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@LexOdin9

The Eradicator Onager is unfortunately not good. I would stick with the neutron for anti-tanks and icarus if you fight a lot of xenos with skimmers and flyers.

I'm really starting to lean towards just using the icarus onager instead of the neutronager mainly because my regional meta (Houston region) sees a lot of players that run lists the neutronager does not perform well against.

I'd say the neutronager would only be useful in somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of the games I play, both competitively and casually. I've been running up against a lot of armies that run hordes and the high wound models will tend to have 3++ or 4++.

On rare occasions, I'll fight a list with 2-3 transports which will make me wish I had a neutronager in my list. But I run dragoons and this solves my problem, for the most part.

Suzuteo wrote:
Actually, I think Knights will always be competitive in a narrow band. This is because their army's strategy is mostly dominant and non-interactive.

Anyhow, assuming the new codex is good, I wonder if we would eventually want to try to integrate a Knight into our armies. In the spirit of innovation, I tried to remake my old Index list:

Spoiler:

Imperium Battalion Detachment - 242

HQ - 77
1x Company Commander - Laspistol, Chainsword, Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 165
5x Space Marine Scout - 5x Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 4x Combat Knife
5x Space Marine Scout - 5x Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 4x Combat Knife
5x Space Marine Scout - 5x Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, 4x Combat Knife

Stygies VIII Spearhead Detachment - 1244

HQ - 125
1x Tech-Priest Dominus

Troop - 35
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Heavy Support - 540
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether

Fast Attack - 544
4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 512

Lord of War - 512
Knight Crusader - Titanic Feet, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Thermal Cannon, Heavy Stubber

Total: 1998 points
7 Command Points

So one Enginseer for the repair. A strong mechanized melee component and a decent 48" scoot-and-shoot component.

EDIT: Actually, might have gone overboard with the Crawlers. Haha.

I like the look of this list. If you can make this work that’s awesome. Good luck sir!

Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

 LexOdin9 wrote:
I'm really starting to lean towards just using the icarus onager instead of the neutronager mainly because my regional meta (Houston region) sees a lot of players that run lists the neutronager does not perform well against.

I'd say the neutronager would only be useful in somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 of the games I play, both competitively and casually. I've been running up against a lot of armies that run hordes and the high wound models will tend to have 3++ or 4++.

On rare occasions, I'll fight a list with 2-3 transports which will make me wish I had a neutronager in my list. But I run dragoons and this solves my problem, for the most part.

Yeah, that's always a meta-related decision. Like I don't apply 70% of the advices here just because my meta sees precisely ONE guard player, one person that uses Infantry Squads I mean. Screens in my meta are just deep-strike deniers that die as soon as I need to deep-strike.

I think Neutron is the choice if you actually expect to play against some really tank/Knight-heavy armies. But in TAC tourneys, you want Icarus for their ability to decimate Assault Marines and Tau Battlesuits and Drones. They are comparable against high-toughness flyers, superior if they have an invulnerable save.

But like I said, getting harder to justify Crawlers when you can replace them with more Dragoons and Robots.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

Are they best used in support of taking out vehicles ie with dragoons to nuke tanks? I’m thinking of getting some but can’t quite work out how to fit them points wise. Would probably want to take a full squad of 20.

My main issue is they seem fragile on their way into combat

Ideasweasel wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

Are they best used in support of taking out vehicles ie with dragoons to nuke tanks? I’m thinking of getting some but can’t quite work out how to fit them points wise. Would probably want to take a full squad of 20.

My main issue is they seem fragile on their way into combat

If you can't get them to shoot immediately, they're not going to be around for long. At least Dragoons are pretty tough to remove for their cost.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

I brought mine to one day of playing. That time they made their charge against some orcs, killed 5, and then were annihilated. That made me super sour on them. They did good work against high point high invul save harlequins though.

Wulfey wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

I brought mine to one day of playing. That time they made their charge against some orcs, killed 5, and then were annihilated. That made me super sour on them. They did good work against high point high invul save harlequins though.

Yeah, well, that's tough luck. My two Robots killed 3 Brimstones with 36 shots once, doesn't mean Robots are awful. 5 Fulgurites slay 4,44 wounds of MEQ on average, without counting the Voltagheist field charge. You kill 22,2 wounds of GEQ (+- 25 if it's a unit of let's say 20 you're charging) with 20 Fulgurites, then you have them amped up and ready to wreck havoc for a few turns. Of course they shouldn't be killing the screens, but they can kill anything. It get's trickier when you start using stupid 5+ FnP from DG but who doesn't have difficulties against DG ?

I am not saying that fulgurites can't do damage. But that they have a super specific target that they have trouble hitting. They are not point efficient against chaff units without invuls. And they are not point efficient against high T models due to only being str 6. Rather, they come into their own against T3-5 models that have invulnerable saves that would otherwise protect them. The big reason why never see any competitive play is that no one can find a way to put them into place to actually hit those T3-5 models with invul saves. Any other target results in a points efficiency mismatch where you have heaps of points of fulgurites killing not enough points in chaff or not enough points in space marines (that can shoot them as they close in) or not actually killing a T7/11W rhino.

Yuuuuup. Exactly. How do you expect to hit anything elite with a 6'' move melee unit? Because against a good player you'll hit the screen first - which is not what you want to hit. The turn after, even if you somehow power up, you will die to anti-horde shooting as easy as a tactical marine except you pay 16 pts...

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Yuuuuup. Exactly. How do you expect to hit anything elite with a 6'' move melee unit? Because against a good player you'll hit the screen first - which is not what you want to hit. The turn after, even if you somehow power up, you will die to anti-horde shooting as easy as a tactical marine except you pay 16 pts...

Yeah, well hopefully they are a good distraction carnifex as your opponent wastes a lot of shots removing those hideous models off the board haha. No but seriously, what you've stated is the exact reason I've never gotten them. They would need a flying transport to become really effective and that probably won't happen anytime soon. (Or if we get that sweet forgeworld drill-transport, just something that has the ability to swoop past screens)

You guys missed the part where they name drop an Admech transport flyer in Forgebane:

"Within the space of an hour, Ologostion had summoned the Quadrus pattern drop-lander Bellerophobos to the site - not for the purposes of personnel removal, as was its primary duty, but so that the donwdraft of its pivoting engine . . ."

Maybe we'll get this in 2019 or 2020?

So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

I've been saying they need a transport or Stygies' infiltration stratagem to work, it doesn't change the fact they're one of the best units we have. And shoot the screen, that's like the only thing we do well in this army.

Iago40k wrote:
So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

Custodes Bikes have anti-horde shooting and great counter-charging. They are strong, but I can't say I'm a fan. AdMech already has some of the best anti-infantry options in the meta, and one of the hardest hitting counter-chargers to boot. The advantage of the Custodes over Dragoons is their flying, which lets them reach other flying enemies, but we also have Icarus Crawlers to shoot at flyers.

Suzuteo wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

Custodes Bikes have anti-horde shooting and great counter-charging. They are strong, but I can't say I'm a fan. AdMech already has some of the best anti-infantry options in the meta, and one of the hardest hitting counter-chargers to boot. The advantage of the Custodes over Dragoons is their flying, which lets them reach other flying enemies, but we also have Icarus Crawlers to shoot at flyers.

True but I am on a path which leads to "no gunline" stuff atm. I dont see the point of having Dunecrawlers sitting in the back while I can take a shield captaion with the salvo launcher and get him shooting flyers and charging stuff.
your point is pretty valid though, Mechanicus and Custodes are pretty good at doing the same thing...though I am way in favor of some flying bikes than rooted Kastellans...plus I mean we know that AdMech doesnt win any tournaments so we gotta think about what to add to them.

Gotta say dragoons are more expensive models per point than Custodes

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
All you need is to paint the rim of the base differently. Red and black/grey. Simple enough

Well I started making Stygies paint scheme by replacing my red with black, and giving them red armour panels instead of metallic ones.
It works out OK, so it's distinguishable and if ever I play mono FW, then it is easy enough for my opponent to remember it anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
To be fair I think we're going to see a "Tau commander" style Nerf for many armies. It's not just Have tyrants after all, we see tons of daemon princes, IG commanders/tank commanders, Shield Captains, etc. Etc. A lot of busted stuff can come from the HQ sections so I wouldn't be surprised if GW just decides to lay down a blanket rule for "commander" style units where they are limited to one per detachment. If this does happen, it's going to be rough on admech if the dominus is included. All the starter sets come with dominuses and I haven't seen any bundles that come with the new techpriest, which means I'll need to buy a few at base cost.

I kind of need to figure out what I'm going to do with all these spare dominus anyways. I've got probably 5 by now and the two I've already built are magnetized. I guess I'll just use them to convert up techpriests and as a source of bitz.

That and the Enginseer is a stupid unit, can't repaire knights better than TPD and I play mono mech (including Questor as they're in my codex) so no need for some dude to fix ASTRA MILITARUM ffs...

They need to give us a better HQ if they want to limit TPD's, but as it's almost all we have I don't think they will.

Pff I'm done trying to win against Death Guard. It's always extremely close games and that's fun, but boy do they ever die ? It's ridiculous, I had an Icarus Onager shoot at a Blight Drone for 5 turns before it finally died. Typhus just never died, even after I burnt 2 CP so that my Captain with TH could swing a second time after dying, and don't get me started on their Terminators.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
So in my case (no astra militarum), 3x scout, commander(aquila and strategist), primaris psyker?
+ inquisitor, 3 assassins (or just add 2 assassins to the previous detachment)
+ big admech detachment (or even 2)

ps: what's the official company commander miniature

Yeah, I do two Commanders, but if they're doing an HQ nerf, I will do a Primaris Psyker instead.

I made my own Company Commander with a Skitarius Prime. All my Infantry/Vanguard use Anvil Gothic Void Torsos + Short Greatcoat Legs, so they stand out.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Suzuteo do you live in America? The timings of your posts seem to be on an almost European timeline. Was halfheartedly trying to figure out if your up unbelievably early or ridiculously late haha

I live in the US, in the SF Bay Area. It's near where Wulfey is, actually. Very competitive scene.

I just work weird hours because I have to deal with remote workers in Japan and China.

Ah that explains it then. I’ve been once on holiday when I used to live in Houston. On our way out of the states we visited friends in Cali and did a bit of traveling. Seemed a nice place. The tv show mythbusters is filmed in your neck of the woods too iirc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
How many dragoons are currently in your collection rvd?

Only 3 Dragoons, 3 Balistarii (which I can use as 6 of either because no one cares)

Nice, love the models. A big stack of them can be hammer blow to the wallet though. I wonder how tricky they would
be to magnetise but like you say. Nobody minds if you proxy them as either

I've seen them magnetized somewhere


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ordana wrote:

Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone get any replies from the team regarding the emails for FAQ ideas?

Pretty sure they never reply to stuff like that being "we'll pass it on".

I asked them to give the Atropos the Questor mechanicus keyword at least, as it is a MECHANICUM CERASTUS KNIGHT ATROPOS ffs


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Fulg. damage is actually not great against hordes(aka screen, which is what you'll fight with slow melee units). 2 attacks for 16pts DEDICATED melee unit is gak

Don't forget that if you have 6's to wound (ok, does not happen a lot), this is D3 mortal wounds and therefore D3 dead models (if they are screen models with 1W).

Iago40k wrote:
So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

I tried a test game with 3x shield captains. You can check my post in the previous pages. In summary, they seem good in theory but suffer because they dilute the purpose of you army. In a competitive setting, you need to have an army that is good at something to defeat an opponent. 3x shield captains + some shooting admech results in a diluted army that wants to fight a TAC army in the middle of the board. But if your opponent has an all shooting army, then your fighters aren't going to do anything and your shooters will be outshot. The other problem is that the shield captains really want a lot of CP fed into them to get powered up, but so does admech. I am eating my words here, but just go dragoons over shield captains. Dragoons need less CP to work and take less points to bring a wider screen. They threaten fewer things than the shield captains, but they are also less of an investment for a comparable mid board melee punch. I think the shield captains make more sense with guard, where you have more CPs and less good places to spend them. After trying the shield captains I am going back to celestine. Celestine is much more flexible and is a better threat against that critical character that thinks they are safe.

Wulfey wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

I tried a test game with 3x shield captains. You can check my post in the previous pages. In summary, they seem good in theory but suffer because they dilute the purpose of you army. In a competitive setting, you need to have an army that is good at something to defeat an opponent. 3x shield captains + some shooting admech results in a diluted army that wants to fight a TAC army in the middle of the board. But if your opponent has an all shooting army, then your fighters aren't going to do anything and your shooters will be outshot. The other problem is that the shield captains really want a lot of CP fed into them to get powered up, but so does admech. I am eating my words here, but just go dragoons over shield captains. Dragoons need less CP to work and take less points to bring a wider screen. They threaten fewer things than the shield captains, but they are also less of an investment for a comparable mid board melee punch. I think the shield captains make more sense with guard, where you have more CPs and less good places to spend them. After trying the shield captains I am going back to celestine. Celestine is much more flexible and is a better threat against that critical character that thinks they are safe.

So what’s the latest wulfey tournament build?

Cawl
5xDakabots
2x Icarus

Celestine
Company Comander
3x scouts

And then 500ish points of dragoons and other goodness?

Has anyone played much with a larger emphasis on Ad Mech infantry? In mid-teir games (non tournament lists), they tend to compete with Robots for MVP.

- 5 man Ranger squads with Arc Rifle to allow me to buffer the charges while survivors have range to all contribute regardless of location
- 5 man Ranger squads with Arquebus on the flanks help make life difficult for deep strikers, while again being able to contribute to the battle with their long range
- 10 man Vanguard squads are great counter punch, and a cheap way to lay down lots of fire power and only 85pts lost (inc. Tether) if each one gets wiped.

Of course I use Stygies to help with their durability.

Ideasweasel wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
So does anyone got a good idea for mixing custodes with AdMech? I am honest here the more I test Custodes, the less AdMech units are in my list. I used the Custodes part of InControl (Battalion with a unit of 5 bikes) and some necesseraay stuff (Patrol with Culexus, Callidus, Scout Squad, Kurlovs Aquila idiot) paired with some Dragoons in a game and that seems good enough (tabled me some chaos).
What is it that AdMech bring to the table that Custodes need or vice versa? a lot of people say they complement each other very well but to this point I have my issues with finding those synergies despite of "together we smash face if we get first turn and the opponent has no way of blocking us".

I tried a test game with 3x shield captains. You can check my post in the previous pages. In summary, they seem good in theory but suffer because they dilute the purpose of you army. In a competitive setting, you need to have an army that is good at something to defeat an opponent. 3x shield captains + some shooting admech results in a diluted army that wants to fight a TAC army in the middle of the board. But if your opponent has an all shooting army, then your fighters aren't going to do anything and your shooters will be outshot. The other problem is that the shield captains really want a lot of CP fed into them to get powered up, but so does admech. I am eating my words here, but just go dragoons over shield captains. Dragoons need less CP to work and take less points to bring a wider screen. They threaten fewer things than the shield captains, but they are also less of an investment for a comparable mid board melee punch. I think the shield captains make more sense with guard, where you have more CPs and less good places to spend them. After trying the shield captains I am going back to celestine. Celestine is much more flexible and is a better threat against that critical character that thinks they are safe.

So what’s the latest wulfey tournament build?

Cawl
5xDakabots
2x Icarus

Celestine
Company Comander
3x scouts

And then 500ish points of dragoons and other goodness?

Yes. Run the army as a shooting army and keep celestine to win objectives and cripple characters. Putting 500-600 points of fighting unit points into melee doesn't make sense if I am already 1000 points deep in shooting.

EDIT: this is what my current plan to paint up for next weekend is:

MARS
Cawl + 1x5 dakkabot + 1x icarus + 2x neutron

SOUP
Celestine + Commander + 3x5 scouts

CADIA
Commander + 2x basilisk + 4x mortar team

It is very similar to the list I took to the last tournament, but with scouts in place of guardsmen (who didn't save me from deepstrikers), and one of the basilisks turned into more mortars and another robot. If the mortars aren't nerfed, they are all stars. 33 points for 10 something bolter shots is great. I have found that they do a good job of covering up the rear of the deployment zone and cheaply denying a rear deepstrike. They give up kill points like crazy ... but so do guardsmen. This list also nicely has just the right amount of commanders(2) to mortars(4) to maximize the reroll order. I am hoping my opponents fear the icarus and target it for destruction first. Spacing is kinda tough on Cawl, but he just needs to be base 6" base to the onagers, which just need those giant pie plates in range. I am basically dead against an unnerfed flyrant list, an unnerfed nick nanavati 220 models list, a true super heavy 3 baneblade / 3 stormsurge lists that gets the first turn, or a tier 1 craftworld/ynnari list from LVO. But I would take this list over anything else out there.

Yeah. Focus on shooting really well. The limitations are: 1) Has to fit inside the Cawl bubble. 2) Have to have enough infantry to screen the enemy away from your shooting units.

The rest go into stuff to buy you time to shoot and that can grab objectives. Dragoons, Celestine, etc. I personally prefer a 4x Dragoon unit still.

Oh, another thing you can do is bring along indirect fire, such as Mortars and Basilisks. The former is good anti-horde, much better than Custodes. The latter is an all-rounder, good for vehicles and characters too. If you Soup them, consider bringing a Master of Ordnance.

I've won recently with:

Mars Spearhead
Archmagos, 3x Robot, Icarus, 2x Neutron

Catachan Battalion
Commander, Primaris, 3x guardsmen (bolter + mortar), 3x Basilisk

Vanguard
2x Elysian Commander (bolter), 5x 6 Elysians 3 plasma special weapon squad, Callidus Assassin, 10 Elysians


Finally got around to completing a larger amount of Elysian infantry so I can field them in full force.

 ph34r wrote:
I've won recently with:

Mars Spearhead
Archmagos, 3x Robot, Icarus, 2x Neutron

Catachan Battalion
Commander, Primaris, 3x guardsmen (bolter + mortar), 3x Basilisk

Vanguard
2x Elysian Commander (bolter), 5x 6 Elysians 3 plasma special weapon squad, Callidus Assassin, 10 Elysians


Finally got around to completing a larger amount of Elysian infantry so I can field them in full force.

Icarus over the fourth Robot? Surprising.

How are the Elysians? They got hit by the nerf too, didn't they?

My area has a unique problem where one guy has a Scorpion that will 1-shot a squad of robots pretty much regardless of how many are in the unit.

Elysian BS 3+ got the 7->13 point plasma nerf.

Special weapon squads are BS 4+, so they are the exact same as they have been the entire time. They're really good. 51 points, 3 plasma guns, deep striking and fixing all your problems.