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Yeah, as good as all these stratagems are, it doesn't look like we'll be able to compete with armies that can get nearly 20CPs. Most Eldar lists I've seen have 5-7CPs, 9 at most.
Eldar will burn through CP really fast and if they don't pay off, the game could go downhill fast.

I truly think this will keep Eldar from being top tier this edition...which is ok I guess. Eldar are at least looking to be very playable.

Even a single Fire Prism will be useful as it makes a good target for Guide/Autarch bubble in small games.

I typically want my prisms visible, but in cover if possible. Across the whole board, if something can reach it, they can reach something less durable than a Prism. Out of LOS is nice, but not a big deal for them for that reason.

Bharring wrote:
I typically want my prisms visible, but in cover if possible. Across the whole board, if something can reach it, they can reach something less durable than a Prism. Out of LOS is nice, but not a big deal for them for that reason.

I have the complete opposite experience over the last few editions. If an opponent can see my tanks, they try to kill them first even if their are plenty of closer targets, often because certain weapons are ideal against tanks. This is just as true in 8th due to the Damage characteristic (Lascannons want to shoot at targets with 6 or more wounds).
Being out of LoS ensures that Prisms (one of the most valuable units in my army) can continue to be a threat.

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 Red Corsair wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

I never said anyone needed to do anything. But some people have an ultramarine army because they like ultramarines. Not because ultramarines have the rules they want. If they want to use lots of bikes in one game, then they use lots of ultramarine bikes, and the ultramarines don't suddenly become some other chapter to get better rules. Other people just view the rules as just rules and their chapter is whatever chapter gives them the rules they want that game. It seems clear to me that those are two different kinds of gamers. Nothing wrong with either one, but obviously it says something about them.

It says mostly that GW made a huge design mistake, one that limits both players and model sales. Its especially rough when there is a mismatch with the background or when a specific unit or playstyle becomes the sole province of a specific sub-faction (see red eldar, or white marines).
Though personally I think guard got the most egregious version- if you didn't buy the right models 20 years ago, you can't run the kind of guard army you want, which is super crazy.

Yea such a huge design mistake they literally cannot make models fast enough to meet demand....

Even if that assertion is true, I said design mistake, not marketing mistake. And not one that trumps the other design mistake with guard- that they're simply a collection of 'I win' buttons now.


@Kanluwen- that was true of Marine chapters once upon a time as well. There were alternate color schemes for marine chapters in different environments and came patterns as well. Sadly, it has wandered of the background in favor of you must be Color X to have bonus Y.

@ Voss That assertion is true, theres is a thread dedicated to it on here for feths sake. The assertions about design flaws are all yours and based purely on your subjective view. Maybe if you could explain what the glaring flaws are rather then simply say there are flaws. Is the game perfect, obviously not, but it's at a state thatsbetter then ever before which is why people can't even get the product they want fast enough. That IS all that one needs to look to in order to know the game is in a healthier place.

As for the endless whinging based on speculation only in here, hey look, they reduced costs and made prisms leman russ x10 and gave them even more dope stratagems! As I said countless pages back, the craftworld traits like every other books traits were never going to be some massive sweeping set of rules, just seasoning.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
See? Like I said. There are different kinds of players, and these craftworld rules really make it obvious if a persons army is based on liking the background or liking the rules.

My army colour is chosen because of liking a particular colour scheme for my army, and I have my own Craftworld name and fluff for it. So despite my army scheme being similar to Ulthwe, my fluff is different. As for which Craftworld trait I would choose, i don't know yet. So which category does this put me in? I'll be picking the rules that match my fluff the best, which means I'll be picking because I like the background and I like the rules.

Does this make me a double double waac tfg wtf bbq?

This is disappointing to hear. If nids aren't made competitive we know 8th edition is taking the focus not just narratively on to the Imperium but game and rule wise too.

On twitch are speaking about the changes.. and webway..

If someone can post here ...

Webway strike, Cloud strike (skimmers). Two new strategems mentioned thus far on stream, both forward deployment.

 Red Corsair wrote:
As for the endless whinging based on speculation only in here, hey look, they reduced costs and made prisms leman russ x10 and gave them even more dope stratagems! As I said countless pages back, the craftworld traits like every other books traits were never going to be some massive sweeping set of rules, just seasoning.

And power level isn't what people have had an issue with. To use your seasoning euphemism, people ordered honey roasted, and got lemon pepper instead. Is it bad? No. Is it what was asked for? Absolutely not. So yeah, buffs to shurikens instead of aspect warrior (+1 Ld really isn't a buff for that army, just extra notation) especially when several aspects need buffs to be viable again, is a bit of a raw deal. Same with Iyanden. It's a cool trait, but it isn't a huge buff to what GW has said is the core to Iyanden; the wraithguard. So the "toughest" faction isn't tougher, the psychic faction is the most durable. The faction that uses the least shuriken weapons got a buff to those. The only ones that fit their craftworlds are Saimhan, and Alatoc. A 40% success rate sucks.

oh god yessss....deep striking for infantry for 1 cp, deep strike for VEHICLES for 1 cp, reaper launchers dropped to 22, dire avangers 12 pts, time warp for warlocks.....ahahahah we are fething back guys

 Marfuzzo wrote:
oh god yessss....deep striking for infantry for 1 cp, deep strike for VEHICLES for 1 cp, reaper launchers dropped to 22, dire avangers 12 pts.....ahahahah we are fething back guys

So can <Bikes>, Wraithlords or WKs deepstrike?

I want to combine it with Wraith-axes and Iyanden relic.

 Galef wrote:

 Marfuzzo wrote:
oh god yessss....deep striking for infantry for 1 cp, deep strike for VEHICLES for 1 cp, reaper launchers dropped to 22, dire avangers 12 pts.....ahahahah we are fething back guys

So can <Bikes>, Wraithlords or WKs deepstrike?

I would bet only the old skimmer tanks

I cant stop thinking about my shining spears with a "time warp" of a warlock, they can chrage basically what they want the first turn

Vypers were mentioned as well.

 Marfuzzo wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 Marfuzzo wrote:
oh god yessss....deep striking for infantry for 1 cp, deep strike for VEHICLES for 1 cp, reaper launchers dropped to 22, dire avangers 12 pts.....ahahahah we are fething back guys

So can <Bikes>, Wraithlords or WKs deepstrike?

I would bet only the old skimmer tanks

But, but...Black Guardian Windrider Webway Assault.
I assume the Vehicle WW counts them as moving? So no dropping in a Serpent full of Wraithgurd for them to disembark immediately?

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warlord trait: everything on 6" autopass morale test :O

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Well, I think this speaks well of this edition. Fluffy (or unfluffy depending on your opinion) sub-faction bonuses should not be meant to radically change how a Faction performs. They literally exist to provide flavor, i.e. fun to the game.

Attributes/Traits should be like adding chocolate syrup to a scoop of vanilla ice cream: Just a little extra flavor that adds no nutritional value whatsoever. Stratagems are the cherries on top: they cost a bit extra, but tend to be the part you remember.
But what people seem to be expecting are extra scoops of chocolate and strawberry ice cream added between 2 halves of a banana, drizzled with chocolate and caramel syrup and topped with cherries and strawberries.
You can't have it all, and if you do, you'll get diabetes (i.e. player's hatred) just like 7th ed Eldar.

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This is much friendlier version of what I wanted to say. Have an exalt for the clever and well put analogy.

The guard book is good because of the point costs on things. They just have more then anyone else. The doctrines are not actually that great. Somehow people are equating guard units from the index that were good, remaining good while poor units (russes) becoming playable again to their doctrines. Someone point out which guard doctrine is so amazing? It's the cheap special weapon carriers and countless immovable bodies that make them so good.

Exactly. Outside a few complaints I have here and there, everything outside the Guard codex seems to be pretty balanced all things considered. At the least, I wouldn't feel bad playing semi-competitive now instead of full-on. First time I can say that in years.

Warhammer TV guys just confirmed the Falcon is down by 50 points. Holy moly.

Falcon apparently down by 50 points.

Night Spinner down in points.
Falcon down for 50 points.
Windriders in Fast Attack.
New spells: Executioners (mortal wounds spell), Will of Asuryan (something morale buffing) - 6 spells in total

warlord trait: everything on 6" autopass morale test :O

Alaitoc specific, I think.

webway assault: 1-3 CP to infiltrate
cloud strike: 1 CP vehicle deep strike

Quicken/Restrain: friendly unit within 18" moves again
Protect: +1 armor save (infantry/bikes only probably)

Fate: guide, doom, fortune, executioner (mws), something that gives fearless, mind war

Ynnari can't use "rules"
Attributes apply to everything including flyers

Reapers: 81 points for 3. launcher was 31 now 22
Shining Spears: down 6 to 18
Avengers: 12 points
banshees: no overwatch, advance and charge, +3" charge, can choose things 15" away to charge
Jain Zar: banshees fight first
war walkers: outflank
warp spiders: deep strike
hawks: assault 4, 13 points
scorpions: cheaper
wraithknight: no real changes
hemlock: now -2 Ld aura and cheaper
nightspinners: cheaper
falcon: 50 points cheaper
storm guardians: unchanged
windriders: 18 points w/ catapults, 28 w/ cannon (possibly didn't realize that catapults cost points)
scatter lasers: 15 points

wl traits:
mark of hunter: warlord can snipe characters
+2 move to wl
alatoic puritanical leader: 6" fearless aura
Ulthwe: command point at start of turn on a 6

Remnants:
Phoenix Gem: when slain, on a 2+ do d3 mortal wounds, if kill something then bearer comes back with 1 wound

ok I understood that Ulthwe' craftworld belives in a higher power...the mighty 6 ...I like it, I need new proper dices

So many points drops, hopefully the Hemlock's guns no longer auto-hit to justify that points drop because other wise

 Gamgee wrote:
This is disappointing to hear. If nids aren't made competitive we know 8th edition is taking the focus not just narratively on to the Imperium but game and rule wise too.

What are you on about? - Eldar got a MAJOR boost, esepcially since attributes apply to all units unlike all codexs to date

Am i thinking of this right? Shuriken shots vs Doomed target and +1 wound power from Warlock gives AP-3 on a 5 and 6?

Its wishing big after all that good news, but here's to hoping Scorpions get an extra attack!

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Am i thinking of this right? Shuriken shots vs Doomed target and +1 wound power from Warlock gives AP-3 on a 5 and 6?

The Warlock power is only in the Fight phase.

Dionysodorus wrote:

 DivineVisitor wrote:
Am i thinking of this right? Shuriken shots vs Doomed target and +1 wound power from Warlock gives AP-3 on a 5 and 6?

The Warlock power is only in the Fight phase.

So im thinking of it wrong then

The sniper Warlord Trait could see some use. Reaper Launcher Autarch sniper?