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Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

Yoda i think your being a bit disrespectful to others as well, just because he isnt souping in Guard doesnt mean he is gonna get beat by everyone. Ive been running the quintessential 9 mortars and castellan soup like others and i find it sooooooo boring. Infact i found mortars to be hit and miss, and now people have counters to that list.

I have also beaten the so called META LIST many times at events across the UK, what armies i do have problems with are the oddballs, ones that fly under the radar and try something outside the meta.

Whilst i agree about breachers not being the best, if it works for him who are we to shot him down hey? Its like i find Neutrons better than Icarus arrays but i wont tell someone not to take Icarus' on their Onagers, everyone has there own go to units that they excel with.

This whole Guard discussion has gotten blown out of proportion and is becoming silly. We should be encouraging people to you know take more ADMECH in a so called ADMECH TACTICA, Who cares about your 40 shot punisher or 9d6 bolter shots, your list isnt God. It wont work for others, and some people are sick of playing it (me).

If you try something new maybe youll enjoy it and learn how they work, not everything has to be about statistics. Throughout my whole history of Warhammer people have always claimed mathammer for numerous things then complain when their shield captain on jetbike gets pinched to death by my Onager is CC.

Yeah you can work out averages and what units triumph others but ultimately its the player that makes the units work. Ive lost count on how many people take the net list of the month and fail out it. Back in 6th and 7th with Taudar, now with Soup. There is a guy at my local club who famously buys the new hot thing each week claiming its the best thing ever then gets trashed by everyone.

There are those types of people everywhere in the hobby, they try win the games with their wallets. What we should be doing is learning from each others experiences and gain insight on how they made those certain units work.

Hulksmash has been very good at that, hes described how he used his army and why he picked them, we have no reason to say his list is bad and that he will never get top place. He did well with what he ran and i applaud him for that. We should have more examples of that and not the knee-jerk reaction of Guard do everything better which quite frankly is a load of lies.

Make something origin and truly yours and try your best to make it work, it will make the game a whole lot better than it is now. Usually (and famously) i dont agree with what U02dah4 runs (as i dont like Agripinaa) but i sure as hell respect him for having success with his unique build, and its like me, i havent ran Cawl since last year in September as i dont think he is necessary.

Try not to block out the little gems of purer Admech builds with Guard. If we are going to shut down those types of people, maybe move your tactics and lists to a more Soup themed thread. Im ok with the occassion guard, assassin, knight talk as ultimately we have them in our lore (Hyspasists, Acuitors, Venatorii and our own household knights) but we shouldnt ultimately always pick Guard over Admech.

They may be better in your eyes but they arent in other peoples. Our codex has its problems like many other early gen books (SM, CSM, GK) and hopefully we will get a update (look at Stormcast and Bloodbound, they get a new book so often).

Rant over. In the end be more polite to other peoples thoughts and dont force Guard onto people. Yes the whole topic got out of hand but thats because Admech has a lot of passionate players (i used to play guard as admech waaaaaay before we had a book, i converted models and used fw tech thralls) and we have kind of degraded into this mess.

I for one love seeing the likes of Hulksmash and U02dah4 having fun and good matches with their armies, we all picked Admech for who they are and not for averages and best army.

Remember the flesh is weak, praise be the machine

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 12:19:06


How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






@Yoda79
I was watching LVO streams, and something I noted is that a lot of the Castellan + Guard Brigade lists only worked because virtually all of the CP was being reserved for the Castellan. It is 3 CP for Order of Companions and 1 CP for Machine Spirit Resurgent, 3 CP for Rotate Ion Shields. So 6-7 CP per round! And you need to use these stratagems or your Castellan will die or your shooting will just suck, which makes Agents of Vect very powerful against these lists. And I believe GSC now also have an Agents of Vect-like stratagem.

I have been experimenting with Krast Styrix and Crusader. Using a Questoris means I can get away with spending a lot less CP per turn on the Knight and more on my Kastelans (2-3 CP per turn) and Ryzaphrons (2 CP per turn). He also is much better in melee than a Castellan, which pretty much has to keep its distance.

So far, I like the Styrix a lot more. This is because they have built-in Ion Bulwark and Sanctuary, so you can get a WLT and Relic, which should be rerolls and damage. Meanwhile, Crusader has to choose two of: good saves, rerolls, or damage. Styrix also has a built-in Omnispex, grav gun, and his Volkite gun has a great profile for anti-vehicle shooting (45" Heavy 5, S8 AP-3, D6).

I do like Mortars. I took me a long time before I finally decided to cut them. The reason why is because I think you need to run Cadian with Laurels to make them work. They are not as good with Catachan. But I want to take Catachan because I need my infantry to be able to at least threaten Orks and Nids in CC.

With the new formation though, Wyverns seem better than Mortars and Basilisks. I believe Wulfey currently favors Vostroyan. I might test one of those out with Catachan.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/21 13:11:18


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

I feel that some people might benefit from listening to the last chapter tactics podcast particularly in relation to the most successfull admech units being kataphrons of both descriptions and how kastellens were not that good across detatchments.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

 Yoda79 wrote:
Gotta take side with Suzuteo not only cause it was unfair and below polite many posts vs him but also cause we got like 500 pages of ad mech talking and testing and many should show some more respect .

To the point after moniring both list and the lvo pro wanna be and Suzuteo list it's obvious Suzuteo is the winner and you can test it your self facing the lists vs each other and more.

The fact you did good at lvo does not mean as much as you claim for your list and the fact you faced maiinly same enemies proves your matchup luck.

Still I got many to say for both lists .

List one lvo champ.

Don't get me wrong I agree with Suzuteo I wish you did finshed first in lvo with pure ad mech. I wish but if I'm correct you claim ad mech purity and you go a stationary gun line where

A) even breachers need to be close to Cawl for the buff so what xactly did you do. Removed Robots and onagers to circle 3 robotts with Terminator like breachers so what?? Robots are not good onagers not cheap. If I am to take Cawl Mars etc then I need Mars Gun line.

B) oh I'm gonna remove guad hla bla . Yeah right you gonna remove mortars 9D6 Los and find it where?? In solo ad mech . You talking mcho when you can sit back and mortar enemies Los. And that is the only reason you got some proper function in your list . Ofc 7 breachers able to fight revive heal T5 3w 1+/4++ it's superb body guards but mortars gve you the ability to remove enemy campping units . That's why you can play with 3 robots only bla bla.

C) pure ad mech k let me first see you remove the 40 shot moving T8 punisher and wee LL see your stationary other options why you took the rush and not a Robot spare us your grand strategy we know it as well.

D) ofc you don't need more than 5 infiltrators cause you got also guard let me see you as the rest of us having to play 10 infiltrators and loose them trying to actually bring results.

E) I'm sorry but from you list I can see you are. Not an ad mech pure . Split units like balistsri 3 robots 5 infiltrators none benefit from our buffs same as a Cawl buffing arrc breachers . It's not refined ad mech it's your plan and you made it work no question about it but will not have consistency without guard . Even is you bring some results eventually if you remove guard you will become a classic ad mech lossimg from vp and vs a refined like like a guard list no your expensive 8 man ranger omnispecx won't wiin cause high tier full competitive guard infantry have mobility options and melee options fixed in their build and you don't.

Ad mech pure list with no vanguard has no clue . Vanguard one unit only can advance shoot and provide -1 T. If you don't know how to use this then breachers melee benefits talks come later.


So much to unpack....I'll respond to your totally not meaning to be offensive while constantly bla bla'ing my list while not understanding how it actually works. So even though you're a "No offense, BUT" person and came off very rude here you go

a) Only one breacher needs to be within 9" of Cawl for rerolls in shooting. But since Cawl is normally moving it's pretty easy to do. Cawl on the otherhand also helps with CC because mars double traits and cawls ability to get you that reroll 1's is very nice on the Breachers.
b) I am going to remove the guard actually. Mortars were in there because of ITC magic boxes. Turns out I didn't really need them. They helped but no more than a bunch of other tools would in different ways. I use 3 robots because that's all I've found I need. I've noticed, from as far back as 5th when people didn't understand some list choices, that people don't really understand threat dispersion in list building.
c) Oddly that tank only did work in one game. And all it did was make it so that the game was over turn 1 instead of turn 3. I used it cause I made a cool conversion. It's a good unit (hence why it's popping up all over now) but it didn't add much I didn't already have. I'd rather have another unit of 6-7 breachers honestly. My Grand Strategy you seem to think I'm pushing is simply finding something fun that works for me. I'm a toolbox player. More units and tools the better.
d) I used 5 infiltrators because I work much better with them than I did with 10. Meaning I'm smarter about applying them and getting multiple turns out of them instead of the shoot and die that I did with 10. The decision has nothing to do with having Guard or not.
e) I wasn't pure admech this tournament. The plan is to transition that way. The balistari are there for brigade purposes but they generally benefitted from Cawl as well because an 18" bubble is pretty big. Infiltrators aren't meant to benefit from Cawl though they do in the potential to reroll 1's in shooting and thru the Wrath of Cawl strat if I want a dead character when they come in.

Vanguard don't really do much for the list. I like them and might grab a single unit at some point just for the sheer number of shots but reality is that in my game plan Rangers are superior for ME. They genuinely are one of the best infantry choices in the game based on points and abilities. The idea that because I don't use a unit that doesn't work in my style of play means I don't have a clue is a bit......off. As for lists I played at LVO I played 2 eldar armies (bane of a lot of Admech because of all the free actions), 2 Ork armies (considered one of the top codexes currently), Deathwatch/Sisters/DA run by one of the better players in the country year in and year out (and fellow previous ETC teammate), and then an off the wall Ultra army that was based on going first and went first. I BUILT the list to deal with the guard/castellan/whatever lists out there and didn't see a single one.

I hope you keep your mind a little more open. With the point changes to the army none of the previous 200pgs of "Tactics" mean a thing. It's essentially a new book with the new points and vigilus. Guard aren't essential, especially if your meta has geared to kill 150 orks in a game

Also this is where my pure admech is starting at. Currently it's 11pts over but that's fixable;

Mixed Battalion
Enginseer (Lucius)
Enginseer (Griai)
5 Rangers (Stygies)
5 Rangers (Stygies)
5 Rangers (Griai)

Mars Brigade
Cawl
Manipulus
Enginseer
4 Servitors
4 Servitors
5 Infiltrators w/Flechette & Tasers
2x7 Breachers w/Heavy Arc Rifles
4x8 Rangers w/Omnispex
3xAutocannon Striders
2xIcarus Crawler w/Stubber
3 Kastellan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 14:30:34


Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Yoda79
I was watching LVO streams, and something I noted is that a lot of the Castellan + Guard Brigade lists only worked because virtually all of the CP was being reserved for the Castellan. It is 3 CP for Order of Companions and 1 CP for Machine Spirit Resurgent, 3 CP for Rotate Ion Shields. So 6-7 CP per round! And you need to use these stratagems or your Castellan will die or your shooting will just suck, which makes Agents of Vect very powerful against these lists. And I believe GSC now also have an Agents of Vect-like stratagem.

I have been experimenting with Krast Styrix and Crusader. Using a Questoris means I can get away with spending a lot less CP per turn on the Knight and more on my Kastelans (2-3 CP per turn) and Ryzaphrons (2 CP per turn). He also is much better in melee than a Castellan, which pretty much has to keep its distance.

So far, I like the Styrix a lot more. This is because they have built-in Ion Bulwark and Sanctuary, so you can get a WLT and Relic, which should be rerolls and damage. Meanwhile, Crusader has to choose two of: good saves, rerolls, or damage. Styrix also has a built-in Omnispex, grav gun, and his Volkite gun has a great profile for anti-vehicle shooting (45" Heavy 5, S8 AP-3, D6).

I do like Mortars. I took me a long time before I finally decided to cut them. The reason why is because I think you need to run Cadian with Laurels to make them work. They are not as good with Catachan. But I want to take Catachan because I need my infantry to be able to at least threaten Orks and Nids in CC.

With the new formation though, Wyverns seem better than Mortars and Basilisks. I believe Wulfey currently favors Vostroyan. I might test one of those out with Catachan.


Yeah GSC have the pre-nerfed version of AoV. Theirs is 3CP not 4 so maybe that will get addressed in their FAQ as it isnt really fair on the Dark Eldar. I also used to run Vostroyans as well as their order and stratagem was quite good. I also used a single Emperor's Wrath Wyvern and it did serious work way better than 9 mortar teams) but it drank CPs and was easily destroyed in the current AT meta. I am also a fan of the Styrix and have been using it for ages, it is my favourite Knight both looks and game play wise (gotta love the CHOOOOOM), and mine is a nice candy blue (forge world clear paints!!). I just really suspect GSC to have a upsurge in players (no pun intended) and with their deployment shenanigans and mass of bodies geared for combat (rending claws...) and a butt tonne of hand flamers and detonation bombs, the meta will have to change to fight this new threat. Things like Augury scanner to shooting units arriving from 12" away will be key, even Vanguard can built a Deepstrike with their number of shots vs GEQ coming in. Fulgrites may even make a comeback to counter charge units, they excel at killing light infantry as do the other variants.

Our codex is kind of blessed in the fact that our shooting can handle AT and AI needs in a pinch, we will just have to work towards board control which is hard vs the likes of GSC, Orkz and Nids. Guardsmen may elevate that problem a bit, but other horde armies can and will kill guardsmen easily and will also control more board space.

Thats what i think the meta will have to adapt to, you may still see the Castellan/Guard/BA soup but around my parts that is a rarer site. Its more Eldar Soup, Triptides and Greentides than Imperium.

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Wow some people get their knickers in a twist here, it's a game don't get mental about it. Even if you play tournaments, it's a game, not a job. This thread has been tainted with some toxicity since the start by various people and it could be avoided just by being a bit more polite.

If a list works and the results are there to prove it I have no idea why you should be going after him telling him his list is wrong and to add more Guard. This thread have been Tactica: Guard for a long time and it's hard to believe people are being told pure AdMech doesn't work. Since Vigilus and CA18 AdMech is CONSIDERABLY better as a solo list and I believe definitely viable even in a tournament. While discussing meta choices isn't it good to have a list that can work outside of it to surprise people ? If everyone and their dog plays 32 + Knight + their base codex in Imperium of course games are going to be predictable.

And don't get me started on the fact that most of the players here play the houserules that is ITC because for some reason everyone adopted it. GW can't try to balance a game most players are not even playing. I'd be interested to see these lists play some of the CA18 missions like Cut Off The Head with a single central objective and Characters that have to risk their lives to score points. But ITC seems to be mostly the same game over and over again.

My Agripinaa + Lucius list with 4 Fistelans works well enough because nobody expects AdMech to DS 4 Bots that make a 6" charge in their lines while still getting shot at by 6 Destroyers. Most importantly I have a blast playing this list and I wonder how you guys have fun moving 50 infantry models but that's personal, I just dislike hordes and static gunlines.

My points is: to each their own, and don't get nervous when someone courteously express their new list ideas because of Mathammer or theorycrafting. They're both important tools and shouldn't be dismissed but it's not the word of the Omnissiah like some think it is on this forum as a whole.


40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

@Hulksmash you say you find rangers better because of their abilities can you explain that because we ran the numbers a few pages earlier and in terms of outlut they are mostly worsr than vanguard/guard in terms of output.

@deffreka

What has fairness got to do with the cost of AoV if dark eldar/ynnarii keep winning they need a nerf - if GSC dont keep winning why shouldnt they access the same abiliity cheaper. Sure its a powerfull ability. But on a weaker army is it as broken

It also makes more sense fluff wise that the army that infiltrates others for years will counter a strategy more easily


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aaranis I for one tend to play ETC style missions more than ITC style.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 16:06:26


 
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

To answer you all in one post .

I made the post to show how it felt reading the ding dong post vs Suzuteo and i saw pretty much offence towrads him being polite .

Im not a person poping here first time and id appreciate to take a moment and understand what i wrote before you post a block of text saying

I disagree but i olan to do it in the same sentence. I did not wrote all that so the rest here can tell me the obvious point i made . List are played from players and i agree 100% this is the place to take wisdom . Meaning not tonhave to spend 200 hours to come to a resukt we have been debating and tesrong like aeons.

I know exactly what i do and what your list did and i tell you 100% sure it was not refined. Glad youbhad success but it xould be better and you know it.

From ad mech contribution Suzuteo provided a list that somewhat overcommed a big ad mech issue mobility with his list while also given freely his v v good catachan breachers strat as well as dagger and ryzadesteoyers.

So when i see a list with punisher and mortars debating about guard infantry while the only actuall contribution is your lvo resukts sorry but my post will be offensive cause i have respect for Suzuteo conteibuting seriously some 1000 pages deep.

Amd no i care less if you managed to get resukts with breachers and i care less cause its not that hard to see a 30 point model terminator + value perform so what. How did you add to ad mech problems switched from a Ca18 point decrease a unit and again buffing with Cawl . Great good job sorry but its not something wr have not seen. Sute it works but its not actually a new strat . I have personaly done it even before the point decrese and claimed it in here with succes ao what . When i posted about breachers i got laughed about . So what .

I m not here to offend merely posted cause i saw a really bad behaviour towrds suzuteo and posted so all can see its easy to make a case when you talking about a list taking as base point modeks and individual peeformance. Thats the point

So not only you didnt get the point but you still jump and rush texts of block about offence list building conteibution .
Sorry i have contributed you cna see my name on the start of the flrums on ad mech about ryza strat when 8th came out if you cant find older .

Im not here to chit chat with personal ossue kids . The point for both lists was atm current meta most units work and its up to the hands of the generals how they win .
As for feed back tranforming a stationary ad mech removing a knight to add breachers etc playing with points its not the end of the world.

I use it sure i get it ye i wrote the strat but in the end its still ststionary with our the rush guard troops knight etc that we took for that exact reason . And even if we got the toughness with breachers its still remains one sided.

Beyond that . And i presumme we wont see again the lot of you doing exactly that towards none else in here .

Contributing now. Cause i m not here to offend even if it might sound like it .

Bravo for going pure mech and suUteo and me congrats all for trying but ad mech is not yet complete .

So let me help you gain time listen to my experience and build upon it or discard it no problem but listen.

There are clear issues you need to adreess in competitive when you remove knights guard etc.
I wont start over most of you already know the issues.

So what i v found.
Brigade is not for you stop trying why?

The gains are cp and you dont have a BA or Castellan need to spend basis like 8 in a unit .
Our best stratagems benefit large units 5 Robots 6 dragoons 4+ balistarii 10 infiktrators etc.
For the units to break even in points with other armies you need to have all abilities our units dont have . Its not super unit a plasma breacher even at 48 points its not . Cause he still got inconsistent damage the d6 shots have extreme differential results. Etc etc for most units to become above avergae you need to have them with buffs
That alone tell you to build uo battalions and use one mixed else you wont have the proper tools to utilise your ad mech.

And we always compare to other units from other armies cause we talking competitive . You gotto make the comparisson . Not cause you gonna take the guard infantry bit more so you evuluate your plan.

Thats why we got knights and guard so far. To cover our army issues .

So if now after CA 18 we can work with 2 battalions all our units amd with a mix top our plans then i m telling you after a lot of testing ad mech needs 2 detachments and since you definetly need many more things like atratagems etc 2 battalions are minimum to begin with .

I cant stress enough the post we talked about this amd tried to explained it from the new edition begining . We are semi cp hungry but all our model abikities come from formation and cp . The ad mech issue + big model count in units for buff.

So if two already used cant take knights cause for me all testing said super heavy +3 cp or castellan solo is max result and even if styrix is good we play Etc so no Fw to begin with .

For me and soon will see my list will be assasins so i can cover my army issues and remain as loyal as possible to pure ad mech . There can be no other serious play in top competitive enviroment .if you remove all ally options you will eventually


And the game is not build like that. You can try you can win many games cause your pro player sure but we are talking about refined top lists atm lvo top etc not a list you made for pure fun and lore. Need to have also top competitive chances . Nothing more nothing less.

Manipulus needs to be inside Robots and breachers we need their toughness 100% i strongly suggest buildong around the snipers back field maybe atack with snioer assasin when need . Infiltrators benefit exteemely as mars and its not skill to play 3 Robots or 5 infiktrators but got to make 5 Robots and 10 win all games cause you definetly need them . ( I use 4 Robots amd 6 infiltrators but you get the points )

So we are close yes its somewhere there where you will find my list still some decisions to be made mainly need ro see the point invest on assasins atm. Then how many kataphrons i got and if plasma can be used with deep strike or how . Etc.

But i wont waste points in one knight single autocannon balistarii etc etc. Optimise you list refine it and trust me you will get results .

Refined use at least 6 infiltrators and wrath on them you can split fire if positioned properly and do serious things with them . Use vanguards with any melee you making like manipulus Cawl breachers etc. Use lascannon balistarii 3+ one unit if yoh are to use them . Yes icarus onager is better cause it has 10 shots and not d3 neutron . Thats it not result issue but consinstency issue . Same goes for troops 6-7+ is optimal for me as well never used less is waste. And ofc dont forget there are also superb units to fill detachments like 3 dragoons 5 priest etc that can work wonders and close gaps. Most likely you will need to play test details unit sizes and refined numbers with games and playstyle.

Hf and i will not answer again to personal offence i care not . Just dont harash other that have already done much in here .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As always i provide free advice of my opinions playtests and wisdom . Feel free to push the ignore button if you dont like it but thats the point i care . My opinion if you dont gain from it dont read it and i posted to make a point when i saw polite suzuteo get mass posts nothing else . Already said much next 6 months now . Hf

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 16:24:27


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

@yoda76 I have only disagreed with sutzeo on his stance with respect to infantry being undealable with (I agree they are good)because hes wrong and his list because it features 25% buffing characters and for me thats way to high a % at the expense of having more things to buff

As to CP demands my list for the weekend i intend

1CP servitor Maniple
1CP extra relic
2CP go 2nd cover strat
2cp reuse canticle
3cp agripinaa strat
2 CP ryza strat+1bs (servitor maniple)
3 CP mars strat +1 bs
1 CP Binharic override
2 CP 5++ on katapjron
17 CP standard useage I will want more CP if say ryzaphrones breachers infiltrators wish to use their strats again. I could therefore do with more than the 20 I have and I have just admech

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/22 00:04:11


 
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Hmm, are breachers actually considered good? I see them pop up in some lists (and in the recent argument in this thread). I fail to see their strength since on paper they feel very underwhelming. Im genuinly curious since im all for having more playable models.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

Well im running 9 to a gt this weekend particularly in agripinaa they are tanky for their points solid as frontline melee. They tend to attract firepower but often live due to the agripinaa strat and make their pts back over a few turns of shooting not to mention in shielding other units

As to Lvo data only three lists ran them but they did better on avg than the admech lists without.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 17:00:30


 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

@u02

Regarding the rangers it's likely a playstyle thing. Their advantages for me start with the range. The extended rapid fire (15") has been a big deal. But being able to shoot from one of my line to the other allows me to better concentrate firepower while maintaining my screen. I get to use those things for most of the game. Vanguard on the other hand normally have to close, pushing their usefulness to me down. Surviving cc isnt something I expect so their neg toughness ability rarely matters. Especially since +1 st comes up fairly often for canticles. So it's more intangibles than hard numbers for my choice.

@Vlad

I wouldn't say they are considered good outside of certain styles but with the point drop and vigilus they fill a roll I was noting I was lacking initially. Essentially they are our counter attack while providing excellent ranged anti-tank/multi wound models. Being able to get to a 1+/4++ vs shooting is amazing. I use them initially to deter assaults into my line and then to smash forward for center board control (or both at the same time depending on the opposing force).

@Yoda

I'm gonna confess to having trouble following your train of thought. It's kinda all over the place. As for your defense of suzeto go for it but realize that it was mostly his casually dismissive arrogance and disbelief of other play styles that started that train. One you're following admirably I the tracks of. I think you need to realize just how much the landscape has changed with ca18 and vigulus. It's a new time. The meta is also shifting with the addition of orks and gsc. Also not to be a dick but the earlier crops of "admech" experts aren't burning up the scene so maybe, just maybe, there might be merit I others thoughts who are having success

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






U02dah4 wrote:
Well im running 9 to a gt this weekend particularly in agripinaa they are tanky for their points solid as frontline melee. They tend to attract firepower but often live due to the agripinaa strat and make their pts back over a few turns of shooting not to mention in shielding other units

As to Lvo data only three lists ran them but they did better on avg than the admech lists without.



so you stick them at the front of you castle and mow down whatever comes close and failing that , take potshots at vehicles? I'll have to try them (so i have an excuse to convert some bullgryn with the breacher weapons bit that were leftover from my destroyers), but the 2 hits with BS4 is making me nervous.
   
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

If you already run a dominus the you can get them to a 3+ reroll 1s for a cp. Mine are actually generally behind the line of rangers so they can shoot and counter attack. But I've got a buddy using them as front line smashers

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






If youre using them as a backline and buffing their shooting, wouldnt destroyers do a better job? Does the arc claw really put in more work than the flamer when getting charged? A quick run of mathhammer shows that destroyers about twice as much damage to given the same conditions (+1 hit and reroll 1s).

Assuming this, im guessing the lower point cost (more bodies to kill) coupled with the better close combat capabilities is why you play them?
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

They aren't backline though that's a common mistake. Think of the rangers the trip wire and the breachers the bomb. They are still between the enemy and my other heavier shooting (bots, striders, crawlers). Otherwise it's the more bodies, better cc, and better defensive capabikities.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Woah, i just realised they get a better save than destroyers, ok that changes my point of view. And using tougher units as a second line of defense makes sense. Do you double down in durability by adding some regular servitors to heal/res them or do you consider the agripiina strat to be enough?
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

U02dah4 wrote:
@Hulksmash you say you find rangers better because of their abilities can you explain that because we ran the numbers a few pages earlier and in terms of outlut they are mostly worsr than vanguard/guard in terms of output.

@deffreka

What has fairness got to do with the cost of AoV if dark eldar/ynnarii keep winning they need a nerf - if GSC dont keep winning why shouldnt they access the same abiliity cheaper. Sure its a powerfull ability. But on a weaker army is it as broken

It also makes more sense fluff wise that the army that infiltrates others for years will counter a strategy more easily


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aaranis I for one tend to play ETC style missions more than ITC style.


Nid Soup will be just as strong as Eldar soup, having a faction having the same stratagem but 1CP less is a massive kick in the nuts, its like Orkz there heavy flamers are more expensive than every other race, same with their power fists and chainfists. Dark Eldar (mainly Vect) will generally plan a lot longer than a bunch of mutant xenos.... Having also lived longer, being more tactical, heightened senses and better technology, it is more suited to Dark Eldar than a bunch of rebels. Fluff wise it doesnt really suit GSC any more than it suits DE. Genecult cant infiltrate everyone, Necrons? Nope. Daemons? Definitely not. Eldar? When the race is highly psychic they would soon figure something out. Dark Eldar, they come suddenly and disappear as soon as they arrived. Orkz, highly unlikely when A.) they are so anarchic and B.) Orkz naturely know when things arent Orky and have a tendency to kill or kick out Orkz that dont fit their ways, its even in the Ork codex, Genestealers find it hard to get a cult going in Ork society. Any marine faction would also be highly unlikely, how can they plan and infiltrate for something they woudnt know about? Most imperial citizens dont know much about the larger imperium, especially not the likes of Deathwatch and Grey Knights and when most marines are without warning and end uprisings (chaos, xenos, or other) quite quickly. So that strat would be more suited fluff wise to Imperial Guard and not much else maybe tau as well.

But we shouldnt base things off of fluff, gameplay wise Nid Soup isnt weaker than Eldar Soup, and pure GSC vs pure DE will favour the GSC massively, they do combat better, have a big psychic presence that the DE have no defense against, have better CC units and can easily kill raiders and venoms. AoV is only broken because it stops your strat straight out, no matter who has that its still broken. As a DE player it has won me games. As a GSC player it has won me games. Either way it should both cost the same amount of CP. Imagine if Hellfire rounds cost 1 more CP for DA as they are better than normal codex marines or BA have to pay 1CP more for fighting again with there dead Smash Captain as once again they are better than vanilla SM.

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in ca
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 deffrekka wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
@Hulksmash you say you find rangers better because of their abilities can you explain that because we ran the numbers a few pages earlier and in terms of outlut they are mostly worsr than vanguard/guard in terms of output.

@deffreka

What has fairness got to do with the cost of AoV if dark eldar/ynnarii keep winning they need a nerf - if GSC dont keep winning why shouldnt they access the same abiliity cheaper. Sure its a powerfull ability. But on a weaker army is it as broken

It also makes more sense fluff wise that the army that infiltrates others for years will counter a strategy more easily


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aaranis I for one tend to play ETC style missions more than ITC style.


Nid Soup will be just as strong as Eldar soup, having a faction having the same stratagem but 1CP less is a massive kick in the nuts, its like Orkz there heavy flamers are more expensive than every other race, same with their power fists and chainfists. Dark Eldar (mainly Vect) will generally plan a lot longer than a bunch of mutant xenos.... Having also lived longer, being more tactical, heightened senses and better technology, it is more suited to Dark Eldar than a bunch of rebels. Fluff wise it doesnt really suit GSC any more than it suits DE. Genecult cant infiltrate everyone, Necrons? Nope. Daemons? Definitely not. Eldar? When the race is highly psychic they would soon figure something out. Dark Eldar, they come suddenly and disappear as soon as they arrived. Orkz, highly unlikely when A.) they are so anarchic and B.) Orkz naturely know when things arent Orky and have a tendency to kill or kick out Orkz that dont fit their ways, its even in the Ork codex, Genestealers find it hard to get a cult going in Ork society. Any marine faction would also be highly unlikely, how can they plan and infiltrate for something they woudnt know about? Most imperial citizens dont know much about the larger imperium, especially not the likes of Deathwatch and Grey Knights and when most marines are without warning and end uprisings (chaos, xenos, or other) quite quickly. So that strat would be more suited fluff wise to Imperial Guard and not much else maybe tau as well.

But we shouldnt base things off of fluff, gameplay wise Nid Soup isnt weaker than Eldar Soup, and pure GSC vs pure DE will favour the GSC massively, they do combat better, have a big psychic presence that the DE have no defense against, have better CC units and can easily kill raiders and venoms. AoV is only broken because it stops your strat straight out, no matter who has that its still broken. As a DE player it has won me games. As a GSC player it has won me games. Either way it should both cost the same amount of CP. Imagine if Hellfire rounds cost 1 more CP for DA as they are better than normal codex marines or BA have to pay 1CP more for fighting again with there dead Smash Captain as once again they are better than vanilla SM.






The GSG Vect strat has the pre-FAQ pricing, its probably going to get set to 4cp in the next FAQ.
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Woah, i just realised they get a better save than destroyers, ok that changes my point of view. And using tougher units as a second line of defense makes sense. Do you double down in durability by adding some regular servitors to heal/res them or do you consider the agripiina strat to be enough?


I personally use mine in a Mars brigade so I make it a vigilus fmdetachment for the better invul and the ability to bring them back with servitors since those are the cheap elite filler.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

VladimirHerzog wrote:
 deffrekka wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
@Hulksmash you say you find rangers better because of their abilities can you explain that because we ran the numbers a few pages earlier and in terms of outlut they are mostly worsr than vanguard/guard in terms of output.

@deffreka

What has fairness got to do with the cost of AoV if dark eldar/ynnarii keep winning they need a nerf - if GSC dont keep winning why shouldnt they access the same abiliity cheaper. Sure its a powerfull ability. But on a weaker army is it as broken

It also makes more sense fluff wise that the army that infiltrates others for years will counter a strategy more easily


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Aaranis I for one tend to play ETC style missions more than ITC style.


Nid Soup will be just as strong as Eldar soup, having a faction having the same stratagem but 1CP less is a massive kick in the nuts, its like Orkz there heavy flamers are more expensive than every other race, same with their power fists and chainfists. Dark Eldar (mainly Vect) will generally plan a lot longer than a bunch of mutant xenos.... Having also lived longer, being more tactical, heightened senses and better technology, it is more suited to Dark Eldar than a bunch of rebels. Fluff wise it doesnt really suit GSC any more than it suits DE. Genecult cant infiltrate everyone, Necrons? Nope. Daemons? Definitely not. Eldar? When the race is highly psychic they would soon figure something out. Dark Eldar, they come suddenly and disappear as soon as they arrived. Orkz, highly unlikely when A.) they are so anarchic and B.) Orkz naturely know when things arent Orky and have a tendency to kill or kick out Orkz that dont fit their ways, its even in the Ork codex, Genestealers find it hard to get a cult going in Ork society. Any marine faction would also be highly unlikely, how can they plan and infiltrate for something they woudnt know about? Most imperial citizens dont know much about the larger imperium, especially not the likes of Deathwatch and Grey Knights and when most marines are without warning and end uprisings (chaos, xenos, or other) quite quickly. So that strat would be more suited fluff wise to Imperial Guard and not much else maybe tau as well.

But we shouldnt base things off of fluff, gameplay wise Nid Soup isnt weaker than Eldar Soup, and pure GSC vs pure DE will favour the GSC massively, they do combat better, have a big psychic presence that the DE have no defense against, have better CC units and can easily kill raiders and venoms. AoV is only broken because it stops your strat straight out, no matter who has that its still broken. As a DE player it has won me games. As a GSC player it has won me games. Either way it should both cost the same amount of CP. Imagine if Hellfire rounds cost 1 more CP for DA as they are better than normal codex marines or BA have to pay 1CP more for fighting again with there dead Smash Captain as once again they are better than vanilla SM.






The GSG Vect strat has the pre-FAQ pricing, its probably going to get set to 4cp in the next FAQ.


Yeah thats what im saying, the GSC version will most likely get the price hike too in their FAQ. What U02dah4 is saying is a bit silly, just think if a chaos knight book came out and they had their own version of order of companions and it was the cost before its nerf. Just because there are from a different faction doesnt mean it shouldnt cost the same. Its things like this that ruin the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 19:08:31


How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in ca
Tough Traitorous Guardsman






Can someone explain to me how or why this list is a good list? I found it on Reddit. It includes 4 Termites. I like lists no one plays, but can’t understand this one. Isn’t something many factions can do?

I quote :

It excells at Alpha Striking and is excellent at preventing being Alpha struck. I've lost 2 games out of 25 with it.

The idea is to pre game move all the termites up the field and deploy with the least amount of drops so you always get that +1 to the turn one roll. Then either turn 1 or at worst turn 2 charge.

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [74 PL, 1197pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [10 PL, 174pts] Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 127pts]: Eradication Ray [10pts], Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe (Warlord) Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 115pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol

Elites [20 PL, 372pts] Fulgurite Electro-Priests [12 PL, 192pts]: 12x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [192pts] Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield

Dedicated Transport [32 PL, 536pts] Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [18 PL, 199pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [6 PL, 94pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 105pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [30 PL, 604pts] Household Choice: House Vulker, Questor Mechanicus

Lord of War [30 PL, 604pts] Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile [24pts], 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon [70pts], Volcano Lance, Plasma Decimator, 2x Twin Meltagun, Titanic feet

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 19:40:49


 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone explain to me how or why this list is a good list? I found it on Reddit. It includes 4 Termites. I like lists no one plays, but can’t understand this one. Isn’t something many factions can do?

I quote :

It excells at Alpha Striking and is excellent at preventing being Alpha struck. I've lost 2 games out of 25 with it.

The idea is to pre game move all the termites up the field and deploy with the least amount of drops so you always get that +1 to the turn one roll. Then either turn 1 or at worst turn 2 charge.

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [74 PL, 1197pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [10 PL, 174pts] Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 127pts]: Eradication Ray [10pts], Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe (Warlord) Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 115pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol

Elites [20 PL, 372pts] Fulgurite Electro-Priests [12 PL, 192pts]: 12x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [192pts] Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield

Dedicated Transport [32 PL, 536pts] Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [18 PL, 199pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [6 PL, 94pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 105pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [30 PL, 604pts] Household Choice: House Vulker, Questor Mechanicus

Lord of War [30 PL, 604pts] Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile [24pts], 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon [70pts], Volcano Lance, Plasma Decimator, 2x Twin Meltagun, Titanic feet



If its lost only 2 of 25 games i think its doing quite well. Its a lot of t8 that you opponent has to deal with which can be a shock for some people. It seems alright to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 19:47:24


How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Points seem off

Is the guy still playing this list cause he can squeeze more in I think

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 19:54:00


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm gonna confess to having trouble following your train of thought. It's kinda all over the place. As for your defense of suzeto go for it but realize that it was mostly his casually dismissive arrogance and disbelief of other play styles that started that train. One you're following admirably I the tracks of. I think you need to realize just how much the landscape has changed with ca18 and vigulus. It's a new time. The meta is also shifting with the addition of orks and gsc. Also not to be a dick but the earlier crops of "admech" experts aren't burning up the scene so maybe, just maybe, there might be merit I others thoughts who are having success

I didn't want to wade back into this. But I think you are unfairly characterizing what I said. Go back to page 198. My first post was to congratulate you. My second post was mild disagreement and then I commented that Guard should be nerfed. Then the negativity hammers came out. I spent most of the time defending what in my opinion is a too-powerful strategy that should not need defending and cautioning you all against underestimating it or shying from abusing its competitive aspects--while some of you personally attacked me, I might add.

Going to summarize it again: Skitarii are pretty good shooters, but they are slow and narrow in scope. Guardsmen are very versatile. They can run crazy fast, have good body count for screening and capping, and they can both fight and shoot decently well in a pinch. You can use either one and build whatever army you want around either one, but it's a lot easier to build around units that can more easily score VP. And because of this, I admire anyone who manages to make Skitarii work.

Now, seriously, can we drop the negativity?

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone explain to me how or why this list is a good list? I found it on Reddit. It includes 4 Termites. I like lists no one plays, but can’t understand this one. Isn’t something many factions can do?

I quote :

It excells at Alpha Striking and is excellent at preventing being Alpha struck. I've lost 2 games out of 25 with it.

The idea is to pre game move all the termites up the field and deploy with the least amount of drops so you always get that +1 to the turn one roll. Then either turn 1 or at worst turn 2 charge.

Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [74 PL, 1197pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [10 PL, 174pts] Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 127pts]: Eradication Ray [10pts], Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe (Warlord) Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 115pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol

Elites [20 PL, 372pts] Fulgurite Electro-Priests [12 PL, 192pts]: 12x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [192pts] Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield

Dedicated Transport [32 PL, 536pts] Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [18 PL, 199pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [6 PL, 94pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 105pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [30 PL, 604pts] Household Choice: House Vulker, Questor Mechanicus

Lord of War [30 PL, 604pts] Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile [24pts], 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon [70pts], Volcano Lance, Plasma Decimator, 2x Twin Meltagun, Titanic feet

Because the Drills protect their contents on the drop and are really strong themselves for killing vehicles. Back when infiltration was a thing, they were really hot. Now they're a bit meh.

Justin Lois was the top-ranked AdMech player at LVO, and he actually had a list like this. From memory:
Spoiler:
Stygies Battalion
-Enginseer
-Enginseer
-3x5 Rangers
-Drill
-11 Fulgurites
-6 Dragoons

Cadian Battalion
-CC
-Primaris Psyker
-Bullgryns
-3x10 Guardsmen w/ Mortars
-3x3 Mortars

Raven Castellan


VladimirHerzog wrote:
Hmm, are breachers actually considered good? I see them pop up in some lists (and in the recent argument in this thread). I fail to see their strength since on paper they feel very underwhelming. Im genuinly curious since im all for having more playable models.

In general, the Kataphrons have become a lot more appealing pointswise. One key point is that making them Mars might be the secret sauce, as Hulksmash pointed out. Going from S6 to S7 is big; each point of strength in the S6-9 band is very impactful. I personally have not had much success with them, but I am more of a toolbox player and dislike multi-role units. It bothers me when things that don't specialize like Custodes, Dreadnoughts, and now Breachers don't do everything they can do in most games, but I can see the utility in having some generalization to handle uncertainty.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/21 20:26:49


 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Suzuteo wrote:
 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm gonna confess to having trouble following your train of thought. It's kinda all over the place. As for your defense of suzeto go for it but realize that it was mostly his casually dismissive arrogance and disbelief of other play styles that started that train. One you're following admirably I the tracks of. I think you need to realize just how much the landscape has changed with ca18 and vigulus. It's a new time. The meta is also shifting with the addition of orks and gsc. Also not to be a dick but the earlier crops of "admech" experts aren't burning up the scene so maybe, just maybe, there might be merit I others thoughts who are having success

I didn't want to wade back into this. But I think you are unfairly characterizing what I said. Go back to page 198. My first post was to congratulate you. My second post was mild disagreement and then I commented that Guard should be nerfed. Then the negativity hammers came out. I spent most of the time defending what in my opinion is a too-powerful strategy that should not need defending and cautioning you all against underestimating it or shying from abusing its competitive aspects--while some of you personally attacked me, I might add.

Going to summarize it again: Skitarii are pretty good shooters, but they are slow and narrow in scope. Guardsmen are very versatile. They can run crazy fast, have good body count for screening and capping, and they can both fight and shoot decently well in a pinch. You can use either one and build whatever army you want around either one, but it's a lot easier to build around units that can more easily score VP. And because of this, I admire anyone who manages to make Skitarii work.

Now, seriously, can we drop the negativity?

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone explain to me how or why this list is a good list? I found it on Reddit. It includes 4 Termites. I like lists no one plays, but can’t understand this one. Isn’t something many factions can do?

I quote :

It excells at Alpha Striking and is excellent at preventing being Alpha struck. I've lost 2 games out of 25 with it.

The idea is to pre game move all the termites up the field and deploy with the least amount of drops so you always get that +1 to the turn one roll. Then either turn 1 or at worst turn 2 charge.

Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [74 PL, 1197pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [10 PL, 174pts] Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 127pts]: Eradication Ray [10pts], Macrostubber [2pts], Omnissian Axe (Warlord) Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 115pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol Skitarii Vanguards [4 PL, 40pts]: 4x Skitarii Vanguard [32pts], Vanguard Alpha [8pts]: Radium Carbine, Radium Pistol

Elites [20 PL, 372pts] Fulgurite Electro-Priests [12 PL, 192pts]: 12x Fulgurite Electro-Priest [192pts] Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield Secutari Hoplites [4 PL, 90pts]: 9x Secutarii Hoplite [81pts], Hoplite Alpha [9pts]: Arc Lance, Mag-inverter Shield

Dedicated Transport [32 PL, 536pts] Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill [8 PL, 134pts]: 2x Storm bolter [4pts], Melta Cutter, Termite Drill

Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [18 PL, 199pts] Forge World: Stygies VIII

HQ [6 PL, 94pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts] Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 47pts]: Laspistol, Omnissian Axe, Servo-arm [12pts]

Troops [12 PL, 105pts] Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 35pts]: 4x Skitarii Ranger [28pts], Ranger Alpha [7pts]: Galvanic rifle, Radium Pistol

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [30 PL, 604pts] Household Choice: House Vulker, Questor Mechanicus

Lord of War [30 PL, 604pts] Knight Castellan [30 PL, 604pts]: 2x Shieldbreaker Missile [24pts], 2x Twin Siegebreaker Cannon [70pts], Volcano Lance, Plasma Decimator, 2x Twin Meltagun, Titanic feet

Because the Drills protect their contents on the drop and are really strong themselves for killing vehicles. Back when infiltration was a thing, they were really hot. Now they're a bit meh.

Justin Lois was the top-ranked AdMech player at LVO, and he actually had a list like this. From memory:
Spoiler:
Stygies Battalion
-Enginseer
-Enginseer
-3x5 Rangers
-Drill
-11 Fulgurites
-6 Dragoons

Cadian Battalion
-CC
-Primaris Psyker
-Bullgryns
-3x10 Guardsmen w/ Mortars
-3x3 Mortars

Raven Castellan



who personally attacked you?

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Well, you can see Hulksmash doing it right there in that quote. Others have done so as well; go back and see for yourself . (Don't report anything, as I think this is our last strike; we AdMech players have been a very rowdy bunch in the past.)

But hey, maybe it was unintentional and people were just mischaracterizing what I have been trying to say. I'd like to think we're all passionate about this game and our experiences.
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, you can see Hulksmash doing it right there in that quote. Others have done so as well; go back and see for yourself . (Don't report anything, as I think this is our last strike; we AdMech players have been a very rowdy bunch in the past.)

But hey, maybe it was unintentional and people were just mischaracterizing what I have been trying to say. I'd like to think we're all passionate about this game and our experiences.


Looking back at it all it didnt seem that bad, it just got pointless as its two different styles of play. Ive tried to shut it down but people kept bringing it back up. With what Hulksmash saying about dismissive arrogance is a bit rude but its probably more of a jest then a bad remark. As you say we are a rowdy bunch, which is because of our treatment as a faction has generally been bad through out the life of 8th so far.

I really think its more of the case of some of us are getting fed up of having to soup to remain competitive, once you start swapping units out for another factions variant you begin to forget what they do, hence the whole apples and oranges comment i made a few pages back. It is really if skitarii or guard are that person's cup of tea at the end of the day and this whole discuss has gone in circles. From no on people shouldnt blow holes in other peoples lists (and im not saying you did that, actually Yoda just did that before which was really quite rude if im honest) and instead get an understanding of how that person plays their army first before we add our own opinions and criticisms to it.

I will apologise for my attitude before as im feeling quite defeated with 8th but my point still stands that neither person is wrong, its just two styles of play. Maybe we will see more Purer Admech builds down the line in the competitive scene (who knows what that new tech priest will do for us, could be a game changer), the Meta changes pretty much every month so whats good now may not be good next month.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 20:48:37


How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






No, I get that feeling. Like I said in the debate, I also tried to make Skitarii work. Got my teeth kicked in enough times by Soup to learn my lessons.

Eh, Yoda comes off as more blunt than he intends. I work with a lot of foreigners with English as a second language, and you sort of just have to make better assumptions of people.

No apology is needed.

I actually hope they are Skitarii or Servitor "officers" myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 21:33:43


 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





crewe

 Suzuteo wrote:
No, I get that feeling. Like I said in the debate, I also tried to make Skitarii work. Got my teeth kicked in enough times by Soup to learn my lessons.

Eh, Yoda comes off as more blunt than he intends. I work with a lot of foreigners with English as a second language, and you sort of just have to make better assumptions of people.

No apology is needed.

I actually hope they are Skitarii or Servitor "officers" myself.


A Sub Domina or Tech Auxilia would be amazing as a troop commander for our Skits. Have you played Mechanicus? That has a lot of insight into what each type of Tech Priest is like.

How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?  
   
 
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