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We have individually great models with some contradicting rules and very little interactivity between units. As an army, the rules are pretty awful. We just happen to be saved by having good strategms to prop up the poor rulew writing. See how well you do without any CP and tell me again how good our rules are lol
Vineheart01 wrote: Tell me an army that plays decently without stratagems against an army that is using them.....
Guard can do pretty well. We have good strategems but they're nothing quite as Earth shattering as what other codexes get. With orders, relics, and warlord traits you can cover a lot of bases. Granted I'd do better if I get to use strategems but it's not like you kneecapped my army.
And I do agree that what really helps admech is the strategems and some additional tweaks like Vigulus and point drops. Admech, more than any other codex I play, makes me feel like I'm doing well in spite of my codex, not because of it.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Octovol wrote: We have individually great models with some contradicting rules and very little interactivity between units. As an army, the rules are pretty awful. We just happen to be saved by having good strategms to prop up the poor rulew writing. See how well you do without any CP and tell me again how good our rules are lol
I agree that we have weird choices of rules (all our melee relics come to mind) but the army as a whole is still strong. Also 8th edition has stratagems as part of the core game, you cannot disreguard them when evaluating an army.
We have answers to everything except psykers. Our anti-horde can also deal with tanks decently and most of our big units are quite resilient. our basic troops are cheap and are great at their job.
Plus we have the OP buff of having the "Imperium" keyword
Octovol wrote: We have individually great models with some contradicting rules and very little interactivity between units. As an army, the rules are pretty awful. We just happen to be saved by having good strategms to prop up the poor rulew writing. See how well you do without any CP and tell me again how good our rules are lol
I agree that we have weird choices of rules (all our melee relics come to mind) but the army as a whole is still strong. Also 8th edition has stratagems as part of the core game, you cannot disreguard them when evaluating an army.
We have answers to everything except psykers. Our anti-horde can also deal with tanks decently and most of our big units are quite resilient. our basic troops are cheap and are great at their job.
Plus we have the OP buff of having the "Imperium" keyword
Agreed.
Though we do have the Graia deny. Sure, isn't "much" and forge world dependent, but on the upside you don't need to pay points for a specialized deny-unit like Inquisitors or psykers, if you play Graia you get it on the house. Not to mention that a flat 4+ to deny any power is great and gets even better because you are able to re-roll it for a CP.
If I look at my Tau... things could be much, MUCH worse for Admech. They can't use allies at all and just have to suck it up when psykers start throwing their strong buffs and debuffs around. NicassarWHEN.jpg
Absolutely agree on everything else in your post.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 18:52:01
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
I actually do not mind people thinking AdMech is bad. Furthermore, our rules do suck. Most of Canticles and relics are useless and our dogmas are pretty bad too. Stratagems seem to be our only bright spot, that and point values now.
@Yoda79
I did the math, and I don't think Destroyers are viable against Eldar aircraft spam. The risk of overheating is way too high. Unless I want to buy a Mars Dominus and get Servitor Maniple. (Too many costs for too little benefit. I think Icarus Crawlers or Ironstriders are a better choice.)
--
Also, I asked FLG, and they asked GW about Tech-Priest Manipulus's base value. It is 90. So the default loadout costs 95.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/17 19:58:03
Ideasweasel wrote: @Suzuteo oh snap so the community team were speaking out of turn when they said Manipulus will be pointed between Enginseer and Dominus.
Damn. Search as I have I could never find the quote to send it in an email to GW asking them to clarify why they never made good on that.
Shame :(
*edit*
Double oh snap!
It was actually BOLS spreading misinformation about the Manipulus. I knew I had read it somewhere but to be fair to GW they never actually said he’d be a sensible points price. Maybe by the time the next adjustment rolls around they will see he’s pointed incorrectly
I case of BOLS article id group us with harlequins and sisters, because i think the we suffered form same problem -Limited roster. Now that our units are decent we are getting better and better results. Stratagems are really good, aldough some might argue that later released armies have better ones/distributed more favorably(teleport stratagems not hidden behind specific "chapter" and so on).
I don't mind, let them call us week if that means that we get more support form GW.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
Ideasweasel wrote: @Suzuteo oh snap so the community team were speaking out of turn when they said Manipulus will be pointed between Enginseer and Dominus.
Damn. Search as I have I could never find the quote to send it in an email to GW asking them to clarify why they never made good on that.
Shame :(
*edit*
Double oh snap!
It was actually BOLS spreading misinformation about the Manipulus. I knew I had read it somewhere but to be fair to GW they never actually said he’d be a sensible points price. Maybe by the time the next adjustment rolls around they will see he’s pointed incorrectly
You never thought to just enter 'manipulus' on the WC site?
A Manipulus serves as a happy middle ground in terms of power and points cost between his fellow Tech-Priests, the Enginseer and the Dominus, and also has unique access to a handy Tactic that will help your kill team to surge forwards at the onset of battle.
Stuff released around the time of CA generally doesnt reflect any changes in it.
He was probably priced between the two and then Dom dropped to 90pts, but since Mani wasnt out long enough CA19 didnt drop him either.
He definitely doesnt feel like he should be 95pts...
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
So i finally managed to play with admech for the first time and it was loads of fun. But i never managed to beat one of my friends ork army. He simply overwhelmed any screen i have and murdered everything by t2-t3 by sheer number and speed.
I was thinking of dropping the 3 plasma destroyers from the list, never felt they were worth the points for 1000 pts battles, would it be worth trading the destroyers for some extra screens and either another kastellan or dunecrawler (or perhaps just 2 kastellans instead of extra screens)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 21:43:41
I don't say take 12 destroyers and build a list around them. I just said an option to improve your list . Take 3 grav destroyers or don't use overcharged plasma when you face planes .
What ever the case when you decide to take Cawl for a reason then you decide to take some dedtruers to help your 440+ point robots. Same list more options when you need. Same list but better even. I you never use them.
They can be extra threat can move shoot be a buffer o extra meat. It's not about comparing icarus v plasma .
In. Your list as it is with Cawl can provide ooptions .
As said that's how I see it in my games not trying to convince you.
Same goes for solo destreyers no robots . Or bs 4+ without Cawl.
Seperate uunits mediocre all together above average results.
For me
My main point with our strategms is we have to rely on them too much to pick up the slack. Everytime i run out of CP it feels like a slog from then on. Even then or strategms are tied to FW or have odd restrictions.
It would just be nice to have a little more cohesion which is something we definitely lack. If more units worked together better we wouldn't need to rely on CP as much. For example if all servitors had the Mindlock rule regular servitors have then it would give extra worth to our HQs who are frankly dull. Cawl aside no body is worried if a dominus charge then... Or shoots them for that matter. They just do nothing, might as well be a standard bearer.
ThePie wrote: So i finally managed to play with admech for the first time and it was loads of fun. But i never managed to beat one of my friends ork army. He simply overwhelmed any screen i have and murdered everything by t2-t3 by sheer number and speed.
I was thinking of dropping the 3 plasma destroyers from the list, never felt they were worth the points for 1000 pts battles, would it be worth trading the destroyers for some extra screens and either another kastellan or dunecrawler (or perhaps just 2 kastellans instead of extra screens)
Can you post your list so we can see what's going on? Not sure what to recommend without knowing what you have
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
ThePie wrote: So i finally managed to play with admech for the first time and it was loads of fun. But i never managed to beat one of my friends ork army. He simply overwhelmed any screen i have and murdered everything by t2-t3 by sheer number and speed.
I was thinking of dropping the 3 plasma destroyers from the list, never felt they were worth the points for 1000 pts battles, would it be worth trading the destroyers for some extra screens and either another kastellan or dunecrawler (or perhaps just 2 kastellans instead of extra screens)
My strategy against Green Tide is to kill as many Lootaz and Boyz as possible with Kastelan Robots and my Knight Crusader. At 1000 points, Boyz are probably scarier. I would definitely consider 2-4 Kastelan Robots. And yeah, Skitarii are a pretty bad screen, especially in melee. Breachers definitely are better in this regard.
Plasma Destroyers are very strong, especially at lower points where first turns aren't as killy.
ThePie wrote: So i finally managed to play with admech for the first time and it was loads of fun. But i never managed to beat one of my friends ork army. He simply overwhelmed any screen i have and murdered everything by t2-t3 by sheer number and speed.
I was thinking of dropping the 3 plasma destroyers from the list, never felt they were worth the points for 1000 pts battles, would it be worth trading the destroyers for some extra screens and either another kastellan or dunecrawler (or perhaps just 2 kastellans instead of extra screens)
Can you post your list so we can see what's going on? Not sure what to recommend without knowing what you have
Warboss on bike
Wartrike
Wierdboy
2 blobs of boys with a mix of shootas and choppas (think it was something between 20-25 in each blob)
10 gretchlings (which he ran infront of boys to soak wounds with some stratagem)
3x5 storm boys
2x5 commandos
Lots of kill saw in that list aswell.
Even with 2 lines of screens, first line just got shot down and then he charged and killed the second one in a single turn, even killing one blob didnt help since the other blob, commandos and stormboys tied down everything else turn after. And dang i was not prepeared for how fast and brutal the wartrike and warboss was, they charged across the entire field in one turn and had like fixed 4 damage with absurd str. Game was fun but i really need to improve to challenge him next time.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/05/17 23:15:19
Ideasweasel wrote: @Suzuteo oh snap so the community team were speaking out of turn when they said Manipulus will be pointed between Enginseer and Dominus.
Damn. Search as I have I could never find the quote to send it in an email to GW asking them to clarify why they never made good on that.
Shame :(
*edit*
Double oh snap!
It was actually BOLS spreading misinformation about the Manipulus. I knew I had read it somewhere but to be fair to GW they never actually said he’d be a sensible points price. Maybe by the time the next adjustment rolls around they will see he’s pointed incorrectly
well the dominus is PL 7 and the Manipulus only PL 5
No one betting money on that not being exactly what the community team were referring to with their statement, ever.
Would be rather surprised if they ever overhaul point costs for "auxiliary units" that were made for different games and only got 40k rules to push sales (better than if there were no rules or only PL points, but it's obvious why e.g. the Rouge Trader or Blackstone Fortress models got 40k rules) considering that like the rest of e.g. the Blackstone Fortress or Rouge Trader models the Manipulus might never get more than that one Kill Team expansion release he was included in, and the official rules are just a leaflet included in that box.
For that reason spamming the community support and rules team channels/mail accounts and asking them to not only release the Manipulus as an individual model release, but include the Manipulus in any revised Admech Codex, Chapter Approved or just as a PDF on their website, INCLUDING the data sheet and rules, is so important, otherwise there is little reason for them to overhaul point costs for a unit where neither the model NOR the printed rules on the included leaflet are available anymore once they stop producing that Kill Team box. .
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2019/05/18 01:58:38
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
ThePie wrote: So i finally managed to play with admech for the first time and it was loads of fun. But i never managed to beat one of my friends ork army. He simply overwhelmed any screen i have and murdered everything by t2-t3 by sheer number and speed.
I was thinking of dropping the 3 plasma destroyers from the list, never felt they were worth the points for 1000 pts battles, would it be worth trading the destroyers for some extra screens and either another kastellan or dunecrawler (or perhaps just 2 kastellans instead of extra screens)
Can you post your list so we can see what's going on? Not sure what to recommend without knowing what you have
Warboss on bike Wartrike Wierdboy 2 blobs of boys with a mix of shootas and choppas (think it was something between 20-25 in each blob) 10 gretchlings (which he ran infront of boys to soak wounds with some stratagem) 3x5 storm boys 2x5 commandos Lots of kill saw in that list aswell.
Even with 2 lines of screens, first line just got shot down and then he charged and killed the second one in a single turn, even killing one blob didnt help since the other blob, commandos and stormboys tied down everything else turn after. And dang i was not prepeared for how fast and brutal the wartrike and warboss was, they charged across the entire field in one turn and had like fixed 4 damage with absurd str. Game was fun but i really need to improve to challenge him next time.
I don't know if thats true, but reading that i se more of a play mistake than list mistake. Performing t1 charge isn't easy, so I assume that you moved your screen to much forward. Its big no no. You basically given him opportunity to slingshoot aka do 5+6"+3d6" movement by coming into his charge range. Iff you can, deeploy most of the screen out of line of sight, dense enough to deny dajump and comandos and unfold it for turn 2. And obviously, destroy warbike boss with arquebuses. Not being charge and advance in the same turn will be huge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/18 09:46:26
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
I will be. Don't have great hopes though, since I will probably only get one or two practice games in as I finish painting this week. Big contenders seem to be Purge list, Eldar aircraft spam, Abaddon Soup, Knights, GSC, and Tau Triptides Tripsides.
Fortunately, everything is new, and most people will have never played a Martian gunline with the new Overwatch rules. (Raiment + Cawl rerolls are insane.)
Here is the list:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1310 Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)
HQ - 280 1x Belisarius Cawl
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr
House Krast Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 498
Lord of War - 498 1x Knight Crusader - Avenger Gatling Cannon, Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, Heavy Flamer, 2x Heavy Stubber, Twin Icarus Autocannon, Warlord: Ion Bulwark (-1 CP), Relic: Headsman's Mark (-1 CP)
Total: 1996 points 13 CP (-3)
Nervous about only running 6 units of troops, regardless of how reliable the Breachers are. I am sorely tempted to cut a Ballistarii to do 6x5 Graia Rangers, but I think I will need every last bit of firepower that I can get.
I think I will just have to control the board and outshoot my opponent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/18 11:14:48
Yeah. My friend convinced me it's too easy for the Eldar aircraft list to play around any melee Knight. The Crusader with the Icarus Autocannon can threaten aircraft and pulverize bikes.
I think I am prepared for Knights. Literally everything other than my Skitarii can hurt a Knight.
Triptides Tripsides is going to be about abusing my range advantage and turtling my Breachers on objectives.
GSC, Nids, and Orks is about castling with my Knight in front, Breachers behind it, then Robots, my HQs, then Ironstriders. Just gotta kill em all.
Chaos is a big question mark. There are so many variants now.
Anyhow, it's submitted, but I think I can freely change it up until Thursday?
Suzuteo wrote: Yeah. My friend convinced me it's too easy for the Eldar aircraft list to play around any melee Knight. The Crusader with the Icarus Autocannon can threaten aircraft and pulverize bikes.
I think I am prepared for Knights. Literally everything other than my Skitarii can hurt a Knight.
Triptides Tripsides is going to be about abusing my range advantage and turtling my Breachers on objectives.
GSC, Nids, and Orks is about castling with my Knight in front, Breachers behind it, then Robots, my HQs, then Ironstriders. Just gotta kill em all.
Chaos is a big question mark. There are so many variants now.
Anyhow, it's submitted, but I think I can freely change it up until Thursday?
Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 119pts]: Broad Spectrum Data-tether, Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser
++ Total: [93 PL, 7CP, 1498pts] ++
Due to this specific tournament having very dense terrain(id say more than ITC usual one) we took a spin of our forces that.. Next weekend will be interesting. Wish me hot dice.
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”