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2017/12/19 19:33:03
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I have a really nooby question relating to the below. A.) Are you guys buying the boxes of cadian to assemble these guys?
1) CADIA - CP and LOS battalion [~504 points]
2x Company Commander (60) - take 5+ refunding CPWLT and either Kurov's or Relic of Lost Cadia
3x10 Guardsmen (120) - take mortars if you can, these are the front rank that do the dying
3x1 or 1x3 Basilisks (324) - B.) where does one buy these models I can’t find them anywhere.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ie do you need to eBay extra weapons and that for the cadians or is the standard boxes x3 enough?
Where do you get basilisks from as I can’t find them on the store.
Cheers
Basilisks are extremely hard to source. Physical stores don't have them anymore and I got the last 3 off of frontlinegaming. And the kits you do find have the wrong instructions and the kit itself is actually kind of bad. If you are up for a conversion project, hoard of bits is back up on ebay and he delivers fast. I would recommend the following bits:
This is like ... 25 bucks of bits per basilisk. You will need some kind of gun platform from a terrain kit for the cannon. Maybe get the duncrawler hull for 3.50.
2017/12/19 19:59:14
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I have a really nooby question relating to the below. A.) Are you guys buying the boxes of cadian to assemble these guys?
1) CADIA - CP and LOS battalion [~504 points]
2x Company Commander (60) - take 5+ refunding CPWLT and either Kurov's or Relic of Lost Cadia
3x10 Guardsmen (120) - take mortars if you can, these are the front rank that do the dying
3x1 or 1x3 Basilisks (324) - B.) where does one buy these models I can’t find them anywhere.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ie do you need to eBay extra weapons and that for the cadians or is the standard boxes x3 enough?
Where do you get basilisks from as I can’t find them on the store.
Cheers
I am using Skitarii-counts-as-Guardsmen for now. Vanguard and Rangers for now, but I want to do a mass conversion with leftover bits to get 30 Guardsmen.
Which brings me to my AdMech-related conversion question, which I have moved here.
I am going to take some spare bits and some Anvil parts that came in to make a bunch more infantry. I am leaning toward option 1 in the event that I ever need cowled Vanguard, but option 2 seems right when I look at Mars pattern lasguns.
I don't have as much time to play (or build... or paint... sigh) as I normally would these days. Work work work.
Anyhow, proxies are not the same thing as conversions. Proxies are the use of any object, not necessarily even models, to represent a model. They are disallowed in every tournament I know. Conversions are models specifically made to simulate another model with creative integrity.
Conversions are fine in tournaments, though some organizers want to take a look beforehand.
Some rules of thumb that I know of:
1) Should be roughly the same size as what you are modeling. For infantry, use the exact same base. For unbased vehicles, you can either not use a base if it is the same size or err on the larger side with a base. If a vehicle comes with a base (like our Crawlers), you have to base them, even if it's a pain to pack those 130mm dinner plates into your transport solution.
2) Must follow WYSIWYG. If your PHEAR Crawler (see my previous post if you don't know what this is) is a Basilisk, all PHEAR Crawlers should be Basilisks; you can't use one as a Neutron Crawler stand-in. If one has an extra Heavy Stubber, that one needs a Heavy Stubber modeled onto it. Another example, if I am bringing Skitarii-counts-as-Guardsmen, I am not bringing any other Skitarii, only Guardsmen.
3) You need to explain to your opponent exactly what your conversions are before you start. The burden is always on you to clarify. The more homogeneous your army is, the easier this is going to be.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/19 20:29:22
2017/12/19 21:07:15
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Cadian Brigade 3x CC 6x Infantry Squad
3x Scout Sentinel with HF 2x Basilisk
1x HWT with Mortar
2x Command Squad with Mortar
1x Astropath
Lucius Battallion 2x TPD with Eradication Ray & Phospher Serpenta
2x 10 Vanguard with 3x Plasma and Data Tether
3x 10 Vanguard with Data Tether
2x Neutron Onager
1x Icarus Onagaer
What do you think? (remember the list is ment to be semi-competitive, not ultra competitive!)
2017/12/19 21:26:09
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: So my take on the Lucius and Cadia combo:
Cadian Brigade 3x CC 6x Infantry Squad 3x Scout Sentinel with HF 2x Basilisk 1x HWT with Mortar 2x Command Squad with Mortar 1x Astropath
Lucius Battallion 2x TPD with Eradication Ray & Phospher Serpenta 2x 10 Vanguard with 3x Plasma and Data Tether 3x 10 Vanguard with Data Tether 2x Neutron Onager 1x Icarus Onagaer
What do you think? (remember the list is ment to be semi-competitive, not ultra competitive!)
I was thinking along a very similar line of thought for LUCIUS and CADIA. Mine was similar, but has 1 TPD + 1 Enginseer (fix basilisks, hide), and had 4x1 dragoons in place of 2 extra vanguard squads and the icarus. You can't give +2 to hit to more than 1 squad a shooting phase, so going all in on drop plasma has its limitations. I am very skeptical about the utility of the icarus in light of the new codexes. The nastiest FLY things in the game right now are T7 wave serpents, hive tyrants, and daemon primarchs ... and the icarus has 5 shots that are str6 with no access wound reroll mechanics. If people just brought more T6 fliers then the icarus would have its day again. I kind of want to bring this kind of list to LVO, but it is so technical to play that i would need a lot more practice. You can keep 8 something admech units off the board, or maybe not!!! Huge flexibility there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/19 22:14:17
2017/12/19 22:32:56
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: So my take on the Lucius and Cadia combo:
Cadian Brigade 3x CC 6x Infantry Squad
3x Scout Sentinel with HF 2x Basilisk
1x HWT with Mortar
2x Command Squad with Mortar
1x Astropath
Lucius Battallion 2x TPD with Eradication Ray & Phospher Serpenta
2x 10 Vanguard with 3x Plasma and Data Tether
3x 10 Vanguard with Data Tether
2x Neutron Onager
1x Icarus Onagaer
What do you think? (remember the list is ment to be semi-competitive, not ultra competitive!)
I was thinking along a very similar line of thought for LUCIUS and CADIA. Mine was similar, but has 1 TPD + 1 Enginseer (fix basilisks, hide), and had 4x1 dragoons in place of 2 extra vanguard squads and the icarus. You can't give +2 to hit to more than 1 squad a shooting phase, so going all in on drop plasma has its limitations. I am very skeptical about the utility of the icarus in light of the new codexes. The nastiest FLY things in the game right now are T7 wave serpents, hive tyrants, and daemon primarchs ... and the icarus has 5 shots that are str6 with no access wound reroll mechanics. If people just brought more T6 fliers then the icarus would have its day again. I kind of want to bring this kind of list to LVO, but it is so technical to play that i would need a lot more practice. You can keep 8 something admech units off the board, or maybe not!!! Huge flexibility there.
´
Thats what the second TPD is for, so you can drop him with both plasma squads for rerolling 1´s (not as good as +2 to hit, but still better then nothing).
Also nice idea with the Dragoons. I guess you include them in a Stygies auxillary detachment? Mh don´t know about the Icarus, it still offers a bit of versatility in comparison to the Neutron, especially when you spent a CP for +2 to hit. So are you running 2 or 3 Neutrons?
Well you still got more than a month time to practice ;-) Did you already tested this kind of list? If yes how did it work?
2017/12/19 23:45:56
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I found deep strike plasma to be less good than anticipated in ITC missions. I ran wads of deepstriking plasma elysians one time and they tended to feed. They did damage for one turn, but set me back the rest of the game and they reallllly suffer from opponents who are good at spacing.
THis is of course why I think that LUCIUS will do better than ELYSIANS. Admech plasma is 18" for 2 shots instead of 12" for 2 shots, which is a huge deal. And admech have +2 to hit with the tether or ignore cover with the omnispex, and we have more bodies in the deep strike squads. And the admech drop teams come with 7 additional non-plasma bodies, instead of being 4 man command squads with only a 5+ save.
On the second TPD, I don't think you need it because the one TPD you drop down won't be your warlord and if it dies, you can always use the canticle for rerolling 1s to hit on the next turn. If you get desparate, you can use all those CADIA brigade CP to just spend 2CP and get reroll 1s by force using the strategem.
The trouble with drop plasma is that you can easily overcommit and not kill enough in range, or undercommit and fail to kill the big baddie that needs to die. Having played it, the bigger risk is undercommitting. If you have something to shoot at with your deepstrikes, and they can plausibly kill their points in damage, then you MUST deepstrike them. Holding back isn't that great. Especially if your opponent has a lord of war. If you have a shot at a lord of war, then drop all your deepstrike and put every shot into it to kill it in 1 turn. Holding nothing back .
2017/12/19 23:51:51
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: Sure just every half decent player will screen their LOW against short range alpha strikes.
This actually makes Deep Strike or Infiltrate a lot more important because it keeps the opponent from deploying more aggressively than they usually would.
2017/12/20 12:56:37
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: Sure just every half decent player will screen their LOW against short range alpha strikes.
This actually makes Deep Strike or Infiltrate a lot more important because it keeps the opponent from deploying more aggressively than they usually would.
And that plays into our whole army! We already have one of the nastiest gunlines at 36". People deploy with that in mind. You start giving them reasons to fear their backfield and they will deploy in a veritable castle - which suits our entire strategy perfectly.
I have some more AdMech models coming in the mail this week - so I will be back to testing lists and ideas instead of playing my 2k League list that was not at all optimized.
Sadly, this means I need to build and paint more models, which I am not excited about. Especially the Dragoons.
Hmm, makes me wonder, anyone ever tried infiltrating Kastelan Robots with Stygies to place them really close to the opponent ? Imagine, you get first turn, you spend a CP to make them double shot and boom, rain of fire from behind. Of course you'd better have the first turn. It shouldn't be used in every situation and against every army, but I'll try to place it sometimes with my two Robots.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/12/20 13:20:17
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
lash92 wrote: I don't know, that's a lot of points for effectively one round of shooting, because next round they just get tied up by some chaff.
Yes of course, which is why you wouldn't do this against a horde list, problem is most good lists are horde lists :/ Or infiltrate a counter-charge unit like Infiltrators or Fulgurites ?
Note that I'm not saying this would be a useful tactic, just that it may be interesting in case you're playing against a backfield army that outranges you or something.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/12/20 13:57:15
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Aaranis wrote: Hmm, makes me wonder, anyone ever tried infiltrating Kastelan Robots with Stygies to place them really close to the opponent ? Imagine, you get first turn, you spend a CP to make them double shot and boom, rain of fire from behind. Of course you'd better have the first turn. It shouldn't be used in every situation and against every army, but I'll try to place it sometimes with my two Robots.
I think the best thing to do with infiltrating Stygies robots is make them fisticuff-bots and go Conqueror protocols with Binharic Override. Then you get what, like, 6 or 8 attacks per bot that are flat 3 damage, AP-3, strength 10?
Also, no one ever replied, but I think I've chosen Graia as my superheavy repair battalion Forge World.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/20 14:08:11
2017/12/20 14:49:15
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Unit1126PLL wrote: I think the best thing to do with infiltrating Stygies robots is make them fisticuff-bots and go Conqueror protocols with Binharic Override. Then you get what, like, 6 or 8 attacks per bot that are flat 3 damage, AP-3, strength 10?
Also, no one ever replied, but I think I've chosen Graia as my superheavy repair battalion Forge World.
I've talked about this idea of Punching Bots way earlier, the problem is they'd probably be a one-shot unit, seeing as they'll be focused early on (which you can use to your advantage by moving your army forward in the meantime), and with a proper screening unit you won't be able to pierce through the chaff to get to your target (a high Toughness model, likely). So it's really hard to place too, and the obscene price of the Fists is disheartening. I still want to run a pair of Punching Bots, their theoretical damage output looks insane, but I've yet to do the maths (dunno the formulas). Other problem is that the only way to amp up their damage is by reroll 1s to Hit doctrina.
40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts
2017/12/20 14:58:17
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Unit1126PLL wrote: I think the best thing to do with infiltrating Stygies robots is make them fisticuff-bots and go Conqueror protocols with Binharic Override. Then you get what, like, 6 or 8 attacks per bot that are flat 3 damage, AP-3, strength 10?
Also, no one ever replied, but I think I've chosen Graia as my superheavy repair battalion Forge World.
I've talked about this idea of Punching Bots way earlier, the problem is they'd probably be a one-shot unit, seeing as they'll be focused early on (which you can use to your advantage by moving your army forward in the meantime), and with a proper screening unit you won't be able to pierce through the chaff to get to your target (a high Toughness model, likely). So it's really hard to place too, and the obscene price of the Fists is disheartening. I still want to run a pair of Punching Bots, their theoretical damage output looks insane, but I've yet to do the maths (dunno the formulas). Other problem is that the only way to amp up their damage is by reroll 1s to Hit doctrina.
I mean, you could take like 6 of them and keep them in Aegis if you're worried about durability, and that way they could flamer through the screen and charge something behind it (remember, you can move closer to the enemy than 9" after using the stygies stratagem, as it lets you move on your first turn). Hell, you could infiltrate a bunch of Grav Servitors and get 15 Str 5 AP-3 shots to evaporate screens, even using the elimination volley stratagem if you really wished, and punch a hole in the screen wide enough for bots to charge through. In fact, if you brought like 6 bots in one squad, you could leave them in Aegis, charge the screen across a huge frontage with 6 bots, have them swapped to Conqueror, but it doesn't take effect until the next turn - meaning you're still in Aegis when the screens fall back and you are shot, and then you tick over to Conqueror just in time to get to the meat behind the screens.
2017/12/20 17:05:01
Subject: Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Can the lucius deep strike stratagem be used more than once?
I have 2 castellan robots, and 10 fw castellax robots that I'm going to use as castellans...and deep striking 12 robots in sounds like a fun thing to do.
I've played one game of 8th with my admech, and got crushed, but I didn't know rules or how many eldar psychic planes were...I had no anti air in my list...or psychic defense...grr...but it seems like kataphrons are a bit pricey. Points wise.
What's the best loadout for kataphrons? I have 6 with heavy grav and 3 with heavy arc rifles. The arc rifles are cheap, but I'm thinking changing them out with torsion rifles might be better.
Any thoughts?
2017/12/20 20:12:01
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
Total: 1995 points ~~ need to calc again but close to this 8 Command Points
already made a list with 7 staff priest instead of 1more basilisks and the extra 5 points. also valid since i got the priests and they perform well while i still fixing my basilisk. 7 priests make the list 1999 (1995 -108 + 112)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/20 20:40:29
2017/12/20 20:12:55
Subject: Re:Tactica Mechanicus - Chapter Approved upon us
I did the math awhile back. Cawl is less efficient than TDP at 1000 points if we're just comparing the effect of the aura on average dice outcomes. You need roughly 700-800 points of artillery to make him worthwhile.
