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Because I would need to take an extra Mars Dominus and a unit of Mars Plasmaphron for this. And that is less efficient than just taking the Lascannon Ballistarii. It's 90 dead points and 2 CP per turn to enable +1 to hit.

Lascannon Ballistarii aren't expensive. They are actually the second most point efficient Lascannon unit behind HWTs and just ahead of Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought. But HWTs get instantly mulched by any indirect fire.

Again, because the Lascannon Ballistarii are more efficient against Eldar aircraft and Wave Serpents. Crawlers are still great, but they are not optimal for the role I have in mind. I understand that this is overinvestment to counter minus to hit, but I am intentionally overinvesting here because I think they are the worst matchup we can have with a primarily BS4+ army.

I will test it, but you know me. I have got an entire spreadsheet calculating Lasc Ballistarii vs. Plasmaphron vs. Icarus Crawler in Mars, Stygies, Ryza (for Plasmaphron only), and Agripinaa setups. Mars Lasc Ballistarii is the best choice for anti-aircraft. They have got the point efficiency, the range, and no overheating drawbacks. Ryzaphron is the most efficient anti-tank shooting IN THE ENTIRE GAME right now. (I mean, seriously, they melt through Leman Russes like a blowtorch through butter. I actually cannot find another unit with better point efficiency considering you only need to invest 90 points in a single HQ to give +1 to hit, +1 to wound, +1D on top of an already efficient body.) But not the best against Eldari aircraft. Mars and Agripinaa Plasmaphron are pretty good, but not much more than Lasc Ballistarii. Agripinaa Lasc Ballistarii is more efficient than Mars against vehicles, but less against aircraft.

 deffrekka wrote:
Its definitely a heavy stubber, phosphor blasters have 3 rings before the muzzle and heavy phosphor blasters have 2 rings. The flared muzzle is also seen on cognis heavy stubbers where as phosphor have a slit in their muzzle.

Why would they put put two Heavy Stubbers on that dont match the other Heavy Stubbers in look. That would be kind of a weird thing to do.

Makes me think... A squad of 10 Ryza Vanguards with Data-tether and 3 Plasma Calivers, disembarking from the Skorpius, shooting with Ryza stratagem + Protector stratagem, with a small reroll 1s to Hit Canticle can potentially do 18D on overcharge with max luck. Would make a small Ryza Battalion more attractive, with two squads of those and a Ryzaphron blob maybe ?

 Aaranis wrote:
Makes me think... A squad of 10 Ryza Vanguards with Data-tether and 3 Plasma Calivers, disembarking from the Skorpius, shooting with Ryza stratagem + Protector stratagem, with a small reroll 1s to Hit Canticle can potentially do 18D on overcharge with max luck. Would make a small Ryza Battalion more attractive, with two squads of those and a Ryzaphron blob maybe ?

Depends a lot on if the Skorpius accepts all Skitarii without regard to FW or not. If this is the case, a soup that has Ryza Skitarii with Calivers combined with Stygies Skorpiuses would be ideal. Instantly infiltrate 9" up the board, dump infantry, use the transports as a wall against charging.

So I have a big Apocalypse sized game coming up shortly - multple people per team 2k each (not sure what the others are bringing yet - could be anything).

I was thinking somthing like a double battalion of AdMech 1x Ryza 1x Stygies

Ryza:
Dominus,Manipulus, 6x Ryzaphrons & Breachers Servitor Maniple.

Stygies:
Enginseers, Vanguard, 3x Dragoons, 2x Onagers.

as well as a SHD of Krast Knights - mainly so I can take the Headsman Mark relic. should I go for the Valiant or a Warden (the remaining knights are armigers?

does anyone have any other advice regarding the AdMech side of things (I have quite a lot of AdMech stuff, so can swap out most of anything)?

@Forgemaster
Given it's Apocalypse, I would say you need more Ryzaphrons. As in, 3x9 of them. Haha.

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Forgemaster
Given it's Apocalypse, I would say you need more Ryzaphrons. As in, 3x9 of them. Haha.

I could drop an onager and a dragoon for another 3?

but i wanted a TAC list because as mentioned in the post it is teams and each team member has 2k to go with. but if everyone focusses on anti-tank then if opponants have nids/orks etc. they will swarm accross the board...

what is your thoughts regarding the knight?

 The Forgemaster wrote:
but i wanted a TAC list because as mentioned in the post it is teams and each team member has 2k to go with. but if everyone focusses on anti-tank then if opponants have nids/orks etc. they will swarm accross the board...

Hordes are awful in Apocalypse or Epic games. This is because they are not space efficient at all. Not to mention playtime efficient. In any case, I am sure your teammates can bring better anti-horde. But I guess you could bring Dakkabots? As for Krast Knights, the Crusader is the best bet for shooting and Styrix for a well-rounded budget option. I would do Raven for Castellans. Not so sure about Valiant. Probably Hawkshroud; it has to be Imperial.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 The Forgemaster wrote:
but i wanted a TAC list because as mentioned in the post it is teams and each team member has 2k to go with. but if everyone focusses on anti-tank then if opponants have nids/orks etc. they will swarm accross the board...

Hordes are awful in Apocalypse or Epic games. This is because they are not space efficient at all. Not to mention playtime efficient. In any case, I am sure your teammates can bring better anti-horde. But I guess you could bring Dakkabots? As for Krast Knights, the Crusader is the best bet for shooting and Styrix for a well-rounded budget option. I would do Raven for Castellans. Not so sure about Valiant. Probably Hawkshroud; it has to be Imperial.

Thanks for the advice, I will have to think on it.

predzink wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
Its definitely a heavy stubber, phosphor blasters have 3 rings before the muzzle and heavy phosphor blasters have 2 rings. The flared muzzle is also seen on cognis heavy stubbers where as phosphor have a slit in their muzzle.

Why would they put put two Heavy Stubbers on that dont match the other Heavy Stubbers in look. That would be kind of a weird thing to do.

The heavy stubbers are identical to the ones on the Onager, from the slits down the side of the barrel for cooling, the singular ring before the muzzle and the actually gun housing. As for the boat, it doesn't really have 2 different heavy stubbers, two are pintle mounted 2 are hard point mounted.

If your wishing they are anything but stubbers your gonna be quite disappointed haha! They are literally carbon copies of the ones on the Onager. The only thing that is different is the gun casing on the stubbers attached to the servitor but that's because it's a hard point mount.

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, flying tanks are at a distinct disadvantage right now due to Crimson Hunters showing no sign of going away. Especially if these are T7, which I expect they will be.

If we have transports, we probably won't have as much use for Vanguard, whose primary value comes from being able to advance and shoot. They might be used for their -1T aura though.

Wat? The ONLY use is advancing and shooting?The firepower you can get out of a Vanguard squad loaded up with Plasma is very good for their points. The only reason you dont see them is because they get punked off the board because they have no transport.

I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

 Goldenemperor wrote:


I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

Nah, that is just people on Dakka...

 Goldenemperor wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, flying tanks are at a distinct disadvantage right now due to Crimson Hunters showing no sign of going away. Especially if these are T7, which I expect they will be.

If we have transports, we probably won't have as much use for Vanguard, whose primary value comes from being able to advance and shoot. They might be used for their -1T aura though.

Wat? The ONLY use is advancing and shooting?The firepower you can get out of a Vanguard squad loaded up with Plasma is very good for their points. The only reason you dont see them is because they get punked off the board because they have no transport.

I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

Right. I'm saying Vanguard can slog it faster than Rangers. That is their primary advantage. Once we get transports, Rangers with Calivers might be better.

I'm actually one of the more optimistic ones. Lol.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 Goldenemperor wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, flying tanks are at a distinct disadvantage right now due to Crimson Hunters showing no sign of going away. Especially if these are T7, which I expect they will be.

If we have transports, we probably won't have as much use for Vanguard, whose primary value comes from being able to advance and shoot. They might be used for their -1T aura though.

Wat? The ONLY use is advancing and shooting?The firepower you can get out of a Vanguard squad loaded up with Plasma is very good for their points. The only reason you dont see them is because they get punked off the board because they have no transport.

I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

Right. I'm saying Vanguard can slog it faster than Rangers. That is their primary advantage. Once we get transports, Rangers with Calivers might be better.

I'm actually one of the more optimistic ones. Lol.

I think the main advantage is that Vanguard don't lose their mobility advantage just because they are sitting in a transport. Especially if you want to disembark as soon as possible and get them e.g. on an objective. With Stygies Vanguard you can scout move the transport 9", then disembark 2", move another 6" and then still run and shoot (hitting on 2+ if you got a radioman and use the Protector Doctrina on the unit) in order to get them into range/on an objective/into terrain or behind line of sight blockers. The main question is whether it is worth the extra point per model over rangers. Considering that you'll rarely use a transport to ship a unit to a location right outside your deployment zone but rather those farther away, getting another 1-6" of movement seems to be worth the points, in addition to having another 3" of effective range (18" assault 2 vs 15" rapid fire). You can still use Rangers for objective sitting, bubble wrapping and footslogging duties, but getting that stingy when it comes to the filling of a transport worth a not inconsiderable amount of points seems questionable IMO. When you are paying a premium for mobility you shouldn't settle for half-measures just to save a measly 10 points unless you have to.

This is assuming that units inside the Dunerider can't fire out of the vehicle (because it doesn't really look like passengers have an easy time shooting out of it and the two firing ports are already taken by the stubbers), because then the case could be made for saving points on filling of the transport that's only there to stay inside and shoot out of it. But even then the extra 3" of range might make a considerable difference in the amount of effective small-arms fire you can pour into an enemy.

 The Forgemaster wrote:

 Goldenemperor wrote:


I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

Nah, that is just people on Dakka...

Haha, well on Dakka it's easy: If it isn't a unit that provides you the easiest way to winning the next grand tournament it gets tossed out of the window automatically .

 Goldenemperor wrote:


I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

You haven't seen Tau groups

Well, within three weeks we should have either rules or preorder going if you ask me, so then we will know. That makes my think. Shouldn't we with old tradition start new, clean thread once it comes out? You know, it kinda is big change. I would happily write somme more entries for our guide at the beginning.

 Spera wrote:

 Goldenemperor wrote:


I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

You haven't seen Tau groups

Well, within three weeks we should have either rules or preorder going if you ask me, so then we will know. That makes my think. Shouldn't we with old tradition start new, clean thread once it comes out? You know, it kinda is big change. I would happily write somme more entries for our guide at the beginning.

I personally dont see the point of spreading the conversation to multiple threads, expecially since this one has generated so much discussion already. Having everything consolidated is pretty nice. We could edit the title to say which page the "post transport release" discussion starts.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Spera wrote:

 Goldenemperor wrote:


I swear, AdMech players are the whiniest bunch, never happy and doom saying before the model has even hit the floor. Christ alive it's insane.

You haven't seen Tau groups

Well, within three weeks we should have either rules or preorder going if you ask me, so then we will know. That makes my think. Shouldn't we with old tradition start new, clean thread once it comes out? You know, it kinda is big change. I would happily write somme more entries for our guide at the beginning.

I personally dont see the point of spreading the conversation to multiple threads, expecially since this one has generated so much discussion already. Having everything consolidated is pretty nice. We could edit the title to say which page the "post transport release" discussion starts.

Well previously it worked by consolidating accumulated knowledge into guide that is at the beginning, and i see that it wasn't update for some time. Im was honestly were surprised when i looked back here after some time and se it wasn't done after chapter approved. Like honestly, if we wouldn't do that before thread would be over 1000 pages long already. Nobody would read that anyway, especially with how often we drift away from tactics to off top, and discus list that are often in 90% looks the same. I think linking to the archive threads could be good idea though.

Do you guyz run Cognis flamers or Phosphor blasters on your destroyers? I can see flamers being good against CC hordes as an extra last ditch attack, prob even better if you use the Manipulus. But is it worth the extra points?

 ThePie wrote:
Do you guyz run Cognis flamers or Phosphor blasters on your destroyers? I can see flamers being good against CC hordes as an extra last ditch attack, prob even better if you use the Manipulus. But is it worth the extra points?

Do you use other units to peel of for your fire base, and intercept potential charges? Phosphor blasters.
You don't have dedicated roadblocks, more just cannon fodder and there are more valuable units than destroyers? Flamers.

The concept art of the new transport mentions 'should take 10x Skitarii or 5x heavy Skitarii', so I'm guessing that'll be the capacity. The question is if Kataprons count as heavy skitarii or if that's a new unit entirely. The other concept art mentions 'Hepheston' with some big shoulder mounted weapons, so that could be it.

 Redemption wrote:
The concept art of the new transport mentions 'should take 10x Skitarii or 5x heavy Skitarii', so I'm guessing that'll be the capacity. The question is if Kataprons count as heavy skitarii or if that's a new unit entirely. The other concept art mentions 'Hepheston' with some big shoulder mounted weapons, so that could be it.

Spoiler:

these hepheston weapons look a lot like the kataphron's.

maybe we're not just getting a transport but also some new kataphron variant?

Had a 2v2 game with 3009 points.
Used 4 dakkabots with cawl and manipulus with overwatch relic and tbh it felt really unfair. No one was able to charge them...

What about changing title to: Tactica Mechanicus - CA2018 pg150, Apr FAQ pg200, Transport pg220...

you may wish to update those page no. as they are currently random?

 The Forgemaster wrote:
What about changing title to: Tactica Mechanicus - CA2018 pg150, Apr FAQ pg200, Transport pg220...

you may wish to update those page no. as they are currently random?

That was my idea too, or at the very least update the first post to have "timestamps"

Thing is, Verviedi, the author of the Tactica has been missing from the thread for a long time so it isn't easy to edit. I agree we'll need another thread post-Skorpius, because I wager we'll get new players just because of this new model, and it's easier to read 10 pages than 250, considering there's been a LOT of time since first post, the meta and our army lists have changed completely. We used to trashtalk Kataphrons and suddenly everyone have 10 boxes of them, for example, so this could get confusing. Wait until either we get a Codex 2.0 or until we get the Skorpius + maybe this new Heavy Skitarii unit before starting a new thread though.

Are we definitely getting a new heavy skitarii unit?

Just a supposition from the sketches present at Warhammer Fest, depicting weapon concepts for "Hephaston". And the notes about the transport capacity on the same sketch talk about "10 Skitarii capacity or 5 Heavy Skitarii". For all we know it may be a project that hasn't passed the art phase and may not see the light of day this soon, but I suspect GW is teasing us by showing the sketch with these notes, they KNOW we'll extrapolate like crazy about it. I hope it'll be Skitarii and not other Kataphrons though. If they do a mini AdMech release they might even throw a random Skitarii Princeps HQ, who knows ?

What I wish to know is the preorder date for the Skorpius. And the RUUULES.

 Aaranis wrote:
Just a supposition from the sketches present at Warhammer Fest, depicting weapon concepts for "Hephaston". And the notes about the transport capacity on the same sketch talk about "10 Skitarii capacity or 5 Heavy Skitarii". For all we know it may be a project that hasn't passed the art phase and may not see the light of day this soon, but I suspect GW is teasing us by showing the sketch with these notes, they KNOW we'll extrapolate like crazy about it. I hope it'll be Skitarii and not other Kataphrons though. If they do a mini AdMech release they might even throw a random Skitarii Princeps HQ, who knows ?

What I wish to know is the preorder date for the Skorpius. And the RUUULES.

Something like myrmidon from 30k re-imagined into a plastic heavy skitarii is what i imagine they would be.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Are we definitely getting a new heavy skitarii unit?

No. Concept art is concept art. Might also be for stuff that was discarded (see for example the several Manipulus weapons that didn't make it in the end) or is only coming out in a few years, if at all. Chances are that they might lead to something eventually, otherwise GW propably wouldn't have made them public.
Heavy Skitarii probably refers to Sicarians (as well).

Agree with the others that we eventually need a new thread, especially if the OP is MIA and it's hard to edit e.g. the unit summaries. Admech changed quite a bit with the last Chapter Approved (a hundred pages discussing Stygies turn one charges or how worthless 47 point Engineseers and 127 point Dominii are won't help anyone reading the thread today... and that's before considering the dozen pages discussing flavor of the month soup lists and unrelated Imperial units that are no longe en vogue) and the new transport, as well as a potential second codex, will necessitate a change with an OP who is one of the regulars in this thread.

Ah I wasn’t sure of the history of the drawings, I thought someone had scooped extra info from the event day.

I know my friend tried to get info regarding the rules for our boat but the rules team was very tight lipped so sadly we just have to wait