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Keyword is "any." For the sake of sanity, I won't ask if this means if you can fire a chainsword or so (though you can argue "yes" due to "regardless of the weapon's type) but other than that:

-Does "any" mean "all"? This is critical because the *unit* and not *models* in the unit can fire any of its weapons. If any does not mean all, this order is useless because what is one weapon in a unit going to do?
-Does "any" override any other restrictions? For example, can a unit throw a Grenade and fire a Lasgun, or can the unit throw multiple grenades ala Elysians?

'Any' doesn't mean 'one'. If they wanted you to be able to fire only one weapon it would have said '... any one of its weapons...' 'Any' is used when it is not important to say which person or thing you are referring to, because what you are saying applies to everyone or everything.

Any is only removing the "You can only fire pistols within 1"" restriction. Since models can fire all non-pistol weapons, it basically lets them fire all their non-pistol, non-grenade weapons, all their pistol weapons, or a grenade.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Any is only removing the "You can only fire pistols within 1"" restriction. Since models can fire all non-pistol weapons, it basically lets them fire all their non-pistol, non-grenade weapons, all their pistol weapons, or a grenade.

Then what about the "regardless of the weapon type" clause, hmm?

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Any is only removing the "You can only fire pistols within 1"" restriction. Since models can fire all non-pistol weapons, it basically lets them fire all their non-pistol, non-grenade weapons, all their pistol weapons, or a grenade.

Then what about the "regardless of the weapon type" clause, hmm?

My understanding is that that clause refers to the "within 1" " prohibition on most weapons. Regardless of weapon type, they may fire their weapons while within 1", even if that weapon does not have the Pistol type.

The problem stems from Game Workshop having very muddy Rules concerning the relationship between Weapon Types and the 'Unit Selection' Step to begin with.....
What I believe the Intent to be - The Authors want you to be able to fire any Weapon even if you are within 1 inch of an Enemy, in a similar way that Pistols can. They even force the same targeting restrictions found within the Pistol Weapon Type onto these other Weapon Types, further cementing the intent of the Rule to be simply a way to select the Unit to shoot irregardless of the Selection Restriction. It is poorly worded for my liking, but given it is dealing with a section of the Rulebook is poorly formatted to begin with, it can just sit on the 'write better Rules, Game Workshop' pile and call it the end of the day.


As for the second question:
A rule of thumb I use - If the Rule does not specifically mention a Restriction preventing the Model from firing, then it does not intend for the model to bypass the restriction.
Just, yeah... wish the Authors could word these things better because that one is terrible even for the whole 'pistol-like permission to fire' situation....

By default every model can fire all of its weapons in 8th.

Some weapons prevent you from firing others, for example grenades and pistols.

So the models in the unit can fire any of it's weapins but if it specifically fires a pistol it follows the rules for firing that weapon, so it can only fire pistols.

The short answer is: everything it could normally fire if it wasn't within 1".

So as others have said, each model can fire all non-Pistols/Grenades, all Pistols, or one model per unit can fire a Grenade.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The short answer is: everything it could normally fire if it wasn't within 1".

So as others have said, each model can fire all non-Pistols/Grenades, all Pistols, or one model per unit can fire a Grenade.

Except then you're regarding weapon types.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The short answer is: everything it could normally fire if it wasn't within 1".

So as others have said, each model can fire all non-Pistols/Grenades, all Pistols, or one model per unit can fire a Grenade.

Except then you're regarding weapon types.

You're not regarding them for the purposes of being within 1", but I don't read the rule as removing any other restrictions. If you choose Pistols what do the Pistol rules say? If you throw a Grenade, how many models in the unit can throw Grenades by the Grenade rules?

Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

If you say "only one grenade", or you say "Pistols XOR Rifles", then it's no longer "regardless of weapon type." And since "Any ?= All" then, should "Any!=All," it requires a FAQ to clarify that "The unit can fire any weapon" cannot be interpreted as "only one model in the unit may only fire one weapon." ("Any one of its weapons" versus "any of its weapons.").

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

It's in the part that you cut out. The unit "... can fire any of its weapons while within 1" of the enemy regardless of weapon type.." So what can the unit do regardless of weapon type? The unit "... can fire any of its weapons while within 1" of the enemy..."

 Ghaz wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

It's in the part that you cut out. The unit "... can fire any of its weapons while within 1" of the enemy regardless of weapon type.." So what can the unit do regardless of weapon type? The unit "... can fire any of its weapons while within 1" of the enemy..."

This. Ghaz has it spot on.

(You also can't 'fire a Chainsword', re: bit in the OP, as it isn't one of the five weapon types that can make a Shooting attack. It also has no range, and Melee weapons are only referenced in the Fight Phase rules. So it's not as messy as you suggest - the Core Rules have that covered.)

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

If you say "only one grenade", or you say "Pistols XOR Rifles", then it's no longer "regardless of weapon type." And since "Any ?= All" then, should "Any!=All," it requires a FAQ to clarify that "The unit can fire any weapon" cannot be interpreted as "only one model in the unit may only fire one weapon." ("Any one of its weapons" versus "any of its weapons.").

It's an assumption on your part that any = all. They eliminate the restriction on any weapon being prohibited on firing within 1" of an enemy, so certainly that means any weapon. There is still the restriction on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. If you choose to fire pistols, you can fire all pistols but normally nothing else. Or, you can lob a grenade. Or, you can fire all your other weapons. Sayiing that you can fire any of your weapons within 1" does not lift the restrictions on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. They would have to specifically state that "The unit can fire all its weapons at once, including grenades" instead of saying "The unit can fire any weapon" in order for it to override the restrictions against firing pistols, lobbing grenades and firing other weapons at the same time. You can fire any weapon - shoot pistols, lob a grenade, or fire all your other ranged weapons, but you don't get to fire all weapons because of the rules not overridden.

Again, the intent of the rule is glaringly obvious, if poorly worded. Stop trying so hard.

 doctortom wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

If you say "only one grenade", or you say "Pistols XOR Rifles", then it's no longer "regardless of weapon type." And since "Any ?= All" then, should "Any!=All," it requires a FAQ to clarify that "The unit can fire any weapon" cannot be interpreted as "only one model in the unit may only fire one weapon." ("Any one of its weapons" versus "any of its weapons.").

It's an assumption on your part that any = all. They eliminate the restriction on any weapon being prohibited on firing within 1" of an enemy, so certainly that means any weapon. There is still the restriction on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. If you choose to fire pistols, you can fire all pistols but normally nothing else. Or, you can lob a grenade. Or, you can fire all your other weapons. Sayiing that you can fire any of your weapons within 1" does not lift the restrictions on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. They would have to specifically state that "The unit can fire all its weapons at once, including grenades" instead of saying "The unit can fire any weapon" in order for it to override the restrictions against firing pistols, lobbing grenades and firing other weapons at the same time. You can fire any weapon - shoot pistols, lob a grenade, or fire all your other ranged weapons, but you don't get to fire all weapons because of the rules not overridden.

So by that logic, only one model in the unit gets to fire its weapon, because "the unit may fire any of its weapons."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Again, the intent of the rule is glaringly obvious, if poorly worded. Stop trying so hard.

The same way the "intent" for allowing mix-and-match detachments lets Mortarion take Warptime? Or how Plasma explodes more at night? Or how Elysians can throw all their Grenades?

Try harder. Because the rulewriters aren't.

MagicJuggler, there's a clear consensus on this one... not much point in arguing further. Youve been given the correct options several times above.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Show me the argument for that RAW-wise. "Any of its weapons...regardless of weapon type."

If you say "only one grenade", or you say "Pistols XOR Rifles", then it's no longer "regardless of weapon type." And since "Any ?= All" then, should "Any!=All," it requires a FAQ to clarify that "The unit can fire any weapon" cannot be interpreted as "only one model in the unit may only fire one weapon." ("Any one of its weapons" versus "any of its weapons.").

It's an assumption on your part that any = all. They eliminate the restriction on any weapon being prohibited on firing within 1" of an enemy, so certainly that means any weapon. There is still the restriction on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. If you choose to fire pistols, you can fire all pistols but normally nothing else. Or, you can lob a grenade. Or, you can fire all your other weapons. Sayiing that you can fire any of your weapons within 1" does not lift the restrictions on what weapon types can be fired with what other weapon types. They would have to specifically state that "The unit can fire all its weapons at once, including grenades" instead of saying "The unit can fire any weapon" in order for it to override the restrictions against firing pistols, lobbing grenades and firing other weapons at the same time. You can fire any weapon - shoot pistols, lob a grenade, or fire all your other ranged weapons, but you don't get to fire all weapons because of the rules not overridden.

So by that logic, only one model in the unit gets to fire its weapon, because "the unit may fire any of its weapons."

How so? I don't see where you're making sense with that statement.

Interesting thought that "any" and "any other" are considered equal phrases.

Not to mention, MagicJuggler seems to be conflating unit and model instructions. The list that DocTom listed were instructions for the models. That is not means to conflate that to instructions for the unit entire.

Until the end of the phase, the ordered unit can fire any of its weapons while...
Until the end of the phase, the ordered unit can fire all of its weapons while...
Until the end of the phase, the ordered unit can fire its weapons while...

Now, go figure!


I personally think "regardless of weapons type" is a strong argument for being able to fire grenades aswell