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Yoda79 wrote:last game Tau i filed 4 robots and 9 plasmaphrons besides the breachers.

Since i had manipulus and i was playing first my opponent saw he could not hide all riptides in the corner i was in range with 42" robots. He hide one and the rest remained in range he filed them agreesively in front.

Round one elimination volley on plasma and robots .Wrath of mars on robots. Used 2 robots to eliminate all drones with wrath of mars and rest of basic shooting . Rest robots on riptide. Then 2 plasma on remaining riptide and 7 on the other one. End of round one 2 riptides dead all drones dead .Snipers and sniper assasin took ethereal and a commander .Game over.
then breachers too over all the board infiltrators end the gam round 3 deep strike with wom on last group of deep strike force. GG. And i dont have to mention that against vehicles its even more dedlier cause 15+ breachers shoot 30 volley of rerolling all hits at 42" vs knights usually and every single one that pass its D6 damage.
Hydralic claw is d3 melee damage enough to take anything down.
atm i have 8 hydralic and 8 with out .

TEsting atm 9 plasmaphrons with flamers and infoskull sick.... i v started to eliminate hordes and deep striking forces like orcs easier im missing like 15-30 points to test them all in one list.

Yes. I mentioned a few pages back about how Manipulus is pretty awesome in the Tau matchup. Force them to come out and shoot me instead of turtling.

Oh. You run the Hydraulic instead of Arc Claw? How do the two compare? Is there an important advantage to Hydraulic Claw? I actually am not so sure about Breachers in melee in general, but clearly, they do something right. (As I said earlier, they don't seem to shoot or fight well, but they don't do it badly either. And they are very cheap for their stats.)

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, if you REALLY want a T1 charge, go with stygies dragoons. Admech has pretty much only decent units (the worse ones being the ruststalkers and corpuscarii) so youre free to build that list however you want. and as i said, even the threat pf getting a T2 charge with your fulgurites is a good thing, sacrificing units so others live is a sound strategy

With Corpuscarii being so bad that Nick Nanavati included 2x10 of them in this AdMech list in the beginning of 2019... ;-)

in what tournament? this is news to me. still, i didnt say they were bad, i said they were one of the worse we have in the codex. i dont feel like the units are the main problems with admech, its more of a relic/WT problem.

Nick used them in his Charityhammer army.

I wouldnt call them "worse" either. There's no better Gaunts or Boyz cleaners than 20 Corpuscarii DSed. They even do a decent job against Shining Spears with -hit stratagem applied due to pure amount of initial shots (although they really need rerolling 1s in shooting Canticle in such case).

Their usefulness is mostly limited to being DS nuke though - I'm trying to use them as an anticharge unit in Mars castle, but they are too expensive to be shot off the table, to fragile to stand, and their threat range is not enough to give them the initiative. If Manipulus bolstered all the units with +6" at least...

dadamowsky wrote:
I wouldnt call them "worse" either. There's no better Gaunts or Boyz cleaners than 20 Corpuscarii DSed. They even do a decent job against Shining Spears with -hit stratagem applied due to pure amount of initial shots (although they really need rerolling 1s in shooting Canticle in such case).

Their usefulness is mostly limited to being DS nuke though - I'm trying to use them as an anticharge unit in Mars castle, but they are too expensive to be shot off the table, to fragile to stand, and their threat range is not enough to give them the initiative. If Manipulus bolstered all the units with +6" at least...

im curious as to what other unit you think are worse than corpus, i mentioned ruststalkers but i think most of our other units are better overall

VladimirHerzog wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
I wouldnt call them "worse" either. There's no better Gaunts or Boyz cleaners than 20 Corpuscarii DSed. They even do a decent job against Shining Spears with -hit stratagem applied due to pure amount of initial shots (although they really need rerolling 1s in shooting Canticle in such case).

Their usefulness is mostly limited to being DS nuke though - I'm trying to use them as an anticharge unit in Mars castle, but they are too expensive to be shot off the table, to fragile to stand, and their threat range is not enough to give them the initiative. If Manipulus bolstered all the units with +6" at least...

im curious as to what other unit you think are worse than corpus, i mentioned ruststalkers but i think most of our other units are better overall

Neutron Onagers . Quite serious on this one - they whiff almost every time for me. Phosphor Onagers (if anyone actually remember they have this loadout at all). I'm on the fence with our Skitarii Troops - I can't seem to find them a niche outside of being overpriced slower Guardsman. If I try to run special weapons it's wasted points - they die, and do very little if anything at all. Apart from Transuranic, which are decent if there are LoS free lines avalaible. Enginseer - If there was anything else in the codex in place of this guy I'd swap him in an instance. Ruststalkers... quite a lot of nuking potential, due to being Skitarii and having more attacks, but they're still nowhere near as good as Fulgurites. Their Transonic Blades and Razor are a complete garbage though - idk what is the purpose of these weapons, as there's no scenario when Ruststalkers (even if picked up) would not use Cordclaws.

But the king of them all are Dragoons with Jezzail. I literary has never, ever, considered them in list building. For any purpose at all. The 63 points for a Heavy 2 sniper rifle with 30" and S5 no AP. Not even the Torsion Cannon can beat it.

dadamowsky wrote:


Neutron Onagers . Quite serious on this one - they whiff almost every time for me. Phosphor Onagers (if anyone actually remember they have this loadout at all). I'm on the fence with our Skitarii Troops - I can't seem to find them a niche outside of being overpriced slower Guardsman. If I try to run special weapons it's wasted points - they die, and do very little if anything at all. Apart from Transuranic, which are decent if there are LoS free lines avalaible. Enginseer - If there was anything else in the codex in place of this guy I'd swap him in an instance. Ruststalkers... quite a lot of nuking potential, due to being Skitarii and having more attacks, but they're still nowhere near as good as Fulgurites. Their Transonic Blades and Razor are a complete garbage though - idk what is the purpose of these weapons, as there's no scenario when Ruststalkers (even if picked up) would not use Cordclaws.

But the king of them all are Dragoons with Jezzail. I literary has never, ever, considered them in list building. For any purpose at all. The 63 points for a Heavy 2 sniper rifle with 30" and S5 no AP. Not even the Torsion Cannon can beat it.

oh sure, there is some gak loadouts but that doesnt mean the unit is bad.
I agree that neutron laser really suffers from the "lascannon curse".
vanguards have a ton of firepower to clear out chaff and are really good supporting units for our CC units.
rangers are good backfield objective holder.
both our skitarii troops are even better when we take in acount their points cost.
enginseer is really just a tax but at least they have the same healing capabilities as all our other techpriests (and im quite fond of taking one with the solar flare to score easy linebreaker)
ruststalkers make nice diorama figurines i guess?
i completely forgot that jezzail dragoons were a thing, yeah thats bad.

Are ruststalkers really that bad? I love their models but all i hear is badness around them. What about the infiltrator half of them?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Are ruststalkers really that bad? I love their models but all i hear is badness around them. What about the infiltrator half of them?

the problem with the ruststalkers is that they need to walk to their target and are quite squishy T3 4+/6++ W2/3 is easily blasted away. To add to this, they have 0 ranged capabilities, with the infiltrators, even if you miss your charge after deepstriking them , you at least got a ton of small arms fire, ruststalkers dont have that option. Even when they do reach their target, you really only look for 6's to wound on your Chordclaws to deal lots of mortal wounds. Unless you go for ryza, there is no way to reroll wounds. they simply lack the versatility of infiltrators, they play best as a counterchage unit. but if you need a countercharge unit theres better choices (electro-priests)

When i started using the list i was also skeptic about the efficiency of some units.
ME as we ll as you have teted in the field most units in even spammed them.
As i test the list furter and further i have to make decisions since its v v point heavy to work and cp. Some things will not work differently.

a) There is little point room for more than 3 Robots. 3-4 is the key number usually 3.
b) the point taking breachers is to take lots of them. Thus making your list hordish troopish.
Why well the whole idea behind it and you ll figure more as you play it is to make the enemies take same bad decisions as you had to when facing lets say a full knight list.

And i dont wanna write block of texts i give a clear example.

Castellan shooting a group of 4 breachers. its wasted shot vs anything else we got. 90-120 points that will most likely have 5-6 invu 1-2+ armor save and 3 hp/ model. its infantry its bbj secure etc etc.
Breachers cant shoot an cant fight why?
as i said i use 2*4 stock and 2*4 hydralic. Dominus with them always.
Round one breachers shooting 2 shots at 36+6 + movemnt if need. 6" remain inside manipulus if need round one. Can move and shoot and they are better of vs vehicles.
so i have 16*2 shots 32 shots str 6 -2 d3 or d6 damage. what and where will it fail . 1-5 wounds on any infantry is d3 damage on knights 2 wounds d6 damage rerolling every single hit with Cawl. If you make bigger groups like 6-9 of them you can give +1 shooting from maniple so bs3 rerolling all hits from Cawl. where is the issue?
what was ad mech missing ? a good screen T5 3W 30 points with 1+/4+ if you need. what else do you need. Sure its not top shooter but what you missing is Tank shooters and you definetly get good ones with breachers. and on top of that.
Melee breachers are 3 att each reroll all hits in melee as long as Dominus is nearby.
With hydralic you get 4 breachers 12 att hitting on 5s rerolling all but D3 damage str 10+.
Again you missing the point hen you have reroll all you depend on high str high damage so better wound options. And you ll need them vs vehicles where their job is.

If hordes charge you any screen that has enough bodies to hold them then a mech will fall back and obliterate. But when you invest in Robots plasma grav etc. you missing the antitank .If you take onagers you can kill nothing in melee. Effectively making ad mech paper gunline.

Breachers are effective vs vehicles. Even with bs5 damge d3 d6 on shooting is enough to kill T8 tanks knights etc. and tough enough to stand their ground.
IF you use 2 cp aquisition at all costs then you suddenly have a unit with 1+ save 4+ invu 12+ wounds +1 att so it will be 16 att etc.
For the non hydralic i dont have points and i just have to let them like that. + some armies dont need the extra antivehicle or i can split forces and dont have rerolls or use the reroll ones and +1 str canticles.

So why not i got a force that vaporizes anything anything effectively of the board with top range and finally cheap breachers to screen and support all i need. Ad mech for me atm is one of the armies able to take Castellan round one down besides other castellans.

And doing so with infantry units that is really hard for enemies to counter easily.

Sure you ll say if you face 3 Crusaders list etc. You cant win them all but i tell you is your hard match ups like the one i played vs 7 fliers in the last tour is most likely who will go first.
And that is v v good if you consider most likely you would loose with most armies vs
Guard castellan
eldarishsss Fliers
Orks etc...
So vs top tier armeis we alreay know now you go a pretty good chance as they have. and you will till the last round.

Infiltrators. Deep strike free 2 wounds each 5 shots each if the game goes badly it means you ll have 2 cp to use wom on them and so far i ave killed many chars or hostile deep strikes with it. So yes Mars take infiltrators for me 5-8 one unit perfect.

Now important to note. WT relics etc you can decide on enemy basis so usually you need to decide in each game

a) Extra healing and New warlord trait extra for reviving kataprhons. usually vs lots of damage 1 weapons
b) 6s take back cp if no need rest.
c) assasin
those are serious different options / game.

Now variations exist. i play with snipers and infiltrators. I see the list shines more full kataphrons. I dont have more than 24 so i use 24. i see lists with 30+ i dont have and i want infiltrators assasins etc.

in the small list 2 battalions i use 4 robots 9 plasma + rest 13cp
in the big one 3 battalions i use 3 Robots 10 plasma +rest 18cp.

There is still lot of testing and list optimizig.
i started 7th in my first tourney ended up second in the last and from that point on i have not lost yet.
i will test more unf i dont have time since my job enters high season to go abroad atm and test in a bigger event.
any experience or feedback welcomed

Yeah, i noticed that, but at 143pts for 10 with blades doesnt sound too bad.
Then again ork mentality is probably seeping into my judgement again.

...

...lemmie guess the blades are actually the bad option lol.

edit: im still deciding what to buy basically. I already have 5 ruststalkers because of killteam box.

At least Infiltrators don't need any support. They can get to their targets kinda fine.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, i noticed that, but at 143pts for 10 with blades doesnt sound too bad.
Then again ork mentality is probably seeping into my judgement again.

...

...lemmie guess the blades are actually the bad option lol.

edit: im still deciding what to buy basically. I already have 5 ruststalkers because of killteam box.

orks can actually charge turn 1 reliably, not ruststalkers, theres the main difference. The razors are the good pick, but just because they include chordclaws.
the strength is irrelevant since youre fishing for mortal wounds on 6's and with AP 0, youre not a threat to most other units

Welp glad i didnt paint those 5 ruststalkers yet lol i better snip their blades off...but they look so much cooler!!

Also i was more going to use them as a deterrent than a downfield unit. My locals love deepstriking squads of assault marines or other such quick units behind enemy lines to try and snipe things like my SAG mek, objective holding grots, or try to pincer my other models.

As orks i have answers to such tactics, as admech i kinda felt my only true answer was too expensive to leave on my half of the board (priests), relying on a ball of rangers gunning them down anyway., or too big to keep concealed to their long guns dont pulverize it first (robots, which technically fall under the expensive part too)

 Yoda79 wrote:
When i started using the list i was also skeptic about the efficiency of some units.
ME as we ll as you have teted in the field most units in even spammed them.
As i test the list furter and further i have to make decisions since its v v point heavy to work and cp. Some things will not work differently.

a) There is little point room for more than 3 Robots. 3-4 is the key number usually 3.
b) the point taking breachers is to take lots of them. Thus making your list hordish troopish.
Why well the whole idea behind it and you ll figure more as you play it is to make the enemies take same bad decisions as you had to when facing lets say a full knight list.

And i dont wanna write block of texts i give a clear example.

Castellan shooting a group of 4 breachers. its wasted shot vs anything else we got. 90-120 points that will most likely have 5-6 invu 1-2+ armor save and 3 hp/ model. its infantry its bbj secure etc etc.
Breachers cant shoot an cant fight why?
as i said i use 2*4 stock and 2*4 hydralic. Dominus with them always.
Round one breachers shooting 2 shots at 36+6 + movemnt if need. 6" remain inside manipulus if need round one. Can move and shoot and they are better of vs vehicles.
so i have 16*2 shots 32 shots str 6 -2 d3 or d6 damage. what and where will it fail . 1-5 wounds on any infantry is d3 damage on knights 2 wounds d6 damage rerolling every single hit with Cawl. If you make bigger groups like 6-9 of them you can give +1 shooting from maniple so bs3 rerolling all hits from Cawl. where is the issue?
what was ad mech missing ? a good screen T5 3W 30 points with 1+/4+ if you need. what else do you need. Sure its not top shooter but what you missing is Tank shooters and you definetly get good ones with breachers. and on top of that.
Melee breachers are 3 att each reroll all hits in melee as long as Dominus is nearby.
With hydralic you get 4 breachers 12 att hitting on 5s rerolling all but D3 damage str 10+.
Again you missing the point hen you have reroll all you depend on high str high damage so better wound options. And you ll need them vs vehicles where their job is.

If hordes charge you any screen that has enough bodies to hold them then a mech will fall back and obliterate. But when you invest in Robots plasma grav etc. you missing the antitank .If you take onagers you can kill nothing in melee. Effectively making ad mech paper gunline.

Breachers are effective vs vehicles. Even with bs5 damge d3 d6 on shooting is enough to kill T8 tanks knights etc. and tough enough to stand their ground.
IF you use 2 cp aquisition at all costs then you suddenly have a unit with 1+ save 4+ invu 12+ wounds +1 att so it will be 16 att etc.
For the non hydralic i dont have points and i just have to let them like that. + some armies dont need the extra antivehicle or i can split forces and dont have rerolls or use the reroll ones and +1 str canticles.

So why not i got a force that vaporizes anything anything effectively of the board with top range and finally cheap breachers to screen and support all i need. Ad mech for me atm is one of the armies able to take Castellan round one down besides other castellans.

And doing so with infantry units that is really hard for enemies to counter easily.

Sure you ll say if you face 3 Crusaders list etc. You cant win them all but i tell you is your hard match ups like the one i played vs 7 fliers in the last tour is most likely who will go first.
And that is v v good if you consider most likely you would loose with most armies vs
Guard castellan
eldarishsss Fliers
Orks etc...
So vs top tier armeis we alreay know now you go a pretty good chance as they have. and you will till the last round.

Infiltrators. Deep strike free 2 wounds each 5 shots each if the game goes badly it means you ll have 2 cp to use wom on them and so far i ave killed many chars or hostile deep strikes with it. So yes Mars take infiltrators for me 5-8 one unit perfect.

Now important to note. WT relics etc you can decide on enemy basis so usually you need to decide in each game

a) Extra healing and New warlord trait extra for reviving kataprhons. usually vs lots of damage 1 weapons
b) 6s take back cp if no need rest.
c) assasin
those are serious different options / game.

Now variations exist. i play with snipers and infiltrators. I see the list shines more full kataphrons. I dont have more than 24 so i use 24. i see lists with 30+ i dont have and i want infiltrators assasins etc.

in the small list 2 battalions i use 4 robots 9 plasma + rest 13cp
in the big one 3 battalions i use 3 Robots 10 plasma +rest 18cp.

There is still lot of testing and list optimizig.
i started 7th in my first tourney ended up second in the last and from that point on i have not lost yet.
i will test more unf i dont have time since my job enters high season to go abroad atm and test in a bigger event.
any experience or feedback welcomed

Yoda,

I’m glad your back posting regularly. I love your enthusiasm and the updates on breachers are good to hear. As someone who is yet to purchase any kataphron models it’s encouraging that they are proving a valuable purchase

What’s your latest list? I could gather bits and pieces from the above but there are gaps in my understanding of what your bringing to the table

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Welp glad i didnt paint those 5 ruststalkers yet lol i better snip their blades off...but they look so much cooler!!

Also i was more going to use them as a deterrent than a downfield unit. My locals love deepstriking squads of assault marines or other such quick units behind enemy lines to try and snipe things like my SAG mek, objective holding grots, or try to pincer my other models.

As orks i have answers to such tactics, as admech i kinda felt my only true answer was too expensive to leave on my half of the board (priests), relying on a ball of rangers gunning them down anyway., or too big to keep concealed to their long guns dont pulverize it first (robots, which technically fall under the expensive part too)

if youre getting caught by stuff deepstriking behind you, you should work on your screening, make sure there is no spot behind your lines that a unit could deepstrike in. enginseers work wonders for this, since they dont provide much, make sure to have spread out as much to makes sure the corners of the battlemat are safe. if they ever need to heal something, they can advance toward it


as for the front of your army, make sure that your units are at least 5" from your gunline, spreading our is really important, that way assault units can't consolidate into your gunline, they have to charge again. dont be afraid to send your dominus / manipulus / cawl to fend off the assaulting units (try to get a heroic intervention so they cannot get shot) since they have pretty decent melee capabilitied (sure a smash captain will rip through them but against hordes they can clear a few)

dadamowsky wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
I wouldnt call them "worse" either. There's no better Gaunts or Boyz cleaners than 20 Corpuscarii DSed. They even do a decent job against Shining Spears with -hit stratagem applied due to pure amount of initial shots (although they really need rerolling 1s in shooting Canticle in such case).

Their usefulness is mostly limited to being DS nuke though - I'm trying to use them as an anticharge unit in Mars castle, but they are too expensive to be shot off the table, to fragile to stand, and their threat range is not enough to give them the initiative. If Manipulus bolstered all the units with +6" at least...

im curious as to what other unit you think are worse than corpus, i mentioned ruststalkers but i think most of our other units are better overall

Neutron Onagers . Quite serious on this one - they whiff almost every time for me. Phosphor Onagers (if anyone actually remember they have this loadout at all). I'm on the fence with our Skitarii Troops - I can't seem to find them a niche outside of being overpriced slower Guardsman. If I try to run special weapons it's wasted points - they die, and do very little if anything at all. Apart from Transuranic, which are decent if there are LoS free lines avalaible. Enginseer - If there was anything else in the codex in place of this guy I'd swap him in an instance. Ruststalkers... quite a lot of nuking potential, due to being Skitarii and having more attacks, but they're still nowhere near as good as Fulgurites. Their Transonic Blades and Razor are a complete garbage though - idk what is the purpose of these weapons, as there's no scenario when Ruststalkers (even if picked up) would not use Cordclaws.

But the king of them all are Dragoons with Jezzail. I literary has never, ever, considered them in list building. For any purpose at all. The 63 points for a Heavy 2 sniper rifle with 30" and S5 no AP. Not even the Torsion Cannon can beat it.

You are forgetting the best one: Datasmith :p

 lash92 wrote:

You are forgetting the best one: Datasmith :p

theyre not horrible honestly, they have good stats, the problem is that theyre hindered by the fact that you cant put them in squads

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 lash92 wrote:

You are forgetting the best one: Datasmith :p

theyre not horrible honestly, they have good stats, the problem is that theyre hindered by the fact that you cant put them in squads

Thats not a problem with the datasmith but rather the stratagem to instantly change protocols.

In my list of wanted rules I removed the stratagem, made robots a bit cheaper, fistelans get +1 to ws and the datasmith now changes the protocols instantly on a 4+, on a 1+ without fails it changes next turn.

 lash92 wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:

VladimirHerzog wrote:

dadamowsky wrote:
I wouldnt call them "worse" either. There's no better Gaunts or Boyz cleaners than 20 Corpuscarii DSed. They even do a decent job against Shining Spears with -hit stratagem applied due to pure amount of initial shots (although they really need rerolling 1s in shooting Canticle in such case).

Their usefulness is mostly limited to being DS nuke though - I'm trying to use them as an anticharge unit in Mars castle, but they are too expensive to be shot off the table, to fragile to stand, and their threat range is not enough to give them the initiative. If Manipulus bolstered all the units with +6" at least...

im curious as to what other unit you think are worse than corpus, i mentioned ruststalkers but i think most of our other units are better overall

Neutron Onagers . Quite serious on this one - they whiff almost every time for me. Phosphor Onagers (if anyone actually remember they have this loadout at all). I'm on the fence with our Skitarii Troops - I can't seem to find them a niche outside of being overpriced slower Guardsman. If I try to run special weapons it's wasted points - they die, and do very little if anything at all. Apart from Transuranic, which are decent if there are LoS free lines avalaible. Enginseer - If there was anything else in the codex in place of this guy I'd swap him in an instance. Ruststalkers... quite a lot of nuking potential, due to being Skitarii and having more attacks, but they're still nowhere near as good as Fulgurites. Their Transonic Blades and Razor are a complete garbage though - idk what is the purpose of these weapons, as there's no scenario when Ruststalkers (even if picked up) would not use Cordclaws.

But the king of them all are Dragoons with Jezzail. I literary has never, ever, considered them in list building. For any purpose at all. The 63 points for a Heavy 2 sniper rifle with 30" and S5 no AP. Not even the Torsion Cannon can beat it.

You are forgetting the best one: Datasmith :p

Since Datasmiths are required to use the +3" charge stratagem they at least have a purpose. Their statline is not bad either - it's just... they are so under the radar I forgot they exist

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [72 PL, 7CP, 796pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Mars

Specialist Detachment: Servitor Maniple [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Dominus [7 PL, 90pts]: Macrostubber, Volkite Blaster

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Troops +

Kataphron Breachers [16 PL, 120pts]
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

Kataphron Breachers [16 PL, 124pts]
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw

Kataphron Destroyers [30 PL, 432pts]
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin
. Kataphron Destroyer: Phosphor Blaster, Plasma Culverin

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [84 PL, 5CP, 1119pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [5CP]

Forge World Choice: Forge World: Mars

+ HQ +

Belisarius Cawl [13 PL, 190pts]

Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 90pts]: Magnarail lance

+ Troops +

Kataphron Breachers [16 PL, 120pts]
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle
. Kataphron Breacher: Arc Claw, Heavy Arc Rifle

Kataphron Breachers [16 PL, 124pts]
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw
. Kataphron Breacher: Heavy Arc Rifle, Hydraulic Claw

Skitarii Rangers [4 PL, 65pts]
. Ranger Alpha: Galvanic Rifle
. 2x Skitarii Ranger
. 2x Skitarii Ranger (Transuranic Arquebus): 2x Transuranic Arquebus

+ Elites +

Sicarian Infiltrators [6 PL, 90pts]
. Infiltrator Princeps
. . Flechette Blaster and Taser Goad: Flechette Blaster, Taser Goad
. 4x Sicarian Infiltrator (Flechette/Taser): 4x Flechette Blaster, 4x Taser Goad

+ Heavy Support +

Kastelan Robots [24 PL, 440pts]
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. Kastelan Robot: Heavy Phosphor Blaster
. . Two Heavy Phosphor Blasters: 2x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

++ Total: [156 PL, 12CP, 1915pts] ++




Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can understand the details i v posted enough times.

This is brutal and needs to be handled with care. watch your cp its important and how you use them.

Depending on enemy you can use.

your extra cp to get as many as you believe you need 5+ invu.
You can increase or decrease the 4 man breacher teams to play with one bigger unit that you can always give the 5+ testing that atm.
You can spend extra cp on extra warlord trait according to enemy.

Dont forget that assasins got some cool stratagems and all prodice with cp 2 cp if they kill a char.

Enjoy and practise you ll need it.

Atm i m testing more smaller units even two units of plasma instead of one. to make a triple battalion. more or less same units . Enjoy.

For filling out the rest of the points, you could max the Ranger squad and add another Arq. Then use the Strategem to increase their hit rate.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
For filling out the rest of the points, you could max the Ranger squad and add another Arq. Then use the Strategem to increase their hit rate.

He wants to have spare 85p for assasin

 Yoda79 wrote:
When i started using the list i was also skeptic about the efficiency of some units.
ME as we ll as you have teted in the field most units in even spammed them.
As i test the list furter and further i have to make decisions since its v v point heavy to work and cp. Some things will not work differently.

a) There is little point room for more than 3 Robots. 3-4 is the key number usually 3.
b) the point taking breachers is to take lots of them. Thus making your list hordish troopish.
Why well the whole idea behind it and you ll figure more as you play it is to make the enemies take same bad decisions as you had to when facing lets say a full knight list.

And i dont wanna write block of texts i give a clear example.

Castellan shooting a group of 4 breachers. its wasted shot vs anything else we got. 90-120 points that will most likely have 5-6 invu 1-2+ armor save and 3 hp/ model. its infantry its bbj secure etc etc.
Breachers cant shoot an cant fight why?
as i said i use 2*4 stock and 2*4 hydralic. Dominus with them always.
Round one breachers shooting 2 shots at 36+6 + movemnt if need. 6" remain inside manipulus if need round one. Can move and shoot and they are better of vs vehicles.
so i have 16*2 shots 32 shots str 6 -2 d3 or d6 damage. what and where will it fail . 1-5 wounds on any infantry is d3 damage on knights 2 wounds d6 damage rerolling every single hit with Cawl. If you make bigger groups like 6-9 of them you can give +1 shooting from maniple so bs3 rerolling all hits from Cawl. where is the issue?
what was ad mech missing ? a good screen T5 3W 30 points with 1+/4+ if you need. what else do you need. Sure its not top shooter but what you missing is Tank shooters and you definetly get good ones with breachers. and on top of that.
Melee breachers are 3 att each reroll all hits in melee as long as Dominus is nearby.
With hydralic you get 4 breachers 12 att hitting on 5s rerolling all but D3 damage str 10+.
Again you missing the point hen you have reroll all you depend on high str high damage so better wound options. And you ll need them vs vehicles where their job is.

If hordes charge you any screen that has enough bodies to hold them then a mech will fall back and obliterate. But when you invest in Robots plasma grav etc. you missing the antitank .If you take onagers you can kill nothing in melee. Effectively making ad mech paper gunline.

Breachers are effective vs vehicles. Even with bs5 damge d3 d6 on shooting is enough to kill T8 tanks knights etc. and tough enough to stand their ground.
IF you use 2 cp aquisition at all costs then you suddenly have a unit with 1+ save 4+ invu 12+ wounds +1 att so it will be 16 att etc.
For the non hydralic i dont have points and i just have to let them like that. + some armies dont need the extra antivehicle or i can split forces and dont have rerolls or use the reroll ones and +1 str canticles.

So why not i got a force that vaporizes anything anything effectively of the board with top range and finally cheap breachers to screen and support all i need. Ad mech for me atm is one of the armies able to take Castellan round one down besides other castellans.

And doing so with infantry units that is really hard for enemies to counter easily.

Sure you ll say if you face 3 Crusaders list etc. You cant win them all but i tell you is your hard match ups like the one i played vs 7 fliers in the last tour is most likely who will go first.
And that is v v good if you consider most likely you would loose with most armies vs
Guard castellan
eldarishsss Fliers
Orks etc...
So vs top tier armeis we alreay know now you go a pretty good chance as they have. and you will till the last round.

Infiltrators. Deep strike free 2 wounds each 5 shots each if the game goes badly it means you ll have 2 cp to use wom on them and so far i ave killed many chars or hostile deep strikes with it. So yes Mars take infiltrators for me 5-8 one unit perfect.

Now important to note. WT relics etc you can decide on enemy basis so usually you need to decide in each game

a) Extra healing and New warlord trait extra for reviving kataprhons. usually vs lots of damage 1 weapons
b) 6s take back cp if no need rest.
c) assasin
those are serious different options / game.

Now variations exist. i play with snipers and infiltrators. I see the list shines more full kataphrons. I dont have more than 24 so i use 24. i see lists with 30+ i dont have and i want infiltrators assasins etc.

in the small list 2 battalions i use 4 robots 9 plasma + rest 13cp
in the big one 3 battalions i use 3 Robots 10 plasma +rest 18cp.

There is still lot of testing and list optimizig.
i started 7th in my first tourney ended up second in the last and from that point on i have not lost yet.
i will test more unf i dont have time since my job enters high season to go abroad atm and test in a bigger event.
any experience or feedback welcomed

How are your breachers re-rolling all their fight phase attacks? Best i've seen is Prime Hermeticon WT which is re-roll failed hits. Unless thats what you meant?

Are the two forgeworld unit options any good? Both of them feel really lackluster to me.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Are the two forgeworld unit options any good? Both of them feel really lackluster to me.

i've seen people praise the hoplites in drills but ive never seen them shine all that much, as for the peltasts, i quite like that they get multi-use weapons but it feels like theyve got something missing, at the minimum, access to the dogmas would be nice.

I prefer my hoplites as footslogers

Yes it was stupid not to give them dogmas.

As to why their good its a pt more than vanguard and better at shredding light vehicles.

Plus as a frontline buffer they are solid 4++ mortal wounding on 6's is a strong defence for their pts

i dont use FW units like drills peltasts etc. Hoplites i would love to use but i play ETC.

Prime hermeticon yes reroll all miss hits melee. All hit first rounds from Cawl in shooting.

85 points for the assasin.

So far i used either 2*6*2 rangers with transonic. or 1*10*3 transonic.But after playing some games i made a decision and left only one group since i dont have points for more and usually i take the sniper assasin so its enough .

I also played with a unit of vanguard. And i might do it again. Either remove one Destroyer or make the units of breachers as i had them 3*5 and more sniper and vanguard. I used vanguard for their -1T in cc and i have to say when i did it on a knight was v v good for my non hydralic breachers.
The problem is 5 vanguard almost never almost like 1/5 games particiapte stay alive etc etc. So this build this list seems focused on a specific plan. Its no big deal to make the list with 10 man rangers 3 snipers and 4-5 vanguards reducing the breachers to 5 man.
As i said im still testing lists details as well a a list with 3 battalions and even more b split breachers.

 Yoda79 wrote:

I also played with a unit of vanguard. And i might do it again. Either remove one Destroyer or make the units of breachers as i had them 3*5 and more sniper and vanguard. I used vanguard for their -1T in cc and i have to say when i did it on a knight was v v good for my non hydralic breachers.

Vanguards' -1T works only on the "enemy units, other than VEHICLES".

 Kumak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
For filling out the rest of the points, you could max the Ranger squad and add another Arq. Then use the Strategem to increase their hit rate.

He wants to have spare 85p for assasin

I honestly thought that was a spare 85 points outside the spare assassin. My mistake.

dadamowsky wrote:

 Yoda79 wrote:

I also played with a unit of vanguard. And i might do it again. Either remove one Destroyer or make the units of breachers as i had them 3*5 and more sniper and vanguard. I used vanguard for their -1T in cc and i have to say when i did it on a knight was v v good for my non hydralic breachers.

Vanguards' -1T works only on the "enemy units, other than VEHICLES".

True and good I removed I since not only I played it wrong but tbh I have not managed to utilize it properly. So better of . Can't take 10 man vangards to get one group in combat and in the end for a semi result I tried but as with most cc units n ad mech their are usually slow or out of position. And beside breachers if you are going to take troops you will need sygies graia etc. So far for me with Mars no small troop srvives either way .

Wait. There are 16 Breachers and 9 Destroyers in your army? :O

Do you find that the Breachers make their points back with just shooting? How important is it that they close with your opponent? (The fact that I am having a hard time understanding how to use them is good. It means most opponents will have no idea at all what to expect.)