wound output than any Dakkafex or Flyrant could hope to achieve, even with Enhanced Senses and the stratagems to give one MC +1D and reroll failed wounds.
Roast Dakkafexes with Plasma Culverins. These are T7 W8 without any invulnerable save and half the range as your guns. Not a major shooting threat though, in my opinion. I would kill them last.
As for the Flyrants, Hive Guard, and Exocrine, which might actually be a greater threats, take them down with Robots and maybe Crawlers if you have them.
I’m mainly bothered by the dakkafexes because they can clear my screens turn 1 to let the genestealers charge whatever they want - and basically my whole army is stuff that doesn’t do well being charged - fulgurites and dragoons die easily to stealers and so never get to hit back very hard if at all, armigers and onagers much the same. I think I’d probably slap 5 incendine+phosphor kastelans on the frontline but then they’d probably just be avoided and shot at later in the game while the stealers chew through everything else. Maybe Corpuscarii might do better, due to some overwatch and trading AP and multidamage on the Fulgurites for taser hits.
Anyway thanks all for the advice, I appreciate it! It may be that I’ve simply built a list that can’t handle this type of constant rush hybrid monster+elite melee list with reasonable shooting pressure. I do better against other lists but our meta in Beijing is either all tanks or all horde so it’s easier to just slap a solid firebase down and blow it away.
I would always go plasma, as my army already can deal with mass infantry and t6 and below units. Plasma allows me to deal with t7 units alot more effectively instead of relying on just Onagers and Kastelans.
I agree with Mr.Funktastic, Stygies is alright for them but not the best suited for them. Instead i would go Graia, Metallica or Mars for them if you are not going to have them as Ryza Plasma Specialists.
The only time id use Grav is with Agripinaa due to better overwatch and the possible Eye going off but you all know my opinion on that Forge World haha! XD Like the above said, if you see yourself fighting fast CC armies, go grav, in any other case go plasma.
Suzuteo wrote: Yes. You need enough infantry to give you the time to kill their anti-tank shooting and then their melee. Then you can re-establish board control with the surviving infantry. And this is no small ask. Tyranids are really good at killing GEQs. So you may have to hide them in ruins and such on turn one (assuming ITC rules) and then move them into place, either attacking their Gants or castling your Robots in a position with clear LOS on turn two. It all really depends on your board and the distance between the deployments.
They should be way more afraid of your Robots than you their Dakkafexes. I mean, we have less shots, but AP-2 and Wrath of Mars results in way greater final wound output than any Dakkafex or Flyrant could hope to achieve, even with Enhanced Senses and the stratagems to give one MC +1D and reroll failed wounds.
Roast Dakkafexes with Plasma Culverins. These are T7 W8 without any invulnerable save and half the range as your guns. Not a major shooting threat though, in my opinion. I would kill them last.
As for the Flyrants, Hive Guard, and Exocrine, which might actually be a greater threats, take them down with Robots and maybe Crawlers if you have them.
I’m mainly bothered by the dakkafexes because they can clear my screens turn 1 to let the genestealers charge whatever they want - and basically my whole army is stuff that doesn’t do well being charged - fulgurites and dragoons die easily to stealers and so never get to hit back very hard if at all, armigers and onagers much the same. I think I’d probably slap 5 incendine+phosphor kastelans on the frontline but then they’d probably just be avoided and shot at later in the game while the stealers chew through everything else. Maybe Corpuscarii might do better, due to some overwatch and trading AP and multidamage on the Fulgurites for taser hits.
Anyway thanks all for the advice, I appreciate it! It may be that I’ve simply built a list that can’t handle this type of constant rush hybrid monster+elite melee list with reasonable shooting pressure. I do better against other lists but our meta in Beijing is either all tanks or all horde so it’s easier to just slap a solid firebase down and blow it away.
Havent Dakkafexes only got a 18" range with a 7" move? If they advance they are at -1 to hit. So either 5+ to hit or 4+ with enhanced senses. If you deploy atleast 26" away from the fexes i dont see that as being an issue. Usually people dont deploy Carnifexes on the 24" line anyway as they have bad melee without CC weapons and are relatively squishy even with sporecysts/ malanphropes. You do concede board conrol to that player but thats how it is vs all horde armies so you just have to make up for it in the mid to late game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 14:09:43
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
And i would strongly consider aggripinaa grav for the strat and eye both of which improve it though ryza plasma is the other strong choice. Stygies is variable its great in a long distance shoot off but doesnt help vs an army that closes the gap quickly
Just remember the eye only works against vehicles so in those games vs Tyranids and Daemons (excluding soul grinders) it will have no affect if you have to keep the same relic throughout the event.
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
deffrekka wrote: Just remember the eye only works against vehicles so in those games vs Tyranids and Daemons (excluding soul grinders) it will have no affect if you have to keep the same relic throughout the event.
In those games you just dont take it- its always an extra relic for that reason however you encounter 3-4 list with vehicles for every list without so if forced to preselect you take it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/21 19:34:38
Would appreciate some feedback on my post CA 1750 AdMech plus BA combo. AdMech provides a solid firebase and AA, while BA act as durable boardcontrol due to combining 2 wounds with a 5+ FnP and an Apothecary.
I ran Mephiston at socal open. I lovingly crafted him out of 4 different kits from leftover marines who were non-competitive. He wet the bed every game at 145 points. He was either laughably too slow because he didn't get his powers off, or he insta died to some melta / hi-AP junk before making combat. At 160 points I would never take him over a 124 point smash captain, or even better, a 100 point lemartes. I think he did okay 1 game, but I had already won by a mile.
Smash captains can get really lucky with their 3++ and win you games. There just isn't a good way to turn 10CP into a dead LOW with mephiston. And he isn't even good at clearing scouting infantry groups like lemartes.
Pomguo wrote: I’m mainly bothered by the dakkafexes because they can clear my screens turn 1 to let the genestealers charge whatever they want - and basically my whole army is stuff that doesn’t do well being charged - fulgurites and dragoons die easily to stealers and so never get to hit back very hard if at all, armigers and onagers much the same. I think I’d probably slap 5 incendine+phosphor kastelans on the frontline but then they’d probably just be avoided and shot at later in the game while the stealers chew through everything else. Maybe Corpuscarii might do better, due to some overwatch and trading AP and multidamage on the Fulgurites for taser hits.
Anyway thanks all for the advice, I appreciate it! It may be that I’ve simply built a list that can’t handle this type of constant rush hybrid monster+elite melee list with reasonable shooting pressure. I do better against other lists but our meta in Beijing is either all tanks or all horde so it’s easier to just slap a solid firebase down and blow it away.
If you're playing ITC rules, just cram your melee infantry into or behind ruins. Dakkafexes rarely will be in range before your 36" guns will be in range of them. And Kraken Genestealers can't reach you on turn one. Well, unless you misdeploy.
The only situations where you would just shoot the Genestealers first and foremost are forced short deployments, which I don't think exist in ITC. Anyhow, in this case, I would charge the Genestealers with my Vanguard+Catachans. Point for point, Vanguard+Catachans are better at melee against Genestealers.
Wulfey wrote: I ran Mephiston at socal open. I lovingly crafted him out of 4 different kits from leftover marines who were non-competitive. He wet the bed every game at 145 points. He was either laughably too slow because he didn't get his powers off, or he insta died to some melta / hi-AP junk before making combat. At 160 points I would never take him over a 124 point smash captain, or even better, a 100 point lemartes. I think he did okay 1 game, but I had already won by a mile.
Smash captains can get really lucky with their 3++ and win you games. There just isn't a good way to turn 10CP into a dead LOW with mephiston. And he isn't even good at clearing scouting infantry groups like lemartes.
Mm... psychic can be hit or miss. The real problem is that Mephiston is much less powerful as a beatstick against other psychic armies. But you're right. 160 points is getting a bit steep.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/21 21:36:56
So I kept thinking about the various MARS lists and dakkabots just kept feeling to limiting. They are a porphyrions worth of points (after cawl) that don't feel like they can get their points back. For sure the MARS COHORT list is in a better place than dakkabots were a month ago. But it struggles to deal damage to big things (even tho big things are kind of dying down now ... so ... hmmm ... ). I don't really like going heavy on guard infantry because I don't think it gets really efficient without a serious point investment into support characters.
I am narrowing down to two lists for LVO. I must run majority admech if I am playing to win best 'admech'.
List#1 - 2x MARS battalion + catachan arty spearhead
Spoiler:
2x MARS battalions (1x cohort detach)
Cawl + 3x Engis
1x10 infiltrators
6x5 rangers
3x1 icarus with stubbers
1x6 dakkabots
CATA spearhead (arty detach)
CC + Wyvern + 2x3 mortar teams
MARS list is a traditional mars shooting list but it happens to be more mobile than usual thanks to the COHORT detachment strategem. This list will struggle against a castellan and a turn1 deepstrike daemons and characters melee list, but is tuned to have answers to Eldar lists and other balanced armies. The tiny Wyvern detachment is specifically there to turn 4CP into a unit of dead dark reapers in cover. The MARS list has almost no melee and will struggle once tied up. But I like its chances against non-porphyrion shooting lists.
The STYGIES list can take on more horde melee lists that can make guaranteed turn 1 charges. The castellan is broadly more flexible than the dakkabots. The idea with this list is that the dragoons go out and do their things for a few turns and then the castellan lives all game and wins on attrition.
Both of these lists feel worse than any CATACHAN brigade, but I really want that majority admech status.
Hrm, hadn’t realised the distances were so small. In fact, last game I deployed a thin screen 12” back from my deployment zone’s edge to force the exocrine to move and shoot (for the -1 but also to cost it its 2x shots), so if next time he brought dallafexes they still wouldn’t help with such a screen. Hive guard also only have 36” range, so I’m not sure if that was played wrong.
So theoretically if I set up, say, 2x20 Hoplites 12.5” back from the deplpyment edge in overlapping lines I could block the first turn charge guaranteed. But would have to leave anything else a further 5” or 6” back from that line to avoid consolidation + piling in + fight again from reaching them. Exocrine would still move 6” on turn 1 and then be able to shoot any counter-charged units on turn 2 without moving, unless the second move in the fight phase was used on the stealers to retreat instead of attack. Hive guard would need to advance turn 1 to get in range. So I guess then turn 2 I’d need to be able to kill the swarmlord and first stealer blob without opening myself up to any fire I couldn’t also cripple that turn. Exocrine’s T8 probably means Ironstriders again!
@Suzuteo It’s hard to deploy your whole army out of kraken genestealer charge range - they get a pretty high likelihood of a 13” or 14” advancing in the movement phase which can be boosted to an 18” or 20” advance using a strat, and then they get to do another 13” or 14” advance in the shooting phase, all before their 12” charge. 31-34” movement before the charge phase crosses no man’s land and then some, leaving them pretty able to charge at the very least your screens. Thus my hummimg and hawing about screens (which would probably be solved with Catachans as suggested, but I can’t bring myself to plop down cash on those ugly old figs just yet, let alone paint three dozen of them!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/22 00:50:14
i have 24k points worth or Orkz, will i ever use that much?! Hell no! All my Admech are Forge World Mechanicum conversions, is that affective? Hell no! Ive hand painted gold tribal patterns on every single dark eldar miniature i own! My advice is just take something you think works and looks great, who knows you may surprise someone and nab top 3. 
