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... Space Marine, Eldar, AdMech can all take something like that, and i am sure tyranids will get something similiar.

My main armies are DarkAngels and ImperialGuard. I actually never faced an army with that rule (luckily people at my flgs tend to use ultramarine tactics when their space marines are painted blue...).

Still I am curious how to deal with those armies.

My DAs would propably not notice it that much (4+ rerollabe thanks to azrael is still not bad, terminators want to be in melee anyway, and bikes are mobile enough to dont care).

But for IG -1 to hit could really hurt, as the army will basically deal -16,66% less hurt. Using a quadruple-heavy-flamer hellhammer to go "melee" could be a possibility, but guardsmen are basically dead if they're within charge range, while most tanks just suck in melee, and cant shoot if they disengage. So closing in isn't an option...


How do you fight against those armies? Just ignore their buff and go on as usual? I really dont want to change the whole army setup when i am facing one of those armies :(

Going from 4+ to 5+ is actually a 33,33% loss in firepower.

Infantry + No Movement + Take Aim = re-roll all missed Hits. It can help a lot. Don’t forget that re-rolls hapen before the modifiers, so 4s will turn into misses and you don’t get to re-roll them.

Hellhound Inferno Cannon is 16” 2D6 auto hits.

Smite. Primaris Psykers are 41 points, I think.

Grinding Advance. LRBT get 2D6 shots on the battle cannon, if they move < 1/2 movement characteristic. Re-roll 1s if they don’t move at all.

I've never been on the receiving end of one of those armies, but when I run Chaos Marines I usually run Alpha Legion (which is one of those). One of my usual opponents likes to run a Genestealer Cult army, and while his melee units don't care, it really screws with his Sentinels/Russes/Goliaths. Ultimately I think closing the distance is perhaps the best option, but of course for Astra Militarum this is not a good idea at all. Do they have a good source of rerolls (I'm not up on the current state of the AM codex other than its reputation that it is OP, which I don't believe)?

Re-rolls actually don't help here. I mean, obviously re-rolling to hit means that you hit more often, but there's no relative advantage against hit modifiers just because you don't get to re-roll your would-have-been hits.

That is, regular BS4+ is 33% worse against -1 to hit. Likewise, BS4+ re-rolling misses is 33% worse against -1 to hit.

I think the answer for BS4+ or worse armies is to get around the rule, or else bring something with better BS. Anything that auto-hits and anything that wants to be within 12" anyway doesn't care. So Smite and deep-strikers are pretty good. Or you just bring Tank Commanders.

Maybe Veterans would be a good choice here? Or Scions?

Bring short range units; melee units, or units that can operate within 12" (rapid fire weapons, etc).

Welcome to the -X to hit club; Orks have been here since the beginning of the edition thanks to fliers.

Adapt, improvise, overcome, WAAAGH!

A stormlord would actually be an excellent add, especially Vostroyan. Vostroyan gives +1 to hit, otherwise you can run up to 8 HF on the chassis, and your tank CAN fall back from combat and shoot. In addition, it can deliver your fragile units into that crucial 12" range. Flamer/Melta/Plasma on SWT or Command squads will benefit a lot from disembarking from a very durable Stormlord that's rolling up and burning.

Also, any unit that Deep Strikes is valuable. Scions and Elysians will always be in range to shoot something without the -1.

Catachans could be effective here. Use Hellhounds and get to reroll the number of hits, same as with the Leman Russes. Get more attacks to help mitigate them being ineffective shots. I actually think this is a situation where running your chaff units up and getting them involved is a good choice too. The humble Lasgun can do work here. Get within 12" and FRFSRF into the enemy. Another option of course is to just not worry about it and take more mobile forces in your army. I have seen Rough Riders used effectively for this, but Hellhounds and Sentinels that you are probably taking anyway can work. Just play to the objectives and laugh because you can afford to bring more than them so you can still win by playing the mission. In my experience playing as Raptors (Raven Guard Tactics) and seeing other armies similar... they like to play gunlines. Outmaneuver them and make the -1 to hit not really matter so much. Target their own mobile things, or their answers to your mobility and let the dice fall as they will. I think you will come out on top more often than not.

I play orks, soi either loose 50% effectiveness or 100% if i advance and shoot. So, i do what i usually do anywayz. Run around, score points, lock the opponent in his deployment zone and wait till the game ends.

I just want to note that if Nids end up with a hive fleet tactic that grants the -1 at 12"+ that everyone can expect to see a lot more venomthropes and malanthropes on the table. It won't be a -1 your dealing with. It will be a -2.

Alaitoc already have the -ve to hit stacking covered. As long as conceal stays as is that is...

Wyldcarde wrote:
Alaitoc already have the -ve to hit stacking covered. As long as conceal stays as is that is...

It only applies to one unit (I don't think any of the warlock powers are auras anymore), but there is a 2 CP stratagem that gives an infantry or fly unit -1 to hit.

But yes, the Eldar codex seems to be about stacking hit modifiers. You can get to -4 (Warp Spiders or Shadow Spectres, Conceal, Alatoic, stratagem).

Out flanking with Tallarn units helps to close that -1 to hit gap. I've had success against Raptors and Alpha Legion out flanking with tanks and infantry support.

I had a test-battle (1500pts) with a space marine friend, and told him to use this rule and build an army around that.

My Basilisk and the non-Pask Leman Russ didnt do gak, but a Vendetta packed with 3 units of melta-commandsquads is just brutal. move 20 inch, models can disembark at any point during the flyers move. And they can move afterwards.

Enemy played 3 dreads, 1 normal shooty dread, 2 forgeworld-dreads. Both FW-dreads were down in my first turn (got lucky on the vendetta. it was within 12" but still gets -1 for having moved. Still 3 of 6 lascannons hit.)
Turn 2 vendetta goes in hover mode and and fires everything at the third dread (and wrecks him).

Meanwhile, I move basilisk/russes/infantry on objectives. At least they killed some of the remaining space marines
In the end, I won by playing the objectives and by bringing one big distraction.

Take 'template weapon(s)'

an expensive way to help solve the problem
Marauder Bomber or Marauder Destroyer and bomb the living daylights out of the enemy

Orks loose 50% of their dakka.