Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Even if I had zero Infantry, I would still bring one Company Commander for my Warlord. Pay 30 points to fulfill a tax and get 5+/5+. Hard to pass up.

So in my case (no astra militarum), 3x scout, commander(aquila and strategist), primaris psyker?
+ inquisitor, 3 assassins (or just add 2 assassins to the previous detachment)
+ big admech detachment (or even 2)

ps: what's the official company commander miniature

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Well a lot of top imperium lists have 1 librarian. They're pretty useful. Plus what else will you take from spacemarine HQs. You don't wanna lose the traits.

Sure, but most of his powers only affect other adeptus astartes. I guess null zone is really good but I personally feel like they have limited utility in an army mostly consisting of other stuff.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So in my case (no astra militarum), 3x scout, commander(aquila and strategist), primaris psyker?
+ inquisitor, 3 assassins (or just add 2 assassins to the previous detachment)
+ big admech detachment (or even 2)

ps: what's the official company commander miniature

I believe people take: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Command-Squad-2017

And then build the guy with the beret/flat cap hat thing. Equip him with a sword arm and a las pistol. Bish bosh bing!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Suzuteo wrote:
Even if I had zero Infantry, I would still bring one Company Commander for my Warlord. Pay 30 points to fulfill a tax and get 5+/5+. Hard to pass up.

Suzuteo do you live in America? The timings of your posts seem to be on an almost European timeline. Was halfheartedly trying to figure out if your up unbelievably early or ridiculously late haha

So how about this:

Company Commander
Primaris Psyker
3x5 scouts

Inquisitor
Cullexus
Callidus
Eversor

Mars
Cawl
Enginseer
3x6 rangers
3x6 vanguards (-1 for one)
6 DakKastelans
2 Icarus Onagers

OR

Stygies
Dominus
Enginseer
3x7 Rangers
3x7 vanguard (1 with arc)
6 Balistarii
6 Dragoons

Do sisters work well with admech? If they do should I wait until they come out in plastic or continue working towards imperial knights who are too cool to ignore just because of rules.

It's a long time until plastic sisters. Could be end of 2019 for all we know

 kastelen wrote:
Do sisters work well with admech? If they do should I wait until they come out in plastic or continue working towards imperial knights who are too cool to ignore just because of rules.

Your budget will answer that question for you. But knights are always cool. Who knows what the sisters launch will entail but as rvd says it’s a fair ways off


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So how about this:

Company Commander
Primaris Psyker
3x5 scouts

Inquisitor
Cullexus
Callidus
Eversor

Mars
Cawl
Enginseer
3x6 rangers
3x6 vanguards (-1 for one)
6 DakKastelans
2 Icarus Onagers

OR

Stygies
Dominus
Enginseer
3x7 Rangers
3x7 vanguard (1 with arc)
6 Balistarii
6 Dragoons

I’m probably being a bit thick here. What is the stygies replacing the entire list or just the mars section? That many ironstrider/dragoons would be awesome. Do you have that many?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait that stygies comes to just shy of 1260 points. Think I’ve answered my own question

I personally like that stygies list better since most of your anti-tank is tied up in dakkastelans in that mars detachment. Depending on terrain (or lucky charges) a significant portion of your army risks being tied up. The legs on that stygies list gives you more flexibility. It's lascannon balistarii you had in mind right? (However buying and then building & painting 12 dragoons/balistarii has got to suck)

ye, ofc lascannon :p

How many dragoons are currently in your collection rvd?

My pre-nerfs soup battalion:

225 Celestine
30 Company commander (5+/5+)
55 scouts
55 scouts
55 scouts

You don't need chapter tactics for the scouts. They aren't there for damage.

I personally dont rate celestine these days. She can get in the face of the enemy fast, but I find that her damage rarely sticks. I have fielded her twice and seen her fielded twice recently and every time she has failed to really destroy anything of note. For the point I would rather have a Blood Angel Captain Smash.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So in my case (no astra militarum), 3x scout, commander(aquila and strategist), primaris psyker?
+ inquisitor, 3 assassins (or just add 2 assassins to the previous detachment)
+ big admech detachment (or even 2)

ps: what's the official company commander miniature

Yeah, I do two Commanders, but if they're doing an HQ nerf, I will do a Primaris Psyker instead.

I made my own Company Commander with a Skitarius Prime. All my Infantry/Vanguard use Anvil Gothic Void Torsos + Short Greatcoat Legs, so they stand out.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Suzuteo do you live in America? The timings of your posts seem to be on an almost European timeline. Was halfheartedly trying to figure out if your up unbelievably early or ridiculously late haha

I live in the US, in the SF Bay Area. It's near where Wulfey is, actually. Very competitive scene.

I just work weird hours because I have to deal with remote workers in Japan and China.

Ideasweasel wrote:
How many dragoons are currently in your collection rvd?

Only 3 Dragoons, 3 Balistarii (which I can use as 6 of either because no one cares)

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So in my case (no astra militarum), 3x scout, commander(aquila and strategist), primaris psyker?
+ inquisitor, 3 assassins (or just add 2 assassins to the previous detachment)
+ big admech detachment (or even 2)

ps: what's the official company commander miniature

Yeah, I do two Commanders, but if they're doing an HQ nerf, I will do a Primaris Psyker instead.

I made my own Company Commander with a Skitarius Prime. All my Infantry/Vanguard use Anvil Gothic Void Torsos + Short Greatcoat Legs, so they stand out.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Suzuteo do you live in America? The timings of your posts seem to be on an almost European timeline. Was halfheartedly trying to figure out if your up unbelievably early or ridiculously late haha

I live in the US, in the SF Bay Area. It's near where Wulfey is, actually. Very competitive scene.

I just work weird hours because I have to deal with remote workers in Japan and China.

Ah that explains it then. I’ve been once on holiday when I used to live in Houston. On our way out of the states we visited friends in Cali and did a bit of traveling. Seemed a nice place. The tv show mythbusters is filmed in your neck of the woods too iirc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
How many dragoons are currently in your collection rvd?

Only 3 Dragoons, 3 Balistarii (which I can use as 6 of either because no one cares)

Nice, love the models. A big stack of them can be hammer blow to the wallet though. I wonder how tricky they would
be to magnetise but like you say. Nobody minds if you proxy them as either

Ideasweasel wrote:

Nice, love the models. A big stack of them can be hammer blow to the wallet though. I wonder how tricky they would
be to magnetise but like you say. Nobody minds if you proxy them as either

I'm too pedantic to allow myself the luxury of proxying. And either I'm real dumb or it's stupid hard to magnetise that model to be able to swap between lascannons, autocannons and taser goad. It's so fiddly and overly complex in build that I just ended up doing them mono-build. I'm sure some mad man has succeeded though

 ultimentra wrote:
I personally dont rate celestine these days. She can get in the face of the enemy fast, but I find that her damage rarely sticks. I have fielded her twice and seen her fielded twice recently and every time she has failed to really destroy anything of note. For the point I would rather have a Blood Angel Captain Smash.

They seem similar, but slamguinius and celestine are radically different models. Celestine costs at most 1Cp per game to reroll her resurrect. Slamguinius is 4 base CP to do his job. Slamguinius is T4, 5W, 3++, so he can die to 30 something basic bolter shots if he isn't in cover. Slamguinius moves 12" a turn, or requires 2CP for his 3d6 charge. Celestine moves 24" a turn. Slamguinius does studendous damage to high toughness single targets or 3wound multi model units. Celestine consistently kills small shooting units in the backfield. Slamguinius brings a lot more to the table when helping a guard brigade that has unlimited CP and poor strategems for turning CP into damage. Celestine is more help for a MARS list that has great ways of turning CP into damage but has a much smaller pool than a guard brigade. Celestine is how I win ITC games. She gets me linebreaker. She gets me 1 unit kill a turn if I pick easy targets. She tanks way more fire than she should. And she has a 24" melee bubble to bail my robots out of trouble. Slamguinius ... I don't have the CP for him. I like the idea. But where do I get the CP?

Celestine seems to have some good uses in your list, have you tried a custodes jetbike shield-captain? I'd imagine he could fill a somewhat similar role a bit cheaper but losing 10" of movement is probably the biggest drawback..Well that, and the fact that they might be hit with a nerf bat soon

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah that explains it then. I’ve been once on holiday when I used to live in Houston. On our way out of the states we visited friends in Cali and did a bit of traveling. Seemed a nice place. The tv show mythbusters is filmed in your neck of the woods too iirc.

It's nice, but don't move here. Lol. The cost of living is insane.

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm too pedantic to allow myself the luxury of proxying. And either I'm real dumb or it's stupid hard to magnetise that model to be able to swap between lascannons, autocannons and taser goad. It's so fiddly and overly complex in build that I just ended up doing them mono-build. I'm sure some mad man has succeeded though

I am sure that the Dark Eldar make captured Guardsmen magnetize Dragoons in the depths of their deepest, darkest dungeons. Just building them is a nightmare. I cannot imagine attaching tiny magnets to their various spindly parts.

Suzuteo wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Ah that explains it then. I’ve been once on holiday when I used to live in Houston. On our way out of the states we visited friends in Cali and did a bit of traveling. Seemed a nice place. The tv show mythbusters is filmed in your neck of the woods too iirc.

It's nice, but don't move here. Lol. The cost of living is insane.

PiñaColada wrote:
I'm too pedantic to allow myself the luxury of proxying. And either I'm real dumb or it's stupid hard to magnetise that model to be able to swap between lascannons, autocannons and taser goad. It's so fiddly and overly complex in build that I just ended up doing them mono-build. I'm sure some mad man has succeeded though

I am sure that the Dark Eldar make captured Guardsmen magnetize Dragoons in the depths of their deepest, darkest dungeons. Just building them is a nightmare. I cannot imagine attaching tiny magnets to their various spindly parts.

Oh absolutely! I love the models and how they play but those things are a pain all the way to the gaming table. I ended up nixing that idea. I basically sat there with a lot of hate in my eyes for an hour trying to write down on paper where all the magnets should be attached and how. It looked like the scribblings of a crazy person.I highly recommend magnetising the taser goad arm though, it's super simple and helps transporting them (and dynamic poses) alot.

Also, regarding crazy rent, I have a friend who lives in Lower Haight in SF. The dollar to square foot ratio is so bad I wanted to laugh and cry at the same time. It's a nice city though

How do you guys counter a ""standard"" 2k guard army?

By which I mean like 60 inf, 6 commanders, 20 scions w plasma, 4 arty, 3 tanks, mortars, and 4-5 light vehicles

I just melt away under that firepower, much of which is hard to target

PiñaColada wrote:
Also, regarding crazy rent, I have a friend who lives in Lower Haight in SF. The dollar to square foot ratio is so bad I wanted to laugh and cry at the same time. It's a nice city though

It used to be a nice city. The homeless problem has gotten out of control. There are mentally disturbed people walking around, insane levels of property crime, needles on the floor, and the Tenderloin smells like a flooded-out weed shop.

On a more positive note, I finished my Scouts!


I included them in the Painting Challenge for March, which coincidentally was Space Marines.

 dicerage wrote:
How do you guys counter a ""standard"" 2k guard army?

By which I mean like 60 inf, 6 commanders, 20 scions w plasma, 4 arty, 3 tanks, mortars, and 4-5 light vehicles

I just melt away under that firepower, much of which is hard to target

I don't think we actually struggle that much against other shooting armies any more. Especially not Guard ever since the Scion nerfs. Oh, and the Conscript nerfs. Sometimes, Guard would just win by parking so Conscripts on an objective that you don't have enough time to kill them all.

There are three components to countering ranged that competitive AdMech armies utilize:
1) Scouts and your screen force them to foot slog or ride in transports to get close to your gun line.
2a) Dragoons are great for stopping transports and opening them up like tin cans. At the very least, they force them to disembark to shoot.
2b) Custodes just mow down infantry with their Bolters, and their lances are pretty versatile, though they don't hit nearly as hard as Dragoon lances.
3) Dakkabots and your own artillery just flat-out win trades because you have a better reroll, stronger guns, and repairs. Just make sure any lascannon/missile teams are taken out first; they are low-hanging fruit for Phosphor Blasters.

But can you fit that much stuff into 2000 points of Guard? I mean, the infantry in your rough list alone is close to 1000 points.

Just some classic admech of kastelans, neutron lasers and dragoons seem to work real well for me against guard. Use your kastelans to obliterate screens and heavy weapon teams since they're basically god-tier at that. Dragoons to counter charge their forward units and then move on to the backline, neutrons to melt their tank commanders/pask. One group of infiltrators is good so you're forcing a certain type of backfield deployment (or if he doesn't correct, just drop in and charge basilisks) and by turn 2 or 3 they should be able to drop in, shoot some stragglers and tie up tanks.

My experience with guard based screens has shied me away from putting guardsmen on the table to support admech. If you get dawn of war, and you go second, then your opponent can deepstrike within 18" of your dakkabots if you don't have scouts. Your deployment zone is 12" deep. Guardsmen push the deepstrike back to 9" from the line. The dakkabots have about a 3" deep base. That means 18" deeptrike. That is within threat for tau deepstrike, obliterators, and possibly a cheesy pile in from a 3d6 deepstrike threat (bloodletters / goatmen). Rangers and vanguard similarly put you in an auto lose situation if you go second a thin deployment zone.

Scout marines can deploy in a way to push those threats to 27". And everyone runs anti-screen shooting now, so basic gaurdsmen just don't do the job they used to do. And of course this makes the pricier and less flexible admech infantry even worse. The assumption in competitive is now that your screen will melt. So distance becomes the only thing protecting your dakkabots.

The idea with incorporating celestine and the shield captains is to provide somethign that can heroically intervene and charge the stuff that eats the scouts before the threat hits the dakkabots. EDIT: dragoons could also do this job. However, I kept having bad experiences with terrain, and moving enormous bases in/through formation, and piling in, and flamer overwatches, and smites, and primarchs just obliterating my dragoons, and having no native rerolls to charge, and shooting that ignores modifiers. Shield captains and celestine also suffer from the durability problems, but they FLY.

Wulfey wrote:
My experience with guard based screens has shied me away from putting guardsmen on the table to support admech. If you get dawn of war, and you go second, then your opponent can deepstrike within 18" of your dakkabots if you don't have scouts. Your deployment zone is 12" deep. Guardsmen push the deepstrike back to 9" from the line. The dakkabots have about a 3" deep base. That means 18" deeptrike. That is within threat for tau deepstrike, obliterators, and possibly a cheesy pile in from a 3d6 deepstrike threat (bloodletters / goatmen). Rangers and vanguard similarly put you in an auto lose situation if you go second a thin deployment zone.

Scout marines can deploy in a way to push those threats to 27". And everyone runs anti-screen shooting now, so basic gaurdsmen just don't do the job they used to do. And of course this makes the pricier and less flexible admech infantry even worse. The assumption in competitive is now that your screen will melt. So distance becomes the only thing protecting your dakkabots.

The idea with incorporating celestine and the shield captains is to provide somethign that can heroically intervene and charge the stuff that eats the scouts because the threat hits the dakkabots.

Yeah I feel this. Hangup of scouts is the expensive marine HQ. Do you use Scouts in mixed Imperial detachments? Maybe a Primaris Psyker HQ?

 axisofentropy wrote:
Yeah I feel this. Hangup of scouts is the expensive marine HQ. Do you use Scouts in mixed Imperial detachments? Maybe a Primaris Psyker HQ?

Yeah. Company Commander and Primaris Psyker. The Scouts should not be expected to kill anything, just buy as much time as possible. Knives and Bolt Pistols, charge vehicles and such.

 axisofentropy wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
My experience with guard based screens has shied me away from putting guardsmen on the table to support admech. If you get dawn of war, and you go second, then your opponent can deepstrike within 18" of your dakkabots if you don't have scouts. Your deployment zone is 12" deep. Guardsmen push the deepstrike back to 9" from the line. The dakkabots have about a 3" deep base. That means 18" deeptrike. That is within threat for tau deepstrike, obliterators, and possibly a cheesy pile in from a 3d6 deepstrike threat (bloodletters / goatmen). Rangers and vanguard similarly put you in an auto lose situation if you go second a thin deployment zone.

Scout marines can deploy in a way to push those threats to 27". And everyone runs anti-screen shooting now, so basic gaurdsmen just don't do the job they used to do. And of course this makes the pricier and less flexible admech infantry even worse. The assumption in competitive is now that your screen will melt. So distance becomes the only thing protecting your dakkabots.

The idea with incorporating celestine and the shield captains is to provide somethign that can heroically intervene and charge the stuff that eats the scouts because the threat hits the dakkabots.

Yeah I feel this. Hangup of scouts is the expensive marine HQ. Do you use Scouts in mixed Imperial detachments? Maybe a Primaris Psyker HQ?

Well some of those HQ dudes for Marines ain't too bad for the investment. Only specific builds will ever contribute anything though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well some of those HQ dudes for Marines ain't too bad for the investment. Only specific builds will ever contribute anything though.

I think the problem is that they're force multipliers for adeptus astartes, so if you only have 15 scouts it's not worth the investment. But for the people running scouts, do you ever throw a heavy bolter on one of the units for access to the hellfire shells stratagem?

PiñaColada wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well some of those HQ dudes for Marines ain't too bad for the investment. Only specific builds will ever contribute anything though.

I think the problem is that they're force multipliers for adeptus astartes, so if you only have 15 scouts it's not worth the investment. But for the people running scouts, do you ever throw a heavy bolter on one of the units for access to the hellfire shells stratagem?

Scout marines made a lot of appearances in the top imperium LVO lists. Pretty much every one had them. I saw zero heavy bolters. Storm bolters yes, because 2 points for another bolter shot is a good deal. The problem is that all space marine HQs are taxes in a majority admech list (except for slamguinius, who can carry his weight if given the CPs needed to deal damage). And if you don't take 2 space marine HQs, then you aren't getting the strategems.