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Hello all.

The basic question is: can you declare legions on a unit by unit basis, and still gain the benefit for doing so?

As an example, can I have a unit of Noise Marines from the Emperors Children Legion and a unit of Khorne Berzerkers from the World Eaters Legion in the same detachment, and have them both count as troops?

I understand the detachment won't be able to benefit from either (or any) Legion Traits, but each of them counting as troops doesn't list as a Legion Trait, just as an effect of having that unit from said Legion.

Thanks for the help!

Cheers.

 Aipoch wrote:
As an example, can I have a unit of Noise Marines from the Emperors Children Legion and a unit of Khorne Berzerkers from the World Eaters Legion in the same detachment, and have them both count as troops?

Yes, you may. The errata adds a special rule forcing those legion's to have these cult marines as Troops.

In fact, if you choose to make the Berzerkers World Eaters and the Noise Marines Emperor's Children, you have no choice in the matter, they MUST be Troops, it's not an optional change.

I hadn't even considered it being a forced change as opposed to an optional one. Great insight, and thank you for the clarification.

Page 135 – Noise Marines, Abilities
Add the following ability:
‘Masters of the Kakophoni: The Battlefield Role of Emperor’s Children Noise Marines is Troops instead
of Elites.

Just an example of the errata, for those curious of the wording.

Since the Noise Marines are EMPEROR'S CHILDREN and the Khorne Berserkers are WORLD EATERS you need to ask yourself if its worth losing your Legion Traits just to take them as Troops.

Very true Ghaz. As it is, I run my Noise Marines as they should be, loaded to the brim with Sonic Blasters and Blast Masters. They have no need of being able to strike first in combat. Their ability to sit on an objective and hold it like a boss as a Troop selection with ObjSec is a very welcome trade, not to mention the joy I have filling my Troop Tax with a unit that doesn't feel like a tax at all.

The Berzerkers were just as a second example really, as they do benefit quite a bit from their Legion Trait.

I believe your troops will only be ObjSec in a pure detachment. I f you mix Legions, you don't get that extra rule.

 alextroy wrote:
I believe your troops will only be ObjSec in a pure detachment. I f you mix Legions, you don't get that extra rule.

ObjSec only needs one keyword, which can be CHAOS.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I believe your troops will only be ObjSec in a pure detachment. I f you mix Legions, you don't get that extra rule.

ObjSec only needs one keyword, which can be CHAOS.

Nah the CSM equivalent of obsec (Despoilers of the galaxy) requires all members of the detachment to be one <legion>.

The generic obsec (which hasn't been released yet, only previewed) requires every member of the detachment to be <Faction> , which is pretty clear to not mean CHAOS/IMPERIUM, but will hopefully be clarified on realease.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I believe your troops will only be ObjSec in a pure detachment. I f you mix Legions, you don't get that extra rule.

ObjSec only needs one keyword, which can be CHAOS.

Nah the CSM equivalent of obsec (Despoilers of the galaxy) requires all members of the detachment to be one <legion>.

The generic obsec (which hasn't been released yet, only previewed) requires every member of the detachment to be <Faction> , which is pretty clear to not mean CHAOS/IMPERIUM, but will hopefully be clarified on realease.

Incorrect. Only legion traits require a "pure" detachment, Despoilers reads: "If your army is Battle-forged, all Troops units in Chaos Space Marine Detachments gain this ability."

The key term here is "Chaos Space Marine Detachments", which is defined as "A Chaos Space Marine Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords."

So you can mix legions all you want and still get Despoilers so long as they ALL have at least one of "<LEGION>, BLACK LEGION, WORD BEARERS, IRON WARRIORS , ALPHA LEGION, NIGHT LORDS, WORLD EATERS, EMPEROR’S CHILDREN, FALLEN or RED CORSAIRS".

Quite right. I guess that's not as bad as I thought, tho losing legion trait is rarely worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(But CHAOS i don't think would cut it)

That was my interpretation as well. The only benefit of running a detachment with every unit being from the same legion is that you gain the specific Legion Trait, and lose it for all units in the detachment if you mix legions among your units.

For the universally useful ones (like Alpha Legion or Night Lords), it does hurt overall to lose the Legion Trait. For legions like Black Legion and Emperors Children, however, the Legion Trait really only benefits certain types of units. Emperors Children units that are never meant to get into close combat receive no benefit (looking at you sonic weapon Noise Marines), and if you're a Black Legion unit without a Rapid Fire weapon, you've lost half the benefit off the bat.

The main list I'm trying to put together has the Armless One leading it, and I'd rather use the CSM models I have as Chosen, so being able to have my Noise Marines run as Emperors Children to fulfill my Troop Requirements gives me a fantastic and insanely powerful set of shooting platforms with ObjSec, and free's up my elite slots for the Chosen and Terminators perfectly. Plus, they still synergize well with Abby since his aura allows anything with Heretic Astartes to ignore morale (regardless of which Legion they are from).

Still kind of miss the days when all you needed to have the cult marines as troops was to have a Lord level character from that legion/dedicated to that choas god. <puts on rose tinted glasses>

In some army compositions, legion traits don't pan out well regardless. I can make a good mixed daemons and Typhus list this way because zombies don't care about a better rapid fire range.