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@pretre: thank you for posting this AFTER i typed all that ...

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

the full description is on miniwargamings review.
once per game, and not if you use cloudstrike, 1CP for 1 infantry or biker, and 3CP for 2

Exactly. And the Cloudstrike stratagem only works "if not using the Webway stratagem" So you have 2 Stratagem that cannot be used more than once under any circumstance, nor can one be used in the same game as the other.
So in Matched play, Eldar can "special deploy" as MAX of 2 units...EVER

I am not ok with Imperium and Chaos being able to do a thing more often than Eldar when that thing has been portrayed as an Eldar speciality.
So either the RG/AL strats need to be FAQ'd to only work once per game, or the Eldar strats need to become unlimited too.

-

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

 Garion wrote:
@pretre: thank you for posting this AFTER i typed all that ...

lol. It just got posted. Took them time to type it too.

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

the full description is on miniwargamings review.
once per game, and not if you use cloudstrike, 1CP for 1 infantry or biker, and 3CP for 2

Exactly. And the Cloudstrike stratagem only works "if not using the Webway stratagem" So you have 2 Stratagem that cannot be used more than once under any circumstance, nor can one be used in the same game as the other.
So in Matched play, Eldar can "special deploy" as MAX of 2 units...EVER

I am not ok with Imperium and Chaos being able to do a thing more often than Eldar when that thing has been portrayed as an Eldar speciality.
So either the RG/AL strats need to be FAQ'd to only work once per game, or the Eldar strats need to become unlimited too.

-

Just so we're clear:
Yours works as a FACTION thing. It's not a SPECIFIC thing. If it were Alaitoc only, I'd be okay with your proposal.

Until Raven Guard and Alpha Legion get their benefits on vehicles, flyers, and things of that nature--zero sympathy.

Red_Drake wrote:

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

Can anyone confirm this as it would be great. The Webway stratagem specifically says it can only be used once per battle. If the Cloudstrike stratagem does not have this restriction, I'll shut up (although Deep Striking Infantry/Bikes would have been better).

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

Can anyone confirm this as it would be great. The Webway stratagem specifically says it can only be used once per battle. If the Cloudstrike stratagem does not have this restriction, I'll shut up (although Deep Striking Infantry/Bikes would have been better).

Except that wouldn't make sense, since Cloudstrike was the name they used for an Apocalypse formation back in the day--it was just Grav Tanks.

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

Can anyone confirm this as it would be great. The Webway stratagem specifically says it can only be used once per battle. If the Cloudstrike stratagem does not have this restriction, I'll shut up (although Deep Striking Infantry/Bikes would have been better).

I can confirm. Cloudstrike can't be used if you use Webway Strike, but it can be used any number of times as long as you can pay for it.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Except that wouldn't make sense, since Cloudstrike was the name they used for an Apocalypse formation back in the day--it was just Grav Tanks.

Oh, Cloudstrike is a fine name for Vehicles to Deep Strike, I was referring to the ability to Deep Strike Infantry, rather than Infiltrate them. I would rather be able to Deep Strike as many Infantry/Bike units (a la, Black Guardians of the last edition) and only be able to drop in 1-2 Vehicle units.

 Cream Tea wrote:
I can confirm. Cloudstrike can't be used if you use Webway Strike, but it can be used any number of times as long as you can pay for it.

Thanks. That helps a bit. Still pretty tactically limiting.

so is it only 1 cloudstrike per round or can you get more than 1 stratagem per turn?

And the old Name was the War gear Card "Falcon Jets" that cost 15 points and made any elder grav unit bikes, vypers falcons or even the super heavy tempest able to deep strike

 admironheart wrote:
so is it only 1 cloudstrike per round or can you get more than 1 stratagem per turn?

And the old Name was the War gear Card "Falcon Jets" that cost 15 points and made any elder grav unit bikes, vypers falcons or even the super heavy tempest able to deep strike

Cloudstrike is used before the first turn, during deployment.

Also, both Webway Strike and Cloudstrike are deep strike, not infiltrate.

 Garion wrote:
Just got my codex, If anyone has questions ask away


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonesingers can heal Wraithknights: they got the Wraith Construct keyword now

Any other rules regarding Ynnari? I know they do not benefit from the Craftworld Traits (-1 to hit, 6+++, and etc). Mostly interested on the wording on unlocking the CWE stratagems, relics, and WT.

does anyone have the forgeworld elder xenos book? Are the datafaxes available online?
Anyone with a link?

With the obvious FAQ and errata would it be better to get the digital forgeworld version? If so how do you use it and access it? Can you put it on your computer and on a smartphone/notebook?

thanks

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

the full description is on miniwargamings review.
once per game, and not if you use cloudstrike, 1CP for 1 infantry or biker, and 3CP for 2

Exactly. And the Cloudstrike stratagem only works "if not using the Webway stratagem" So you have 2 Stratagem that cannot be used more than once under any circumstance, nor can one be used in the same game as the other.
So in Matched play, Eldar can "special deploy" as MAX of 2 units...EVER

I am not ok with Imperium and Chaos being able to do a thing more often than Eldar when that thing has been portrayed as an Eldar speciality.
So either the RG/AL strats need to be FAQ'd to only work once per game, or the Eldar strats need to become unlimited too.

-

2 things:

1. As Kan pointed out, this isn't craftworld specific which is a totally new take on this sort of stratagem allowing you to pull some layered combos.

2. Raven G and Alpha legion don't get anything near as strong. Your not being accurate here, they get pregame infiltrate which means their pants are around their ankles when the enemy siezes 33% of the time with 1CP to reroll (if they need it).

It would have been utterly broken has they let them apply this to anything any number of times. Currently deepstrike, not infiltrate, is THE strongest special rule in the game. I am more then fine with this restriction being in place.

Closest analog currently is Lucius who can teleport any number of things, but luckily admech doesn't even come close to having the units worth synerrgizing with this to be broken. They basically get to keep some incredibly expensive things safe for a turn. They also don't have 18" warp time on the cheapest reliable casters in the game currently. Food for thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 admironheart wrote:
does anyone have the forgeworld elder xenos book? Are the datafaxes available online?
Anyone with a link?

With the obvious FAQ and errata would it be better to get the digital forgeworld version? If so how do you use it and access it? Can you put it on your computer and on a smartphone/notebook?

thanks

I have it, it was only 28 bucks off ebay. If and when they FAQ it I'll just print off the changes and put them in the book.

@ Red Corsiar: You are correct in that I was not being accurate. I was under the impression that the CW stratagems in question were Infiltrate and Deep Strike respectively. It turns out that they are both Deep Strike, which is much better as it does not become useless if you don't get first turn.

So being limited is fair. I was just miffed that Eldar seemed to be getting less deployment shenanigans (which is their preferred style of war) than other armies. Having heard a few more reports seems to indicate that Eldar have a few decent tricks, so all is fine.

 Galef wrote:
@ Red Corsiar: You are correct in that I was not being accurate. I was under the impression that the CW stratagems in question were Infiltrate and Deep Strike respectively. It turns out that they are both Deep Strike, which is much better as it does not become useless if you don't get first turn.

So being limited is fair. I was just miffed that Eldar seemed to be getting less deployment shenanigans (which is their preferred style of war) than other armies. Having heard a few more reports seems to indicate that Eldar have a few decent tricks, so all is fine.

No worries, it's tough keeping all this straight without the actual book in hand yet. I have a feeling that stratagem is going to make eldar VERY scary to play against.

Tautastic wrote:

 Garion wrote:
Just got my codex, If anyone has questions ask away


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonesingers can heal Wraithknights: they got the Wraith Construct keyword now

Any other rules regarding Ynnari? I know they do not benefit from the Craftworld Traits (-1 to hit, 6+++, and etc). Mostly interested on the wording on unlocking the CWE stratagems, relics, and WT.

so..

Craftworld Detachment = any detachment that include only Craftworld units

Craftworld unit / Craftworld Warlord = a unit or a warlord with the Asuryani keyword

If a detachment include any unit with the Ynnari keyword, that detachment is NOT a Craftworld Detachment

A Craftworld Detachment gain the following abilities:

- Path of war == objective secured

- Craftworld Attributes : if your army is BattleForged you gain a Craftworld Attribute if all it's units are from the same Craftworld.

The Craftworld Attributes are the one we alredy known (-1 to hit for Alaitoc, etc etc)

You ignore the Phonix Lords when you check if all the units are from the same Craftworld, but they don't benefict from the attribute

Stratagems: you gain access to them if you army is BattleForged and it includes ANY Craftworld Detachments (except the aux one)

Warlord Traits: you can use them if your warlord is a Craftworld Character. A Craftworld specific Warlord Trait is avalible only to Warlord from the corresponding Craftworld

Relics : if your Warlord is a Craftworld Warlord you can assign the relics to an Asuryani Character (not the Named ones)

I have a feeling that Dark Eldar will get unlimited Deep Strike abilities. Very fluffy, but probably too strong. Either GW will piss off the fluff bunnies by not giving them a true Webway army, or they piss off the rest of the community by making DE way too strong.
Either way it's gonna be a heck of a ride

 Garion wrote:

Tautastic wrote:

 Garion wrote:
Just got my codex, If anyone has questions ask away


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonesingers can heal Wraithknights: they got the Wraith Construct keyword now

Any other rules regarding Ynnari? I know they do not benefit from the Craftworld Traits (-1 to hit, 6+++, and etc). Mostly interested on the wording on unlocking the CWE stratagems, relics, and WT.

so..

Craftworld Detachment = any detachment that include only Craftworld units

Craftworld unit / Craftworld Warlord = a unit or a warlord with the Asuryani keyword

If a detachment include any unit with the Ynnari keyword, that detachment is NOT a Craftworld Detachment

A Craftworld Detachment gain the following abilities:

- Path of war == objective secured

- Craftworld Attributes : if your army is BattleForged you gain a Craftworld Attribute if all it's units are from the same Craftworld.

The Craftworld Attributes are the one we alredy known (-1 to hit for Alaitoc, etc etc)

You ignore the Phonix Lords when you check if all the units are from the same Craftworld, but they don't benefict from the attribute

Stratagems: you gain access to them if you army is BattleForged and it includes ANY Craftworld Detachments (except the aux one)

Warlord Traits: you can use them if your warlord is a Craftworld Character. A Craftworld specific Warlord Trait is avalible only to Warlord from the corresponding Craftworld

Relics : if your Warlord is a Craftworld Warlord you can assign the relics to an Asuryani Character (not the Named ones)

So if you take a Ynnari detachment (one of the Ynnari characters HAS TO BE your warlord) for that detachment you lose access to Craftworld Warlord Traits, Relics, Unique Craftworld attributes and stratagems. Ynnari detachments would only have access to non unique Craftworld stratagems (and that is providing there is at least 1 CWE detachment in your army).

 Red Corsair wrote:
2. Raven G and Alpha legion don't get anything near as strong. Your not being accurate here, they get pregame infiltrate which means their pants are around their ankles when the enemy siezes 33% of the time with 1CP to reroll (if they need it).

It would have been utterly broken has they let them apply this to anything any number of times. Currently deepstrike, not infiltrate, is THE strongest special rule in the game. I am more then fine with this restriction being in place.

One problem with this has though it's totally unscalable rule. Effect is bigger the smaller the game is while the bigger the game goes the smaller the effect. As a fan of non-standard point sizes that would be annoying if we had eldar army here(well I have partial force but too small still to be usable in 8th ed. It's workable as 2nd ed ally force)

Does the Avatar get access to relics? Or does it also count as a named character? Moreover, what warlord trait does he get?

the cosmic serpent wrote:

Spoiler:

 Garion wrote:

Tautastic wrote:

 Garion wrote:
Just got my codex, If anyone has questions ask away


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonesingers can heal Wraithknights: they got the Wraith Construct keyword now

Any other rules regarding Ynnari? I know they do not benefit from the Craftworld Traits (-1 to hit, 6+++, and etc). Mostly interested on the wording on unlocking the CWE stratagems, relics, and WT.

so..

Craftworld Detachment = any detachment that include only Craftworld units

Craftworld unit / Craftworld Warlord = a unit or a warlord with the Asuryani keyword

If a detachment include any unit with the Ynnari keyword, that detachment is NOT a Craftworld Detachment

A Craftworld Detachment gain the following abilities:

- Path of war == objective secured

- Craftworld Attributes : if your army is BattleForged you gain a Craftworld Attribute if all it's units are from the same Craftworld.

The Craftworld Attributes are the one we alredy known (-1 to hit for Alaitoc, etc etc)

You ignore the Phonix Lords when you check if all the units are from the same Craftworld, but they don't benefict from the attribute

Stratagems: you gain access to them if you army is BattleForged and it includes ANY Craftworld Detachments (except the aux one)

Warlord Traits: you can use them if your warlord is a Craftworld Character. A Craftworld specific Warlord Trait is avalible only to Warlord from the corresponding Craftworld

Relics : if your Warlord is a Craftworld Warlord you can assign the relics to an Asuryani Character (not the Named ones)

So if you take a Ynnari detachment (one of the Ynnari characters HAS TO BE your warlord) you lose access to Craftworld Warlord Traits, Relics, Unique Craftworld attributes and stratagems. Ynnari detachments would only have access to non unique Craftworld stratagems.

You lose access to Warlord Traits and Relics, but the Attributes will still apply to units in your CWE detachments, and Stratagems will apply to any unit that has the keyword that the stratagem applies to, Asuryani units for example can still benefit for stratagems even if they also have the Ynnari keyword.
Another important note is that being Ynnari does not prevent a unit for selecting a <Craftwolrd>, only the attribute.

-

 Fafnir wrote:
Does the Avatar get access to relics? Or does it also count as a named character? Moreover, what warlord trait does he get?

If we ignore the fact that there are, fluffwise, many Avatars of Khaine, he has the same "one per army" restriction as Prince Yriel &co and he has a weapon with a name like a relic (the Wailing Doom). I'd say he's a named character and thus can't be given a Remnant of Glory.

He doesn't have a specific Craftworld unlike Yriel and friends, so you pick one for him. However, since he is like a named character in other respects, I'd argue you have to pick the corresponding "named character trait" for the craftworld you choose for him.

Anyone know if the Phoenix lords come with specific warlord traits, I’d imagine they do but giving maugan ra the sniper trait might be fun, although it would also fit him well so it might be his trait already.

 Mantle wrote:
Anyone know if the Phoenix lords come with specific warlord traits, I’d imagine they do but giving maugan ra the sniper trait might be fun, although it would also fit him well so it might be his trait already.

They don't get Warlord Traits at all, nor do they gain craftworld traits. You can still bring them in an Alaitoc detachment without breaking its "alaitocness" though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

Can anyone confirm this as it would be great. The Webway stratagem specifically says it can only be used once per battle. If the Cloudstrike stratagem does not have this restriction, I'll shut up (although Deep Striking Infantry/Bikes would have been better).

Except that wouldn't make sense, since Cloudstrike was the name they used for an Apocalypse formation back in the day--it was just Grav Tanks.

Yeah, and they're using Pathfinder in the name of one of the stratagems now when they used to be enhanced Rangers (before Tau bogarted the name Pathfinder)

Can DA come in bigger squads than 10?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Can DA come in bigger squads than 10?

No. Still 5-10.

 doctortom wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Galef wrote:

Red_Drake wrote:

There's no per-game limit on cloudstrike. You can deepstrike any number of FLY VEHICLES.

Can anyone confirm this as it would be great. The Webway stratagem specifically says it can only be used once per battle. If the Cloudstrike stratagem does not have this restriction, I'll shut up (although Deep Striking Infantry/Bikes would have been better).

Except that wouldn't make sense, since Cloudstrike was the name they used for an Apocalypse formation back in the day--it was just Grav Tanks.

Yeah, and they're using Pathfinder in the name of one of the stratagems now when they used to be enhanced Rangers (before Tau bogarted the name Pathfinder)

Quite a few strategems take their names from old apoc or other formations, or old unit options.

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
2. Raven G and Alpha legion don't get anything near as strong. Your not being accurate here, they get pregame infiltrate which means their pants are around their ankles when the enemy siezes 33% of the time with 1CP to reroll (if they need it).

It would have been utterly broken has they let them apply this to anything any number of times. Currently deepstrike, not infiltrate, is THE strongest special rule in the game. I am more then fine with this restriction being in place.

One problem with this has though it's totally unscalable rule. Effect is bigger the smaller the game is while the bigger the game goes the smaller the effect. As a fan of non-standard point sizes that would be annoying if we had eldar army here(well I have partial force but too small still to be usable in 8th ed. It's workable as 2nd ed ally force)

Except it is scalable. It's got two buy in costs. One for smaller games around 1k and another for the 2k mark, although you can use either cost at either point level. Anything beyond that and your on your own. The designers clearly state what the optimal point levels are in matched play. If you want to play a larger game then like relics I'd simply suggest house ruling the costs. It isn't as if GW will show up from under your gaming table to piss in your Cheerios for making it work for your situation.

Was there any change to the Striking Scorpion rule that they get +1 hit when attacking a unit in cover? Like, did they specify shooting?

Most people seem to assume it's shooting only, although I think it'd be worthy of a YMDC. I'd love it if it worked in CC as well (and would really make sense).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Infiltrate would be broken for CWE. Many of our units only drawbacks are being short range infantry and not very durable. Infiltrate would ignore that 70% of the time. Other units have obscene movement, but if you let an Aspect Host get everything into optimal range of it's optimal target, it kills anything.