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Rex2490 wrote: Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text:
‘Infantry Officer model only.’
Change the first sentence to read:
‘During deployment, you can set up the bearer and
one Astra Militarum Infantry unit from your
army behind enemy lines instead of placing them on
the battlefield.
There goes that, too.
*Tim the Enchanter shouting "I warned you!" faintly in the distance*
Yeah there was no way that one was gonna stick around.
In the other news maybe the Castellan being nerfed will mean we'll see more variety in armor and units now. It's still stupid powerful though. I mean if you think about it you lose one more robot to afford it. Yeah it sucks but it's not like the Castellan is useless, just not quite as busted. Probably will just see other knights pick up the slack for it but at least now we know we're not going to have to chew through a 3+ invuln knight in most games.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Was worried about charging flyers for a moment, then saw the As If ruling and the Overwatch changes.
So on the down side, you can no longer use stratagems during "as if" phases. Hurts a lot of other factions much more than us, I guess, but it does make our Destroyers less ridiculous. On the other hand, rerolls during Overwatch and Autocaduceus are an insane buff for shooting and a nerf to melee.
Thank goodness for the Aircraft changes too. They were blocking all sorts of things with those.
Rex2490 wrote: Page 138 – The Dagger of Tu’Sakh
Add the following sentence at the start of the rules text: ‘Infantry Officer model only.’ Change the first sentence to read: ‘During deployment, you can set up the bearer and one Astra Militarum Infantry unit from your army behind enemy lines instead of placing them on the battlefield.
- DS them as usual, and so disembark at 9" from any enemies;
- Start on the board, that way you can move for one turn, disembark the next, still have your movement and charge with the Drill to soak Overwatch;
- Infiltrate the Drill with Stygies, try to have first turn, start 9" from the enemy and disembark on your turn, for a less than 3" charge
Stygies one is dead now though.
Why is the Stygies one dead? Didn't the only change to disembarking occur with DESTROYED transports?
So we sadly can´t outflank Kataphrons anymore (which was expected to get fixed to be fair).
What does this mean for us if we wanna field them still? A big unit of 12 in case we get alpha struck? 2 units of 6?
lash92 wrote: So we sadly can´t outflank Kataphrons anymore (which was expected to get fixed to be fair).
What does this mean for us if we wanna field them still? A big unit of 12 in case we get alpha struck? 2 units of 6?
Hide them behind a building/ ITC ruin and move out turn 1 and fire.
1x12 / 2x6 - depends on buffs, if running ryzaphrons and you need the damage from the strat, probably go 12 otherwise might be better for 2x6 for two reasons:
1. Aggripina bring back strat.
2. Prevent 1 small unit getting through your lines and locking up 600pts of your army in combat...
Oooh. Hits keep coming.
- Mob Up only works for Boyz now.
- Eldar paired spells and Doom are only available to Craftworld Eldar.
- CP recycling for spells also count toward the 1 per turn cap.
- Bolter Discipline no longer works on vehicle sponsons and such.
- Assassin requisition now costs 2 CP for both matched and narrative play.
Very nice. Lots of nerfs passing over us.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 08:22:00
Suzuteo wrote: HA HA. So glad I went with the Krast Styrix.
Was worried about charging flyers for a moment, then saw the As If ruling and the Overwatch changes.
So on the down side, you can no longer use stratagems during "as if" phases. Hurts a lot of other factions much more than us, I guess, but it does make our Destroyers less ridiculous. On the other hand, rerolls during Overwatch and Autocaduceus are an insane buff for shooting and a nerf to melee.
- DS them as usual, and so disembark at 9" from any enemies;
- Start on the board, that way you can move for one turn, disembark the next, still have your movement and charge with the Drill to soak Overwatch;
- Infiltrate the Drill with Stygies, try to have first turn, start 9" from the enemy and disembark on your turn, for a less than 3" charge
Stygies one is dead now though.
Why is the Stygies one dead? Didn't the only change to disembarking occur with DESTROYED transports?
What do you mean with the Autocaduceus ? I don't quite grasp the link between it and rerolls ?
And I say Stygies' one is dead because the stupid Beta Rules passed and now Infiltrate is just a 9" move before first turn, so your opponent knows where you're going to be moving and you can't get as close as before. you can still move the Drill 9" before start, and then disembark the Priests on T1, 3" disembark and move, 6", so overall 18" move more or less from your frontline on T1. It's still good but way more predictable.
I've been keeping away from Stygies at 2000 pts for a while since it relies too much on getting first turn, and I only get first turn when playing Drukhari as if it's built in the army. On the other hand DS on T2 hurts too, that means less distraction Fistellans and more shooting in my face. I'll definitely have to think about that when listbuilding. I can play them on the board and charge 2d6+3" with Power Surge I guess.
What do you mean with the Autocaduceus ? I don't quite grasp the link between it and rerolls ?
I think he meant Rainment. Right now, with rerolls, Rainment can generate another rerollable attack. Which in a high volume of fire, and Cawl around, makes quite a difference.
Transport - 132 1x Termite Assault Drill - Storm Bolter
Elite - 176 11x Fulgurite Electro-Priest
Heavy Support - 224 1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 475
Lord of War - 475 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Reaper Chainsword, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 1998 points 13 CP (-2)
This one is the least invasive. I cut a Crawler and the Assassin to put some Breachers and Infiltrators in.
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 475
Lord of War - 475 1x Knight Styrix - Volkite Chierovile, Reaper Chainsword, Graviton Crusher, Warlord: First Knight (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 2000 points 13 CP (-2)
A bit more drastic. Cut all three Crawlers and the Assassin for two units of Breachers, a larger unit of Infiltrators, and gave 4x sniper rifles on the Ranger.
EDIT: Oops, Omnispex is 7 points, not 5?! Weird. I guess I have 10 spare points? Hm. Guess I will put some data tethers on the snipers in case I want to give one of them +2 to hit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ideasweasel wrote: @Suzuteo what do you mean you can no longer use stratagems during as if phases.
I think I missed that. So overwatch we can reroll via Cawl but we couldn’t wrath of mars yeah?
My Castellan is also magnetised to be a Valiant! Shame that’s also rubbish lol
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also what! Assassin nerf already aww
Pretty much. We also used to be able to Infoslave Servo Skull into Wrath of Mars or Plasma Specialists. Lol.
Yeah, sad. CP negative now.
Aaranis wrote: What do you mean with the Autocaduceus ? I don't quite grasp the link between it and rerolls ?
And I say Stygies' one is dead because the stupid Beta Rules passed and now Infiltrate is just a 9" move before first turn, so your opponent knows where you're going to be moving and you can't get as close as before. you can still move the Drill 9" before start, and then disembark the Priests on T1, 3" disembark and move, 6", so overall 18" move more or less from your frontline on T1. It's still good but way more predictable.
I meant Raiment, sorry.
True. It's not dead though. The most successful list still uses it. Fact is, a lot of ITC maps favor getting that 9" move. It also really punishes them for having Scouts because the Fulgurites just gobble a unit up and become unkillable. At worst, it simply makes Dragoons and Drills a Distraction Carnifex.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/04/30 10:41:20
So I guess the Manipulus is supposed to be 90 points?
Anyone have a link to the article where they started it’s points should be between enginseer and a dominus. I’m thinking of emailing them and linking that as a reference for them.
lash92 wrote: So we sadly can´t outflank Kataphrons anymore (which was expected to get fixed to be fair).
What does this mean for us if we wanna field them still? A big unit of 12 in case we get alpha struck? 2 units of 6?
Hide them behind a building/ ITC ruin and move out turn 1 and fire.
1x12 / 2x6 - depends on buffs, if running ryzaphrons and you need the damage from the strat, probably go 12 otherwise might be better for 2x6 for two reasons:
1. Aggripina bring back strat.
2. Prevent 1 small unit getting through your lines and locking up 600pts of your army in combat...
Might get quite hard to hide 12 destroyers Even with ITC terrain.
Hey guys! I have a question about a thing happened in my last game: during my turn i used a datasmith to succesfully change my robot's protocol from aegis to protector, in the enemy turn i used the stratagem to change the protocol from aegis to conqueror. Here's the problem: my friend think that in my next turn the protocol change to protector and since i've used the stratagem are stuck with that for the rest of the game, I think that since I've used the stratagem the previous change is blocked and my bots are stuck in conqueror.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 14:09:34
Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait
Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom
Household Choice: House Taranis, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 352pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: The Paragon Gauntlet, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
Exalted Court [-1CP]: Exalted Court: 1 Extra Warlord Trait
Heirlooms of the Household [-1CP]: Heirlooms of the Household: 1 Extra Heirloom
Household Choice: House Taranis, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Knight Gallant [20 PL, 352pts]: Character (Exalted Court), Character (Heirloom of the House), Heavy Stubber, Heirloom: The Paragon Gauntlet, Reaper Chainsword, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
Do you guys think i should kick one chicken an some skitarii for an neutronager? I rly dunno XD
5 Dragoons can be a bit unwieldy to get intro position with terrain etc, I've found 4 to be the better unit size so with that in mind you can already cut one of them and maybe some vanguard for another onager.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 15:18:10
2500+ pts of Ad Mech
2000+ pts of Deathwatch
2000+ pts of Skaven
RiceFields92 wrote:Hey guys! I have a question about a thing happened in my last game: during my turn i used a datasmith to succesfully change my robot's protocol from aegis to protector, in the enemy turn i used the stratagem to change the protocol from aegis to conqueror. Here's the problem: my friend think that in my next turn the protocol change to protector and since i've used the stratagem are stuck with that for the rest of the game, I think that since I've used the stratagem the previous change is blocked and my bots are stuck in conqueror.
Pretty sure your friend is right. Overriding the change wiht binharic ovveride locks your robots in that protocol, the fact that the delayed protocol swap from the datasmith "should" change them is blocked by that new "rule" that the stratagem puts on the bots.
VladimirHerzog wrote:Pretty sure your friend is right. Overriding the change wiht binharic ovveride locks your robots in that protocol, the fact that the delayed protocol swap from the datasmith "should" change them is blocked by that new "rule" that the stratagem puts on the bots.
Ok so I'm the one right, not my friend XD
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 16:49:41
VladimirHerzog wrote:Pretty sure your friend is right. Overriding the change wiht binharic ovveride locks your robots in that protocol, the fact that the delayed protocol swap from the datasmith "should" change them is blocked by that new "rule" that the stratagem puts on the bots.
the change on fly is important for us as with all gun lines. The Cawl buff is nice and i use raiment already.
Still the need for good screen becomes even more demanding.
if a breacher cant tank it then none can. Maybe Dragoons for the -2 to get it so the enemy have to come melee to kill them . But still the problem remains.
I would gladly play 3 battalions MArs ryza and Grai or stygies. but somewhat i dont know why so much the consistency only comes from pure lists.
Especially now we turtle again up with the fly rule i found even if Ryzaplasma is a super effective plan i cant seem to use it with better results than a full Mars list.
i tried MArs battalion with 3- plasma destroyers and a vigilus detatchment all Ryza. Sure it was fun Sure breachers benefit from +1 wound and ryzafrons are a force.
But the list is not the same. you missing Cawl or you might need to remove him or wont work o your vigilus detachment (ryza) you wont get consistent shroud for your advancing Ryza blop.
And i do like my Ryza blop a dominus leading 18 kataphrons 2*6and 1*6 i still find it subpar atm.
Maybe you need to have 2 battalions to make it count...
dominus
enginseer
1*6 breacher
1*6 breacher
1*6 destroyer plasma
and
Agripina
dominus
enginseer
whatever what ever
and 1*6 destroyers grav.
Even so you can buff both you cant overcome -1 to hit you cant cant cant.
So some weird reason i m using all point buffs super effectie as a blop. unfortunate but true.
As a huge blop Mars i have. 2 canticles each round more less what i want.
Ignore cover from Robots for trash campers.
REroll all miss from Cawl.
Reroll al lmiss on melee from hermeticon.
Wrath of mars where need.
Elimination Volley cheap 2 cp for +1+1
+1 from vigilus on shooting where i need extra or if i dont need on Robots.
Maipulus all buffed.
raiment all buffed.
5+ invu from vigilus on all my kataprhons
This sums up i beleive the extra edge the point where the list can perform in greater tier than any other simple lists.
The amount of buffs stacking on the whole list.
Less mobile sure but its lethal. ITs so lethal that i can asure you if you easure up properly vs any gun line if you play first you ll see a miracle.
I have removed the assasin for various reason main the 2cp to get him and the posibility a list will get 4-5 in it default. So we cant ll have them atm.
I seriously consider the list with Custodes still testing. Seems with the new rules somewhat the list completes it self with a good hq fly anti char since atm the only iseu i see with the return of the fly rule we need something killer in melee with mobility. Seems like the list will be complete with custodes.
I know i ssaid i ll try mono Ad mech but the fly rule gives me two options.
1) take 100 points of priests and have them hidden to counter attach most likely vs anything on my robots. and its most likely the way i ll play it for friendly testing.
While the list with some custodes hq might eb the right amount of missing mobility and char killer we need with low cp usage.
@suzuteo.
If you dont have the Mars canticles (Shroud) if you dont have vigilus +1 to hit 5+ invu return one kataprhon from the dead.
Hermeticon to reroll melee etc etc. if you dont go that way you most likely not need breachers. better of with more dragoons.
Breachers for me are super annoy for the enemies i fought so far. That 2+ armor and 5+ invu 3w each is ball breaker and 3-4 attacks in melee. ITs nasty.
while destroyers can use infoslave and i am using it even if 3-4 reach to fire incoming enemies. ITs a plan.
If you take knighta take +3+6 cp with armogers or knights. they will do the job and support them with ad mech stygies etc. one list can be eavy high T model list that wil win most games with no preparation. Or make a TRoop heavy list but you eed the buffs. You need even more troops than i say i see lists with 30 kataphrons working better. Make a plan and play it. make the list and take the advantage i repeat. Mixing good units wont win. Make a plan.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/30 20:43:47
@Yoda79
I figured -1 to hit Breachers could be useful in holding objectives and providing some supporting fire. My list is majority melee, so I expect most action to occur midfield.
Is 5++ really necessary? If they are shooting AP-3 at my Breachers instead of my Knight, Dragoons, or Drill, that's a big win for me. Lol.
I am trying for ITC AdMech. I cannot take a Knight Lance. Only a SH Auxiliary with a lone Knight.
Suzuteo wrote: @Yoda79
I figured -1 to hit Breachers could be useful in holding objectives and providing some supporting fire. My list is majority melee, so I expect most action to occur midfield.
Is 5++ really necessary? If they are shooting AP-3 at my Breachers instead of my Knight, Dragoons, or Drill, that's a big win for me. Lol.
Thats how I feel about giving them a 5++ as well, sure i have a better invuln save, and a 4 up with acquisition, but if they are really using anything with 3-4 ap to deal with them, there is very few low strength, low damage weapons designed for that. So a breacher taking a lascannon or dark lance shot instead of my kastellan or onagers is a win for me.
Suzuteo wrote: @Yoda79
I figured -1 to hit Breachers could be useful in holding objectives and providing some supporting fire. My list is majority melee, so I expect most action to occur midfield.
Is 5++ really necessary? If they are shooting AP-3 at my Breachers instead of my Knight, Dragoons, or Drill, that's a big win for me. Lol.
I am trying for ITC AdMech. I cannot take a Knight Lance. Only a SH Auxiliary with a lone Knight.
I hope you don't mind me jumping in to reply here. The 5++ is important, as you say, for Acquisition at any Cost but it's also important if you're using the Breachers to screen your Kastellan Robots. Every Breacher that stays alive is a model making it more difficult for your opponent to tie up the Kastelan's in melee, which is their main weakness. It's hugely difficult to outshoot an Ad Mech gunline and our real weakness is Fly melee units, units that fight twice and Overwatch-free pile ins and consolidation moves. I would gladly pay the CP to make my two Breacher units a more effective screen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ideasweasel wrote: FAQ query, if you wanted to Lucius deep strike kastelan shooty bots, would they now suffer the -1 to hit for moving with heavy weapons?
I once had a game where I teleported some into a hard to reach area and they cleaned up
It was already a fairly rare move(why would you) but now there is even less of s reason. Have I read that right?
As far as I know teleporting/deepstriking units has always meant that they count as having moved.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/01 09:18:49
Against ap3 shooting 5++ is not worth while largely because you have cover 2-3 turns ao gain little benefit. Its really AP4 shooting where it would matter and we dont see a lot of that
However against a melee army ap3+ is quite common thunder hammers power swords and since cover isnt in effect it makes the 5++ quite usefull.
So really i would take the detatchment if you have tge cp then decide based on your opponent if you need the buff
For my list, since the Breachers are more a backfield unit than a defensive unit, then I guess the answer is no, 3 CP is not worth making two units 5++. I mean, consider my alternatives: Infiltration, Conqueror Doctrina, Zealous Congregation, Tech-Adepts, Wrath of Mars, Machine Spirit Resurgent, Knight of the Cog, Acquisition at all Costs, Steel Mind... we have a lot of good stratagems, actually.
Thats what i said. The wole point making a list is the decisions you need to make in game. I dont take 4cp/game to boost 5+ invu if i dont need. Especially in my destroyers backfield.
But i wrote the block text to make sure you all understand as we rise the competitive bar vs experienced enemies harder lists combos you ll need to build up on this.
If you dont use Cawl breachers shoot bs4+ if you dont have them melee invu they cant tank etc etc what decisions you ll take to spend cp is yours and you ll have to make it prior each game .
The whole post was ment to make you think if they are idd the proper unit. caus ethey become v v good if you got some options. No melee rerolls no shooting rerolls no 5+ sitting back filed ??? take destroyers with flamers and info skull or more dragoosn etc etc. just getting you to think about the otpions whn you know you wont use then properly.
So after the "nerf" to the Guard Dagger:
Anyone still using Destroyers? I really wanna include some Ryzaphrons, but they feel so squishy for their point cost...
lash92 wrote: So after the "nerf" to the Guard Dagger:
Anyone still using Destroyers? I really wanna include some Ryzaphrons, but they feel so squishy for their point cost...
I'll still be using Destroyers though mostly as Mars. They put out a lot of damage for their points so the squishiness is just a trade off for that, for their points they're pretty good. We've always got the option for Shroudpsalm + Acquisition at any Cost if they're being threatened. 2+ 4++ from range is pretty good. If you want to keep them safe turn one there's always Lucius or an Imperial Bunker.
Seriously? What the hell is shooting them that they feel squishy? They're toughness 5 with 3 wounds and 3+ save with shroudpsalm and the ability to revive. If your opponent is dedicating their entire army to kill them then its really on you for not punishing that with having other viable threats on the board. You actually seriously think theyre expensive? Compared to what exactly? Tell me what other units are kicking out that massive amount of firepower for the price tag. The castellan is dead, get with the times people. You should have seen what they costed before chapter approved, and I still took them then!
Praise the Omnissiah
Admech & Deathwatch
