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 lash92 wrote:
@ Suzuteo:
I´m an avid Stygies player so I can use them pretty good on the offensive when I play against an enemy who doesn´t need to be screened out.

@ Funktastic:
Sure a 4+ is not the world, but you got 6W on each and the real kicker is the T6 so those Stealers only will be wounding you on 5+.
How is the rest of your list looking btw?

I have a couple of variants of my list but here's one with Fulgurites and Drill:



I also have some Dakkabots in case I wanted to trade off mobility and commit more to the gunline playstyle and I can also swap out the Warden of a Styrix or other Knight variants.

That new GSC terrain drill platform is ripe for converting too

Octovol wrote:
That new GSC terrain drill platform is ripe for converting too

Here comes cheaper Termite Drills

I don’t think Corpuscarii are quite as bad as folks have said. Deploy them properly and they’ll be out of range of massed anti-infantry shooting long enough for them to screen first and potentially second turn chargers, and their ability to take down irritants like those bloody Dark Eldar birds is unrivalled in a unit that cheap. Especially given they’ll do a bunch of hits even in overwatch. They especially synergize well with Graia’s Warlord trait letting them shoot in close combat. Fantastic anti-genestealer unit.

Also imo they’re one of our best options in a drill - far more reliable than Fulgurites, given their shooting will punch a hole in stuff even if the charge is failed.

 Aaranis wrote:

Octovol wrote:
That new GSC terrain drill platform is ripe for converting too

Here comes cheaper Termite Drills

This already does an excellent job unless you are playing at GW stores exclusively, particular for someone who likes Skaven anyway ^^:
https://www.waylandgames.co.uk/veer-myn/49757-veer-myn-tunneller

It's super cheap and pretty much has the exact same dimensions as the actual FW Termite, something that will be harder to do with the terrain drill.

After much sturm and drang, I have settled on a list that I am at least running next weekend at at least one RTT. I think this is my LVO list. My gaming group guys have been backing me up on this as plausible. It isn't like Nick's 50 priest and 3 drills and 1x6 ballistari list, but I am a soup player so I am going cross codex for as much power as I can.

MARS battalion
Cawl + Enginseer (WLT either 6+/6+ or +1 to repair and reroll in fight phase relic)
2x10 Infiltrators
3x5 rangers
3x1 Icarus Onagers

CATACHAN battalion
Straken + Commander + Priest
6x10 guardsmen

RAVEN SHD
1x Castellan 4x missiles (exalted court + relic strat)

2000 points after various bolters on some models. 11CP after strategem spends. Sometimes 10CP if i put Kurov's onto the company commander.
Versus Lootas the castellan can go (ignore -1 / 2+ armor).
Versus another castellan I can heal mine.
Versus eldar .. well ... I still like a castellan over the dakkabots.
The icarus are really cheap now and are almost helverins, but repairable and more accurate.
Unlike a normal admech list, this one has 60 catachans.
And InControl mentioned me by name in a podcast as running 30 infiltrators, so whatever I bring needs at least the 20 I have.

@Wulfey
One thing I'd worry about is your lack of anti-Psychic. If you make the Rangers into Graia, you have a 75% chance to cancel out Doom, which they need to have any prayer of killing that Castellan. Given the Enginseer usually takes Necromechanic WLT and babysits the Castellan, he is also a good candidate for Graia. Obviously, Eldar can play around the Graia units, but at a minimum, it limits the geography of the board for Eldar, which makes a huge difference.

Also, do the Guardsmen have Mortars? You might want those to help pick off Drones.

Otherwise, it looks pretty good to me.

When that new Tech-Priest comes out, I might buy two boxes to get my own unit of Infiltrators. That or I kitbash some out of Skaven. (I got a box of Slavenblight Scramblers for free and was thinking of kitbashing them AdMech-style.)

Cawl is kinda wasted here honestly. Even if Icaruses are hitting on 4s a lot of the time, there’s still only 30 shots between them and so I don’t think his 100 points over rerolling 1s is cost-effective enough for my tastes. I might lean towards Stygies instead to give them that extra survivability.

Wulfey wrote:
After much sturm and drang, I have settled on a list that I am at least running next weekend at at least one RTT. I think this is my LVO list. My gaming group guys have been backing me up on this as plausible. It isn't like Nick's 50 priest and 3 drills and 1x6 ballistari list, but I am a soup player so I am going cross codex for as much power as I can.

MARS battalion
Cawl + Enginseer (WLT either 6+/6+ or +1 to repair and reroll in fight phase relic)
2x10 Infiltrators
3x5 rangers
3x1 Icarus Onagers

CATACHAN battalion
Straken + Commander + Priest
6x10 guardsmen

RAVEN SHD
1x Castellan 4x missiles (exalted court + relic strat)

2000 points after various bolters on some models. 11CP after strategem spends. Sometimes 10CP if i put Kurov's onto the company commander.
Versus Lootas the castellan can go (ignore -1 / 2+ armor).
Versus another castellan I can heal mine.
Versus eldar .. well ... I still like a castellan over the dakkabots.
The icarus are really cheap now and are almost helverins, but repairable and more accurate.
Unlike a normal admech list, this one has 60 catachans.
And InControl mentioned me by name in a podcast as running 30 infiltrators, so whatever I bring needs at least the 20 I have.

best poster in this thread

Pomguo wrote:
Cawl is kinda wasted here honestly. Even if Icaruses are hitting on 4s a lot of the time, there’s still only 30 shots between them and so I don’t think his 100 points over rerolling 1s is cost-effective enough for my tastes. I might lean towards Stygies instead to give them that extra survivability.

A good alternative is Agripinaa Dominus with the Eye, but I can see the argument for Cawl in a pure Mars too. -2 to hit is annoying as hell to deal with. Furthermore, you can always DS the Infiltrators inside the aura radius to get rerolls ontop of the Wrath of Mars and Doctrina.

Pomguo wrote:
Cawl is kinda wasted here honestly. Even if Icaruses are hitting on 4s a lot of the time, there’s still only 30 shots between them and so I don’t think his 100 points over rerolling 1s is cost-effective enough for my tastes. I might lean towards Stygies instead to give them that extra survivability.

Cawl helps with the accuracy of Icarus Arrays so much I'd day it would be worth the extra 100 points.

My read on keeping Cawl in there is that he is probably worth 50 points over the TDP to help the icarus shoot better. If I can can get him into combat, then he makes up his points easy. If it is a shooting gallery, then he was 50 wasted points that could have been some kind of anti psychic shenanigans. EDIT: or I guess more priests somehow?

If I wanted GRAIA, the best way to do it is probably to just make the Enginseer in the MARS detachment into GRAIA and give up the second canticle dice since that dogma blows.

I am skeptical on STYGIES because WRATH from the infiltrators are the big payoff of this list. If I go STYGIES, then i need to go all STYGIES and that results in a lot less powerful shooting. Nick's list relied on STYGIES and he went all in on it to make it work. I think a STYGIES list would not have the same units I have. Priests really get a lot out of -1 and don't get much out of WRATH. EDIT: this is where Nick's list works. He has a lot of priests. Even with his list ... if he could soup ... why not take a castellan over the ballistari? What makes the castellan so dominating is that if you fail to kill it in one volley, it shoots you back it full effectiveness. If you do half the wounds to the dragoon ball then half its firepower is gone.

There are two units that aren't in this list that I should mention:

Dakkabots - the castellan is just too ominpresent to make these playable. I have to basically concede if I run up against one. But I saw a castellan in like 1/4 the socal open lists and I think castellans were not hurt by CA. With the admech point drops that list up there has about 222 extra admech points and can support the castellan in ways no other list can. And they are super vulnerable to ITC 6" pile in shenanigans. While dakkabots are resistant to lootas for 1 turn, as soon as they plant feet they will be erased in the next volley because they will be making their saves on a 3+. Anything that isn't saving on a 2+ is going to get loota erased.

Dragoons - lootas and reapers have ruined dragoons. If your opponent can ignore modifiers, then these things are bait. I think Nick Nanavati is overrelying on that -1 to keep his bastilari ball up. I also dont buy the math on the lascannons. I think he is onto something with the 50 priests and the drills, but MARS infiltrators don't cost CP to do that job and WRATH make infiltrators have a unique threat profile against otherwise hard targets. EDIT: note how Nick just leaves the STYGIES drills right on the table. Those things are beef tanks that can shoot and fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

This is the Nick charity hammer info. He ran a pure admech list for 200$.


This is the list


THis is a heavy wallethammer list. You need 50 priests and 3 drills.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was remembering that the difference between Cawl and a Dominus is 100 points, not 50?

As for infiltrators, I don’t think I’ve played a single game where I’ve deepstriked infiltrators anywhere near cawl, but that might be a difference between our opponents haha.

I planned a list like this two FAQs ago. Then they changed infiltration. So now I have 27 Fulgurites and 3 primed Drills sitting on my "To Paint" table. Boycotted buying Forge World after that.

Comments about the match itself:
-I have the same tape measure as Nick. It's not very handy in tight spaces. =\
-Important rules mistake that they caught later: the Fulgurites can disembark immediately. They just don't want to usually.
-They're probably friends that are used to playing one another, but table manners are horrifying. There was a big cup of coffee just sitting there on the table. They're also just man-handling some models. And I know the Drills aren't supposed to have bases, but those things silently scream "I am going to roll over and snap some Skitarii's antennae off." Super funny how they mention that Drills should be based later too.
-Wall of Drills is funny. Totally the right move against Genestealers though. However, if Nick brought Robots with Guard, John would not be able to make these sorts of moves at all.
-Nick's biggest mistake was not unloading his Fulgurites sooner. It's true that they are devastating on the charge, but as soon as he saw the GS behind him, he should have moved to his priority objective, dropped the unit behind the Drill (to form a long wall), and used Acquisition At Any Cost. I chalk this up to him not knowing his stratagems well. Which is a huge problem, since AdMech is an army very reliant on them.
-Surprised he did not move his Ironstriders more, given how much he complains about not being able to move Robots. But he's playing against Nids, so it's a bit futile anyway.

Lessons: Bring Robots (or Mars Infiltrators). Bring infantry. Use table edges when castling. Don't forget about Acquisition At Any Cost.

Pomguo wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was remembering that the difference between Cawl and a Dominus is 100 points, not 50?

As for infiltrators, I don’t think I’ve played a single game where I’ve deepstriked infiltrators anywhere near cawl, but that might be a difference between our opponents haha.

Yeah I am saying he is a 100 point upgrade. So he could be 100 points of models, or he could be 100 points of aura and his melee capability over a TPD. I rate his contribution to icarus firepower at about 50-75 points. He increases their hits against ground targets by 30% over the rerolls 1s of a TPD. 30% of 330 is about 96. Another icarus (if I could get one) is 110. So his aura is adding almost another icarus in firepower over the RR1 of a TPD. If Cawl makes combat, then he is fore sure better than a TPD and will be worth the extra 100 points. If he ever provides his aura to the infiltrators, then he made his points for sure. But there can be games where I insta lose an icarus and the infiltrators are never in range and cawl never makes combat and then I would have been better off with 100 points of more ranger bodies or something.

EDIT: yeah the salt is real on those damn drills Suzeteo. I didn't trust GW enough to give them that much money for that list. The drills are still really good just as tanks at 134. They have a good mix of bolter fire and T8 and -1 to hit and bizarrely strong melee attacks. But It is absurd what they want for those drills. I still shelled full retail for my infiltrators, but I do like the models.

Really hit%

Icarus base 66%
Tpd 77%
Cawl 88%

U02dah4 wrote:
Really hit%

Icarus base 66%
Tpd 77%
Cawl 88%

Ignoring the body, in your stated example here, Cawl improves the value of a Crawler against -1 to hit by 1/6 of their value. So 336/6 = 56 points...

 Suzuteo wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Really hit%

Icarus base 66%
Tpd 77%
Cawl 88%

Ignoring the body, in your stated example here, Cawl improves the value of a Crawler against -1 to hit by 1/6 of their value. So 336/6 = 56 points...

Yeah that is pretty close to my gut guess. I was working off an assumption of 4+ RR1 as the baseline [alaitoc flyer or non-FLY ground target]. In the best target case (2+ RR1, Tau drones), Cawl isn't doing anything. I am very bullish on icarus onagers right now because they bring so many wounds to shoot at for 112 points. When they were 135 they kinda didn't have the firepower for what they cost. That 112 points makes them sooooo good from a wounds per point perspective [yeah STYGIES ones are off the charts tanky]. 10 points per wound on 2+/5++ T7 is a steal. Any time they are getting shot, great! They aren't shooting something more point dense. My thinking with Cawl here is that he helps the icarus out when it really needs it: against big negative modifiers. On a 3+ RR1s his value isn't that great over a TPD (only rerolling the 2s over the TPD). Versus a 4+ RR1s cawl starts looking good. On 5+ rerolling1s cawl is like 40% hit rate boost.

I thought they were good at 135 points because they didn't require me to feed them CPs to output damage and were quite a durable tank with a big dinner platter base to stop charges/pile-in/consolidation. So a nice rounding out of the firebase. And they fulfilled the tax for a Spearhead. At 112... wow. That is quite a steal, actually.

I actually don't think Stygies enhance the tankiness of the Crawlers that much, so I would not shy from giving it up for better damage output. Again, it's the meta. Anti-vehicle weapons that ignore that minus to hit by either getting within 12" or just have that feature built into the model are very popular right now. Merely being T7 2+/5++RR1 is actually the primary reason; you can absorb bolter rounds for days, and plasma used to be the most common S8 weapon, but they are a lot less popular due to minus to hit. Plus, most armies actually would not consider your Crawlers to be the primary threat anyway. As you said, if they are shooting it, it's always a win.

 Suzuteo wrote:

I actually don't think Stygies enhance the tankiness of the Crawlers that much, so I would not shy from giving it up for better damage output. Again, it's the meta. Anti-vehicle weapons that ignore that minus to hit by either getting within 12" or just have that feature built into the model are very popular right now. Merely being T7 2+/5++RR1 is actually the primary reason; you can absorb bolter rounds for days, and plasma used to be the most common S8 weapon, but they are a lot less popular due to minus to hit. Plus, most armies actually would not consider your Crawlers to be the primary threat anyway. As you said, if they are shooting it, it's always a win.

4+ to hit armies are still popular though, -1 to hit really screws Guard (particularly Baneblades and artillery) as well as Tau over pretty hard (good luck for them to get 5 MLs on more than one unit if they either only have a few Fireblades and Marksmen, or their Pathfinders for mass output only hit on 5+) and let's not even get started on Orks.

The other thing is that most guns shooting at Dunecrawlers will usually be the low number of shots, high damage AT variety. And those guns really feel it if they go from hitting on 3+ to hitting on 4+ (2/3 chance to hit going down to 50/50 is significant considering weapon cost). Any miss is completely negated damage after all. Throw the guaranteed cover bonus in the first two turns and (boosted) inv. saves on top and Crabs and particularly Kastelans going second (so still in Aegis mode) become downright nasty to take down. Also it's the single best defense Kataphron Destroyers will be getting if they do end up getting shot at. And then there's the Dragoons...

Remember that the great thing about all the stacked defensive buffs is that if the other player does not manage to focus fire a Dunecrawler down to 0 wounds, you'll just repair it up again with TWO repair rolls thanks to that nice strategem, especially if Arkhan's pimp stick is involved as well. This also applies to Dakkabots as well to a lesser degree, a Kastelan surviving with one or two wounds is better than having a dead Kastelan when your shooting phase rolls around.

I'm still pretty happy running mono-Stygies, even with gimped infiltration strategem (well, at least it can still be used on chickens and for doing some deployment shenigans) the FW trait is still THAT good. And most importantly it requires zero point investment or particular list builds to make it work, almost any Admech list benefits from it big time.

I've been working on a list idea! You only start the game with 9CP usable but that was enough most of the time.

The idea is that with Metallicas warlord trait you can leave combat and still shoot, the Dakkabots and Kataphron have an absolutely huge footprint and traditionally the weakness with gunlines is that if anything gets to melee you automatically lose 500pts per unit. The new stratagem lets you get a big threat range on the Incendine Combustors and makes for very deadly overwatch, after which the survivors can leave and shoot again.

I could tag the Kataphrons as Ryza as they would do 50% more damage but 9x 60mm bases would be hard to screen, and expecting Orks and GSC to be in melee rather quickly. Custodes bikes, rhino rush etc. Any dedicated melee unit will probably crush them but they'll likely have 4++ and at 3w each they can still live!

The Bunker is there to clown-car all 9 Kataphron and a Dominus inside of in case you lose turn 1. Its so far proved valuable vs heavy gunlines who have to go through it first. It can br dropped for another basic batallion though for 5 more CP and bodies, or drop some screen for a 3rd Dunecrawler.

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards

6x Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

4x Servitors

Kataphron Destroyers [30 PL, 432pts]
9x Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Vanguards

Fortification Network
Imperial Bunker

I've got a local 2k tournament coming in the next month, I am also slowly preparing for starting in majors. I would be grateful to point out the flaws in my list.

The tournament is held in ETC style (Maelstorm/Eternal missions mix). There are a few house rules that'd be important to mention:
- forests block LoS "to the sky" and give a -2" penalty to charge if any part of any model in the unit is crossing the forest
- ground floor is blind
- everyone has a 3CP Vect-like stratagem that goes off on 4+ (you can vect this vect for vectception ;P )
- everyone has a 3CP Deny the Witch stratagem that goes off on 4+

The meta is featuring a freaking lot of Knights, with Castelan/IG as my wretched nemesis. As it is more and more prevalent, I guess I need to bring a solid counter. I don't have a Castellan (that's why there's a Crusader), and I don't have (neither I intend to have) any kind of IG in my army. One day I might break, but that's how I want to roll for now.

The core idea of the list below - DSing Kastelans and Corpuscarii with a Stygies/Crusader backline shooting. Corps task is to clear the room for Kastelans to charge in, Robots wipe whatever remains from the screen, and using fight twice protocol they jump onto another target locking it in the combat. Corps either charge in to help (if there's a risk of tarpitting Kastelans), or go to contest the objective nearby. Kastelans ultimate goal is to trap the Dominus in combat, hopefully after having his fighting abilities degraded to WS5+ with a Krast Crusader.
Graia infantry to deny the Doom with my own stratagem + the tournament's stratagem if I fail. Icarus to deal with Valkyries (almost every IG player brings at least one), Ravagers, Bikes, and so on.

Stygies Battalion
TPD (Macrostubber, Vokite); Necromechanic
TPE
Tesco Rangers
5x Rangers w/2x Transuranic
5x Rangers w/2x Transuranic

3x Icarus Onagers

Mixed Battalion
Cybernetica Cohort
2x TPE
5x Tesco Graia Rangers
5x Tesco Graia Rangers
5x Tesco Graia Rangers

10x Lucius Corpuscarii
10x Lucius Corpuscarii
Lucius Datasmith

4x Lucius Fistelans w/ flamer

SHA Krast
Crusader; RFBC; Ion Bulwark, Headman's Mark

Rinion wrote:
I've been working on a list idea! You only start the game with 9CP usable but that was enough most of the time.

The idea is that with Metallicas warlord trait you can leave combat and still shoot, the Dakkabots and Kataphron have an absolutely huge footprint and traditionally the weakness with gunlines is that if anything gets to melee you automatically lose 500pts per unit. The new stratagem lets you get a big threat range on the Incendine Combustors and makes for very deadly overwatch, after which the survivors can leave and shoot again.

I could tag the Kataphrons as Ryza as they would do 50% more damage but 9x 60mm bases would be hard to screen, and expecting Orks and GSC to be in melee rather quickly. Custodes bikes, rhino rush etc. Any dedicated melee unit will probably crush them but they'll likely have 4++ and at 3w each they can still live!

The Bunker is there to clown-car all 9 Kataphron and a Dominus inside of in case you lose turn 1. Its so far proved valuable vs heavy gunlines who have to go through it first. It can br dropped for another basic batallion though for 5 more CP and bodies, or drop some screen for a 3rd Dunecrawler.

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards

6x Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

4x Servitors

Kataphron Destroyers [30 PL, 432pts]
9x Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Vanguards

Fortification Network
Imperial Bunker

If your going to do this swap the bunker for a plasma oblit or bastion that way they can stay protected and fire and you get value out of it when you go 1st.

I love the AdMech bunker tactic. Brilliant with Electro Priests too, who go from "easily shot off the board immediately" to "OH GOD I FORGOT THAT WASN'T SCENERY!" as they get out within 3", move 6" and charge. Their threat bubble is amazing.

Such a shame a fortification takes a whole detachment :(

Rinion wrote:
I've been working on a list idea! You only start the game with 9CP usable but that was enough most of the time.

The idea is that with Metallicas warlord trait you can leave combat and still shoot, the Dakkabots and Kataphron have an absolutely huge footprint and traditionally the weakness with gunlines is that if anything gets to melee you automatically lose 500pts per unit. The new stratagem lets you get a big threat range on the Incendine Combustors and makes for very deadly overwatch, after which the survivors can leave and shoot again.

I could tag the Kataphrons as Ryza as they would do 50% more damage but 9x 60mm bases would be hard to screen, and expecting Orks and GSC to be in melee rather quickly. Custodes bikes, rhino rush etc. Any dedicated melee unit will probably crush them but they'll likely have 4++ and at 3w each they can still live!

The Bunker is there to clown-car all 9 Kataphron and a Dominus inside of in case you lose turn 1. Its so far proved valuable vs heavy gunlines who have to go through it first. It can br dropped for another basic batallion though for 5 more CP and bodies, or drop some screen for a 3rd Dunecrawler.

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards

6x Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

4x Servitors

Kataphron Destroyers [30 PL, 432pts]
9x Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Vanguards

Fortification Network
Imperial Bunker

Are you making use of both vigilus formations or just the robot one? Reason I ask is all you'd need to do is drop one squad of vanguard and you'd have 8 Servitors to use as respawn fodder. So not only do you get utility and potential to return a dead Kataphron, you also get 3 more bodies out of the deal that could be used to help with deepstrike denial, screen, hold objectives, or even do a bit of melee in a pinch.

Interested to see how it does. I don't physically own the vigilus book yet and don't want to be the guy who starts the formation arms race at my store or else I'd already be trying it. I also need 2-4 more robots before I can do this style of list properly. So far I own 6 destroyers and 2 kastelan, not quite enough to commit to the level of bots this list would need.

What is your plan for models that can ignore overwatch, like blood Angels? I would consider that one of the most dangerous issues to watch out for. Other than that the big fear will be Castellan knights or other large models that aren't phased by 6 Kastellan on overwatch, even in protector mode.

Rinion wrote:
I've been working on a list idea! You only start the game with 9CP usable but that was enough most of the time.

The idea is that with Metallicas warlord trait you can leave combat and still shoot, the Dakkabots and Kataphron have an absolutely huge footprint and traditionally the weakness with gunlines is that if anything gets to melee you automatically lose 500pts per unit. The new stratagem lets you get a big threat range on the Incendine Combustors and makes for very deadly overwatch, after which the survivors can leave and shoot again.

I could tag the Kataphrons as Ryza as they would do 50% more damage but 9x 60mm bases would be hard to screen, and expecting Orks and GSC to be in melee rather quickly. Custodes bikes, rhino rush etc. Any dedicated melee unit will probably crush them but they'll likely have 4++ and at 3w each they can still live!

The Bunker is there to clown-car all 9 Kataphron and a Dominus inside of in case you lose turn 1. Its so far proved valuable vs heavy gunlines who have to go through it first. It can br dropped for another basic batallion though for 5 more CP and bodies, or drop some screen for a 3rd Dunecrawler.

Spoiler:

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards
5x Skitarii Vanguards

6x Kastelan Robot: Incendine Combustor, 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
Onager Dunecrawler: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Battalion Metallica
Tech-Priest Dominus
Tech-Priest Enginseer

4x Servitors

Kataphron Destroyers [30 PL, 432pts]
9x Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Rangers
5x Skitarii Vanguards

Fortification Network
Imperial Bunker

I considered this, but only 5 Kataphrons can shoot while embarked, and you can't buff them. So they are only a container that you pop out of on turn one that your opponent can easily play around. Seems pricey for 100+ points and a detachment. Wish we could transport them in Drills...

Don't root your Dakkabots unless the trade is worthwhile. And once you do make a good trade, it's honestly not too bad if enemies make it to melee. Really, you should have something to take that melee or counter-charge anyway. I mean, everyone is scared of Shining Spears, but you really shouldn't be. Their punch comes from 6" range shooting, not charging, and if they are Ynnari, they can only Soulburst to shoot again once per turn. Finally, remember that a unit of Shining Spears is almost 400 points itself, so even if you kill 250 points worth of models with your 6x Dakkabot unit, you come out on top if they charge you because those Spears and Dakkabots will likely be stuck poking each other for the rest of the game. Things you should worry about though are flying characters, such as Daemons, Battlesuits, etc. They have lower points, much better melee capabilities, and it is relatively easy to clear a hole for them to land in. (Interlock your screens!)

dadamowsky wrote:
I've got a local 2k tournament coming in the next month, I am also slowly preparing for starting in majors. I would be grateful to point out the flaws in my list.

The tournament is held in ETC style (Maelstorm/Eternal missions mix). There are a few house rules that'd be important to mention:
- forests block LoS "to the sky" and give a -2" penalty to charge if any part of any model in the unit is crossing the forest
- ground floor is blind
- everyone has a 3CP Vect-like stratagem that goes off on 4+ (you can vect this vect for vectception ;P )
- everyone has a 3CP Deny the Witch stratagem that goes off on 4+

The meta is featuring a freaking lot of Knights, with Castelan/IG as my wretched nemesis. As it is more and more prevalent, I guess I need to bring a solid counter. I don't have a Castellan (that's why there's a Crusader), and I don't have (neither I intend to have) any kind of IG in my army. One day I might break, but that's how I want to roll for now.

The core idea of the list below - DSing Kastelans and Corpuscarii with a Stygies/Crusader backline shooting. Corps task is to clear the room for Kastelans to charge in, Robots wipe whatever remains from the screen, and using fight twice protocol they jump onto another target locking it in the combat. Corps either charge in to help (if there's a risk of tarpitting Kastelans), or go to contest the objective nearby. Kastelans ultimate goal is to trap the Dominus in combat, hopefully after having his fighting abilities degraded to WS5+ with a Krast Crusader.
Graia infantry to deny the Doom with my own stratagem + the tournament's stratagem if I fail. Icarus to deal with Valkyries (almost every IG player brings at least one), Ravagers, Bikes, and so on.

Spoiler:

Stygies Battalion
TPD (Macrostubber, Vokite); Necromechanic
TPE
Tesco Rangers
5x Rangers w/2x Transuranic
5x Rangers w/2x Transuranic

3x Icarus Onagers

Mixed Battalion
Cybernetica Cohort
2x TPE
5x Tesco Graia Rangers
5x Tesco Graia Rangers
5x Tesco Graia Rangers

10x Lucius Corpuscarii
10x Lucius Corpuscarii
Lucius Datasmith

4x Lucius Fistelans w/ flamer

SHA Krast
Crusader; RFBC; Ion Bulwark, Headman's Mark

Maybe Agripinaa with Eye instead of Stygies? Helps the Crawlers and Arquebuses mess with vehicles. (Note that the Eye can go on an Agripinaa Enginseer "spotter," not necessarily the Dominus buffing the Crawlers, which you may want to keep back.) Move Necromechanic to a mixed detachment Enginseer; both should ideally be Graia for the 1CP Abhor (2 CP cheaper than the default per your house rules).

Castellan or Styrix would be better than Crusader in any Knight-heavy meta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a side note, if you are going to LVO, FLG has sent me a ruling on the "as if" versus "is" debate. Here is the email chain:


So for our purposes, yes, you can use Plasma Specialists during Infoslave Skull. And all of the Techpriest auras work with it too.

 Suzuteo wrote:
I've been working on a list idea! You only start the game with 9CP usable but that was enough most of the time.

Maybe Agripinaa with Eye instead of Stygies? Helps the Crawlers and Arquebuses mess with vehicles. (Note that the Eye can go on an Agripinaa Enginseer "spotter," not necessarily the Dominus buffing the Crawlers, which you may want to keep back.) Move Necromechanic to a mixed detachment Enginseer; both should ideally be Graia for the 1CP Abhor (2 CP cheaper than the default per your house rules).

Castellan or Styrix would be better than Crusader in any Knight-heavy meta.

Well... I'd love to have a Castellan, but 2x Drills are next on my purchase list, and that stretches my wallet. So, for now, a single Questoris and up to 4 Armigers are everything I can field from LoWs.
As for the Eye - this is an idea, although I'm a little bit anxious about giving up on the -1 hit detachment wide.

Take it from someone who has three primed and unpainted Drills sitting around, you might want to look into conversions. Lol.

Well, if the -1 to hit is important, I guess that is fair. I personally have learned to not rely on it.

From the test proxies I've been playing, Drills are quite a good unit to have. And I feel like they're opening a whole new, mobile beyond the Infiltrators, world to Admech. I was trying to convert one for kicks, but it takes quite a time that I could use to either paint or even get a paid gig. Besides Id rather have the Drill, just in case TO would dismiss a converted, nullifying my list in effect :p

Now when you mentioned the -hit reliance and the Eye, I'm not sure whether it's worth to keep stygies. I'm not infiltrating anything with this list, so a RR wound on all of those S7 might indeed prove to be beneficial. On the other hand I've seen so many Dominus Rockets (forgot the name) to miss due to -hit, and plasma to whiff, that it might help me survive. Agripinaa dogma gives me nothing - Orks will flood me with numbers anyway, knights will shrug the overwatch. It I had Kataohrons at least, to have the synergy... But this list is short on points and CPs already.

Guess I have to sleep over it.

Don't get me wrong. They are quite good. But we just don't have the sort of charge bonuses for our infantry to make them reliable. We can do shooting, but 9x Carbine + 3x Plasma Caliver or 12x Hoplite, typically with Graia dogma for durability and maximum anti-Psyker annoyance, is the upper limit on the amount of damage output we can use with the Drills. For everything else, going Lucius is better.