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@IronVaught
I tried plugging your list into a builder. I came out with 2004 points. Can you sanity check me? Something seems to cost 5 more points where I'm looking.
Also, I noticed the principle differences between what you're doing and what I was trying earlier:
-You double down on Mars while I try to splash in Ryza and Graia. So it's Elimination Volley and reroll all hits versus Noospheric Mindlock, Plasma Specialists, and reroll 1s to hit.
-You take an Enginseer with Master of Bio-splicing, I take a Dominus without Bio-splicing.
-You pay the tax to get 3x4 Servitors and 4x Dragoons, I take an auxiliary for 6x Dragoons.
Your approach may be better against stuff like Eldar aircraft, but less so against something like Knights, as 6 Ryza Destroyers under my approach still outputs more damage than 9 Mars Destroyers under yours. Your list is also much more durable, with more redundancy.
My list for reference:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1100 Cohort Cybernetica (-1 CP)
HQ - 280 1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr, Warlord: Monitor Malevolus
Guys, is it only in my French codex as a mistake, or does yours say Enginseers can only repair <Vehicles> ? If that is so, wouldn't it be wiser to have Master of Biosplicing on a model that can heal the Kataphrons to full Wounds before using the WL trait to repop one ? Else you'd need to be in range of a Dominus/Cawl to fix the wounded Kataphron before being able to res one from Biosplicing.
@Suzuteo Yes to all points. Manipulus is 85points with transonic. Battlescribe is wrong.
@Aaranis No, yuur codex is correct but the destroyers will always be in range of cawl and the manipulus and i want the tougher mamipulus to house Prime Hermeticon. Field commander isnt Slay The Warlord food so i prefer the emginseer to have it.
IronVaught wrote: @Suzuteo Yes to all points. Manipulus is 85points with transonic. Battlescribe is wrong.
@Aaranis No, yuur codex is correct but the destroyers will always be in range of cawl and the manipulus and i want the tougher mamipulus to house Prime Hermeticon. Field commander isnt Slay The Warlord food so i prefer the emginseer to have it.
Uh... my physical data sheet says it's 90 base, 5 extra for the Magnafail Lance. So unless I got a misprint AND Battlescribe is wrong...?
Also, Master of Biosplicing lets your Enginseers heal Kataphrons, even if the normal repair ability doesn't.
The datasheet for the Manipulus has the points cost at 90 including wargear I believe. I've been running it as 90 points regardless of weapon choice. It is strange that we have a cost for weapons on a datasheet that states the points per unit already includes wargear though.
IronVaught wrote: @Suzuteo Yes to all points. Manipulus is 85points with transonic. Battlescribe is wrong.
@Aaranis No, yuur codex is correct but the destroyers will always be in range of cawl and the manipulus and i want the tougher mamipulus to house Prime Hermeticon. Field commander isnt Slay The Warlord food so i prefer the emginseer to have it.
Uh... my physical data sheet says it's 90 base, 5 extra for the Magnafail Lance. So unless I got a misprint AND Battlescribe is wrong...?
Also, Master of Biosplicing lets your Enginseers heal Kataphrons, even if the normal repair ability doesn't.
90 including wargear. Magnarail is 5 and included. 85 without. Its been ruled this way at every tournament ive seen in the UK and across the sea.
Yup @ splicing allowing healing but the normal enginseer repair only affects vehicles.
Ah I don't deny you can repair with Biosplicing, my point was that to bring back a model the unit had to have all models fully healed, so what we usually do is heal the unit (if it's wounded), then bring back a dead Kataphron. In my Agripinaa I have a Dominus with Autocaduceus so that I can always repair 2W before bringing one dead Kataphron back, all with the same Techpriest. But your method works too.
Ah. That's a good point. But yeah, let the bigger priests do the repairs.
But yeah, I totally forgot about Prime Hermeticon. Seems like it would make Breachers, Fulgurites, Infiltrators, and even Skitarii much more handy in a fight.
Also, after reading tneva82's experiences, I crunched the numbers. Seems our best unit against >12" Hemlocks and such are Lascannon Ballistariis in large units. This is important because looking at these lists, I have noticed that we rely a lot on 4+ shooting. Has anyone come up with something better? You can take them in a Mars gunline for 54" reroll all or in Stygies for the -1 to hit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 10:36:38
Suzuteo wrote: Ah. That's a good point. But yeah, let the bigger priests do the repairs.
But yeah, I totally forgot about Prime Hermeticon. Seems like it would make Breachers, Fulgurites, Infiltrators, and even Skitarii much more handy in a fight.
Also, after reading tneva82's experiences, I crunched the numbers. Seems our best unit against >12" Hemlocks and such are Lascannon Ballistariis in large units. This is important because looking at these lists, I have noticed that we rely a lot on 4+ shooting. Has anyone come up with something better? You can take them in a Mars gunline for 54" reroll all or in Stygies for the -1 to hit.
Don't forget that you can screen with balistari to bait charge from bigger threat(multi knight list, cos brothers and so on) and use Cognis overwatch stratagem. Since rule of 3 and use ov inv 3 balistari are better than neutrons I'm most circumstances. In any decent terrain board it isn hard to hide balistari behind LoS. Would i have them, I would run them.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
That’s like 1400 odd points. then I’m not sure what direction to go in afterwards
If I wanted to stay Mars adding another barebones Batallion leaves me with around 430 points and I’m not sure how best to compliment it. Do you folks think adding 4 las ballistari and a few snipers is a good shout?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 11:32:04
Wanted to pitch to you a list that has done really well for me recently and encompasses a lot of what I like to use, gaining power in a number of ways since the last FAQ.
4xServitors
4xServitors
4xServitors
Sorry to sully the Tactics forums with such a noob request, but I don't always keep up with the latest updates in the increasingly chimeric ruleset ...
- Several people talk about taking Servitors nowadays. Where do I find the update/errata/appendix to the apocrypha that makes them have a purpose? (in the codex they are utterly useless)
- Where do I find the rules for Manipulus? Everyone is talking about this also. Are the two matters related? Is it from a Vigilus book?
Wanted to pitch to you a list that has done really well for me recently and encompasses a lot of what I like to use, gaining power in a number of ways since the last FAQ.
4xServitors
4xServitors
4xServitors
Sorry to sully the Tactics forums with such a noob request, but I don't always keep up with the latest updates in the increasingly chimeric ruleset ...
- Several people talk about taking Servitors nowadays. Where do I find the update/errata/appendix to the apocrypha that makes them have a purpose? (in the codex they are utterly useless)
- Where do I find the rules for Manipulus? Everyone is talking about this also. Are the two matters related? Is it from a Vigilus book?
Thanks,
Mark.
As of latest chapter approved Servitors are 5ppm since Servoarms are free now. Plus we have an Detachment for our Kataphrons in Vigilus which makes those good. In this detachment there is a WLT which lets you kill on of your Servitors to resurrect a Kataphron, so you are trading a 5pt for a 50pt model.
Regarding the Manipulus: There is a Killteam set with him and 5 Infiltrators, there you also got the rules for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 12:07:09
Servitors got a lot cheaper since Chapter Approved (5pt each), and in the Vigilus Defiant campaign book there's a new AdMech Specialist Detachment called the Servitor Maniple. Through that detachment's warlord trait one can revive a killed Kataphron model with a much cheaper Servitor.
The Tech-Priest Manipulus and it's rule is in the Theta-7 Acquisitus kill team starter box, but it will most likely be available separately at a later date.
That’s like 1400 odd points. then I’m not sure what direction to go in afterwards
If I wanted to stay Mars adding another barebones Batallion leaves me with around 430 points and I’m not sure how best to compliment it. Do you folks think adding 4 las ballistari and a few snipers is a good shout?
It's mostly personal preference and flavour by what I would add to that is a Graia Battalion of Vanguard units and a Mars Battalion of Rangers with Arquebus. Kataphrons and Kastelans are very CP heavy after all. After that perhaps some Mars Infiltrators and even an Assassin for 2CP.
That’s like 1400 odd points. then I’m not sure what direction to go in afterwards
If I wanted to stay Mars adding another barebones Batallion leaves me with around 430 points and I’m not sure how best to compliment it. Do you folks think adding 4 las ballistari and a few snipers is a good shout?
Can't go wrong with 3 Onagers, at their point cost it's a must have. 3 Icarus for anti-fly or 3 Lasers for anti-all. Even 3 Beamers can be nice, your 3 Onagers will cost 300 pts + 6 for 3 Stubbers, they're hard to destroy, take space and give bonus morale. Personally I never play without two sniper squads of 5-7 guys each with an Omnispex, characters are still vital to kill, especially Psykers.
It's weird how all of a sudden you guys are all playing 20 Kataphrons... They're the most expensive Troops in the game, I'd never buy so many boxes of that but great if you can, I'm curious to try too, although thematically Skitarii are my preferred choice.
With all these recently posted lists(mine included), what are peoples plans vs smash capts? As a previous smash capt player, id absolutly love to face my own list, no overwatch, jump over screens and mulch a squad of breachers, fight again smash another or tag bots/destroyers etc etc. Its game over as these list types are based on the breachers being the counter punch in cc, but a smash capt will mulch a squad or 4-6, even if he doesnt and you kill him, he will finish it off when he dies. Im feeling more dedicated cc units are needed. Just food for thought.
a)i use Ranger snipers yes. I consider them core in my list. And since we dont have los shooting like mortars i believe snipers are the key to play vs armies we want to play against. Important.
b) Assasins. The 2 cp make them not so appealing. The whole situation was to get an assasin to suplement your needs vs various enemies. Atm i cant spend 2 cp and 85 points for an option. They are now Working as they should in lists taking a detachment of 4+ to begin with and again building a plan that will work with them inside. So the lists that have them ow have already calculated their worth and bring the ones they need .
Sure the option is there but ... you most likely will decide prior and get them in your list rather than use 1. And it was in my eyes better this way. Especially in competitive since i saw all imperium lists last tourney with one assasin . Yea i love the option but nah i hate the all list have one.
c) All good points Said here about Kataphrons.
It all comes down to the list and enviroment you play. Also i might add to the playstyle.
The game has now a v v good form where most likely many of the army units are playble. Almost all units have a value big or small got options and a General can use CP stratagems to enchance hiw asrmy in situations where he sees fit.
IT has become a true Strategy game as i see it and wanted some years now. And i dont say its perfect but the Volume we interact with the stratagems and cp usage trully makes it more strategic than pure list army.
So you wont debate and find the perfect solution as we did prior editions. There is no best or top list there are option.
The options end up for me and i really tried to explain from day one to build a plan. a Working 40k plan with your list.
Simple steps that you need to consider while you ll face various enemies and various plans. Now how you will get what you need is up to you and how you play the game and there it starts and ends.
I can post my list 200 times meet you in ETc and play the list differently. its the truth.
That said perfect list does not exist. You ll need to abjust your list according to your needs. your play style etc.
what we can talk is about experience and some key points you can calculate when building a list.
Better use Ryza if you got no Robots or smaller group of destroyers in a soup list.
Maybe invest in Agripinaa grav flamers for a force to push forward instead of a static gun line.
All thse decisions alter the list a lot. For a moving force you d prefer Vanguards to push along for horde clear.
OR IF you decide to Take Cawl and a gun line maybe some ranger snipers.
All suggestions iv read so far are good you need to play the lists and find the spot you are happy with.
2*4 breachers (5 better if possible)
1*5+ destroyers
4+Robots
Valid with Cal and Manipu.
I suggest infiltrators if you go Mars they help a lot.
from that point on its personal preferance etc. How you decide to play what you need wht you liek to do in table maybe consider your local MEta. OR yes the Tounrey you are heading on.
All valid and good options.
I personally am a toolbox player. I almost never build non-meta TAC. I look at the most dangerous lists and make sure I have specific answers for them.
Core to a gunline is a Cawlstar, which quite literally can kill anything:
Cawl
Manipulus
4-6 Kastelan Robots
Then you have to have a melee screen of some sort to handle Chaos, Orks, Nids, etc. I would take two of:
Breachers
Dragoons
Knight
Fulgurites
Then you need an answer to Eldar aircraft spam:
Lascannon Ballistarii
Icarus Crawler
Mars Destroyer
So basically, Plasma Destroyers and Lascannon Ballistarii are our most efficient answer to a lot of things. The former are just so amazingly cheap for the shots they provide. Only downside is that they are BS4, which combined with the Robots is a dangerous backbone for the army given how much minus to hit there is out there. I actually realized last night when comparing my list to others that the Ryza Destroyers are pretty bad without the old Dagger trick because I can no longer expect to be within 12" of my target when I drop. That has been crucial in some of my games. Meanwhile, Lascannon Ballistarii latter are basically Neutron Crawlers with squadron and +2 to hit stratagem. With Mars buffs, they have 54" inch range and reroll all hits, so a unit of 6 is basically shooting down 1-2 aircraft per turn. Very tempting to pull mine out of mothballs again.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/09 15:51:32
Another question, for my first (and only for now) Dunecrawler, would it be better to put the Neutron laser or Icarus Arrray on it? I know its easy to magnetize but i dont have the stuff and i dont think i have the patience to wait for any order to arrive hehe.
ThePie wrote: Another question, for my first (and only for now) Dunecrawler, would it be better to put the Neutron laser or Icarus Arrray on it? I know its easy to magnetize but i dont have the stuff and i dont think i have the patience to wait for any order to arrive hehe.
You don't need to have magnetised them to change loadout you just need to not glue the neutron laser turret in place and not glue the half-sphere with cog and skull logo onto the side of the turret mount. You can just slot any of the options in after that, the model seems designed with it in mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 19:30:53
ThePie wrote: Another question, for my first (and only for now) Dunecrawler, would it be better to put the Neutron laser or Icarus Arrray on it? I know its easy to magnetize but i dont have the stuff and i dont think i have the patience to wait for any order to arrive hehe.
You don't need to have magnetised them to change loadout you just need to not glue the neutron laser turret in place and not glue the half-sphere with cog and skull logo onto the side of the turret mount. You can just slot any of the options in after that, the model seems designed with it in mind.
oh i didnt know that, that would be really handy if it works.
ThePie wrote: Another question, for my first (and only for now) Dunecrawler, would it be better to put the Neutron laser or Icarus Arrray on it? I know its easy to magnetize but i dont have the stuff and i dont think i have the patience to wait for any order to arrive hehe.
Depends on the rest of your list.
if you have things like Ryzaphrons in there then go Icarus because they can deal with tanks while the icarus deals with light vehicles/flyers etc.
If you have things like multiple autocannon balistarii that can easily gain a +2 to hit which can deal with flyers etc. then go Neutron to take out tanks.
personally I never leave home without at least 1 Neutron, and only go to Icarus for subsequent Onagers, because it is useful to have a tank killing gun that does not rely on CP to function. Not everything has an invulnerable save... basically they are looking at knights - Icarus is great at pealing off the odd wounds here or there, as it is weight of fire that kills them rather than a (now 50%) chance to get through the Ion SHield with Rotate/WL trait etc.
Suzuteo wrote: I personally am a toolbox player. I almost never build non-meta TAC. I look at the most dangerous lists and make sure I have specific answers for them.
Core to a gunline is a Cawlstar, which quite literally can kill anything:
Cawl
Manipulus
4-6 Kastelan Robots
Then you have to have a melee screen of some sort to handle Chaos, Orks, Nids, etc. I would take two of:
Breachers
Dragoons
Knight
Fulgurites
Then you need an answer to Eldar aircraft spam:
Lascannon Ballistarii
Icarus Crawler
Mars Destroyer
So basically, Plasma Destroyers and Lascannon Ballistarii are our most efficient answer to a lot of things. The former are just so amazingly cheap for the shots they provide. Only downside is that they are BS4, which combined with the Robots is a dangerous backbone for the army given how much minus to hit there is out there. I actually realized last night when comparing my list to others that the Ryza Destroyers are pretty bad without the old Dagger trick because I can no longer expect to be within 12" of my target when I drop. That has been crucial in some of my games. Meanwhile, Lascannon Ballistarii latter are basically Neutron Crawlers with squadron and +2 to hit stratagem. With Mars buffs, they have 54" inch range and reroll all hits, so a unit of 6 is basically shooting down 1-2 aircraft per turn. Very tempting to pull mine out of mothballs again.
Suzuteo, I have some in-depth questions, as you seem to be really on top of the game and have similar lists, that combine a bit of every role.
Right now I am good at building lists, so the next step is the game itself, how do you use those components, what to look out for?
This question goes to everyone really. Anything regarding Cawlstar, screen, vanguards, melee.
1. Deployment: Is really hard for me, I generally just look out for LoS and range.
2. Vanguards: Usually put them as far away as possibile to be able to reach objectives and deny first turn movement shenanigans.
3. Screen: How far do you put them away from your robots? Mostly using rangers and some servitors. Any tips against flyers, skimmers? How to place your characters in relation to robots, or just leave them alone with the overwatch relict?
4. melee: I dont use electrovariants, kataphrons nor have many chickens. Ruststalkers are bad, but tips would be appreciated too.
5. Dragoons and Ironstriders seem pretty good with stratagems in bigger units, but are they worth taking solo as I only have one magnetized.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/09 19:54:18
I don't think so. We may get the rules, but teased transport was GW one not FW. So id say 90% no, thats not the one we've ben promised.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Praise the Omnissiah
