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I don't play eldar nor have i ever played against them (not many Xenos players where i live) but reading this forums i noticed people's big issue with eldar is their points being too high. Now reviews have come out that talk about the points reductions in the codex and I want to know if you eldar palyers are happy with gw balance?

Don't know them exactly yet so I can't say.

Very happy so far (from what i've seen) tho there are a couple units that extremely needed point changes that didnt.

WK is one of those units, who cares if you can get turn 1 charges or have a cheaper Starcannon when its 500pts+ that will almost never does it jobs well due to points cost of it.

Dbl Starcannon and Suncannon/Shield will be cheaper sure, buy like 15pts..... so instead of a 600pts unit its now 585pts....

I honestly would just take a Melee knight, Infiltrate it and use another CP to gain +2" charge for a turn 1 shock unit (if the stratagems work on him) doesnt really work if you go 2nd tho.

He really needed 80pts at least decrease.

My impression is that this is far better than the index, though not quite as well-balanced internally as the Guard codex.

I feel like many are still not great even though they got substantial cuts, because they were just that bad before. Like, compare 12 point Dire Avengers to what you can do with Battle Sisters, or minimum 23 point Wind Riders to Scout Bikers. It looks like Warlocks are still trash, and actually you have even less reason to take them now because their powers are no longer short-range auras and so you don't need someone on a jetbike to make use of them. I'm not sold on Banshees or Scorpions or Spiders yet but I'm keeping an open mind. The Wraithknight seems really unimpressive still.

But in many cases things seem pretty solid now when they weren't before. Rangers look about right. I'm excited to try out Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks and Fire Prisms and Spiritseers. I'm happy to take one unit of Guardians, though probably not more, because of the deep strike stratagem, even though they didn't go down in points. Crimson Hunters also look pretty scary. There's a lot more real variety now.

And then there are a couple of things that I'm pretty worried about. Hemlocks seem like the Eldar Shadowsword. I don't see how they're not just stupidly powerful. Wave Serpents were already very good and got better, though on the other hand they're no longer nearly as valuable as actual transports as they were (since footslogging seems a lot more viable), so perhaps this is fine. Dark Reapers are probably merely good in Craftworld armies now, but they were already Ynnari MVPs and they just got 25% cheaper. And this isn't really a codex points thing, but Alatoic Shadow Spectres are going to be terrifying.

From what I've seen Aspect Warriors are cheaper which is great for me.

Dionysodorus wrote:
but Alatoic Shadow Spectres are going to be terrifying.

That can DS 2 units for 3ap, and can move 7" after they shoot.

I was going to Order 5 anyways b.c i like the models, but now i'm making it 10....

As we've seen with almost all codices thus far, a lot of stuff is cheaper - and it pretty much needs to be. The biggest issue with Eldar at the moment is relatively light damage output/short range vs. being Toughness 3 in a game which has become increasingly lethal. Add to that expensive points (in the Index) and it made the Eldar army really tough to run if you didn't spam the handful of really decent units, basically narrowing the index down to 5-7 units worth taking.

I'm all about fluff and narrative and since I refused to spam Wave Serpents etc...I found it really damn tough to remain on the table with the Index.

Compare that to, say, dirt cheap Ork boys swinging 3-4 Strength 4 attacks in close combat and you can see where Eldar really start to struggle. Same goes for cheap, well-armed IG pouring out lots of cheap firepower.

I think the codex is going to help a lot, but it's still tough to run rather pricey Toughness 3 models in this version of 40K. I think the codex brings in a lot more speed and "Eldar trickery" which is really how Eldar should be operating. Fast, but fragile. I think we'll still struggle to really put the hurt on large 30+ model units (anti-horde doesn't seem really plausible with Eldar in most cases) but I think this will be a strong book. I haven't combined much of it in my head, so I don't know what filthy tricks will be sneaking into the meta or tournaments, but this is a plus with very few minuses.

This game is very heavy on shooty stuff and Alpha Strike --- so any tricks that can be used to avoid tabling in the first turn is a genuine boon. Eldar also had almost zero deep-strike ability (i.e. keeping your stuff off the table and out of harm's way). Warp Spiders and some stratagems will help with that. I look forward to the codex. The only thing which bugs me is the lack of info about fixing Warlocks, a tragically useless unit (weak, expensive, crap Smite, piss-poor close combat weapon...which is expensive).

It's a huge step in the right direction from the index. Falcons needed a hefty point drop, especially. That being said, there are a couple of other fixes that'd be good (the aforementioned wraithkninght cost being one of them, battle focus being another).

There are some pretty significant point drops. there were also units that didn't receive drops at all. Overall it's looking positive, but like I said with the IG, most of the stuff that got buffed were already bottom tier before, and in some cases I don't think they dropped the prices enough (Dire Avengers, I think, are sitting at 15 points, when they really should be at least 12).

We still need to have the codex in-hand and in some tourneys before we can tell if this really did help them out or if it's just lip service.

I an pretty sure Dire Avengers are 12 now

I heard they were at 15 points. My bad. Although I'd think they should be 10 with an Exarch Upgrade option.

Hoodwink wrote:
I an pretty sure Dire Avengers are 12 now

This is what I heard too. This would make them playable again.
Falcons will get a major pt drop. This would make them useful as gunboats.

Avengers are definitely 12 now. 8+4.

So half as many again as a guardian, which is the ratio they have been for quite some time, unless guardians have also reduced by a point or two, which is possible unless anyone has seen or confirmed otherwise

Guardians did not get a price drop - though I'm not sure about the platform. Most heavy weapons got a small drop or tweak, so overall it might be a little less.

Rangers are now 12 points, no?

Did the falcon get a cut?

pismakron wrote:
Rangers are now 12 points, no?

Did the falcon get a cut?

My buddy said that the Falcon gets a -50 pts drop.

Do we know yet how abilities are priced where they have separate points listed in the points section, such as Hemlock with Spirit Stones. I really wanna know how many points total I am having to pay for these fellas

Drake003 wrote:
Do we know yet how abilities are priced where they have separate points listed in the points section, such as Hemlock with Spirit Stones. I really wanna know how many points total I am having to pay for these fellas

I've heard there's been no change in how these are worded. The confusion may well remain.

A lot of units that needed massive points drops actually got them, such as Falcons (-49), Rangers (-8) and the Vauls Batteries (-40 ish I think).
Avengers and Aspects all got drops too, of between 2 and 6 points per model. All needed, and are now probably about right. Maybe still more expensive than Imperial equivalents, but Eldar always were and always will be.

Weapons got dropped a bunch too, which were also needed. Don't know all these yet but Starcannons are half price, and Scatter lasers are like 30% cheaper. You might actually start seeing weapons used that aren't Shuriken Cannons!

The mysteries are the units that didn't get a reduction. Wraithknight still as expensive as Imperial Knights is a weird one, when they're flat out worse. Traits *might* help with this, it'll take some playtesting to find out.
Also Warlocks... are basically the same. Their weapons are cheaper, which is good, but their rules and stats are the same. So for 10 points less than a Spiritseer (a proper psyker with 4 wounds), you get... a terrible psyker, with only 2 wounds. It's really no contest. Warlocks should be about 20 points. They might find use on jetbikes though.

So yeh, other than a couple of outliers, the new codex points are pretty good. There is a lot more units in the "playable" category now for sure, and some more units in the "good" category. Only Knights and Warlocks (and maybe the Phoenix Lords) stand out as being the bad apples.

Overall pretty exciting!

Ok, so, i've made a list of all the points and unit changes that i've seen so far from reviews. I may have missed some things/got them slightly wrong, due to some of the pages on youtube being a bit blurry or shiny.

Some things to note! Random Sunburst grenades are now gone, and plasma grenades are back! (same profile). Autarchs can no longer take Banshee masks or Mandiblasters like before. Only the Autarch with wings has Mandiblasters as a fixed option.

All changes are for the basic loadout listed against the datasheet vs the same cost from the index.

HQs.
• Eldrad: -30 points.
• Yriel: -4 points.
• Avatar: no change.
• Asurman : no change.
• Baharroth: -10 points. Sword now +1 str and -3 ap.
• Fuegan: -10 points. Melta bomb range now 4”.
• Jain Zar: -6 points. Sword +2 str. Cry of Unending War and Banshee Mask swapped round. Acrobatic can now advance and charge with the +3” to both.
• Karandras: -18 points.
• Maugan Ra: -19 points.
• Illic: -8 points. Sniper now fixed 3 dmg and still does mortal wounds on a 6.
• Autarch: +6 points. Fixed Weapon Loadout. Now has a Star Glaive and grenades only.
• Autarch Wings: no change. Fixed loadout. Fusion Pistol, power sword, mandiblasters.
• Autarch on Bike: -4 points. Can change power sword for laser lance or fusion gun. No other options.
• Farseer: -15 points (when using Singing Spear). -13 for witchblade.
• Farseer Bike: -38 points (when using Singing Spear). -13 for witchblade.
• Warlock Con: -14 points.
• Bike Con: -44 points.
• Warlock: -2 points.
• Warlock Bike: -17 points.
• Spiritseer: -21 points.

Troops.
• Guardians: No change.
• Storm G: No change.
• Rangers : -40 points.
• Dire Avengers: -25 points. (Exarch Weapons no changes).

Elite.
• Banshees: -15 points. Executioner -9 points, +1 str and no penalty to hit. Mirrorswords -1point. No more Triskele option.
• Scorpions: -25 points. Claw -8 points, no penalty to hit. Biting Blade -4 points. No Chainsabre option.
• Fire Dragons: No change. Fire Pike – 2 points.
• Wraithguard: No change. T6, now 1d6 roll per shot instead of 1d6 for all.
• Wraithblade: No change. Axe shield combo -35 points.

Fast Attack.
• Windriders: -21 points.
• Hawks: -20 points. Lasblaster now assault 4. No Sunrifle option.
• Spiders: -20 points. Unit can now Deepstrike, but have to roll 2d6 and on double 1, 1 model dies. No Spinneret rifle option.
• Spears: -36 points. Star lance -2 points. Paragon blade -4 points.
• Vyper: -21 points. Now has the Biker keyword.

Heavy.
• Reapers: -27 points. Tempest launcher -11 points.
• Support Battery: -47 points. Now 5 wounds. Vibro +10 points, d3 shots, flat 2 damage. If a unit is damaged by it, they can’t advance unless they can fly. Dcannon -5 points. Str 12, does not need LoS. Shadow Weaver +4 points.
• Falcon: -56 points.
• Fire Prism: -8 points. Now has the "grinding advance" style rule.
• Spinner: -25 points.
• Walkers: -17 points. Can now outflank.
• Wraithlord: No change. Now T8 and 4 attacks.

Transport.
• Serpent: -12 points.

Flyer.
• Hunter: -23 points.
• Exarch: -48 points.
• Hemlock: -11 points. Weapon str 12. Mindshock pod now -2Ld. Can only cast the 2nd power in each Runes of Battle entry.

LoW.
• Wraithknight: No Change. Sword + shield combo -35 points. Wraithcannons now str 16. Suncannon flat 2 dmg.

Weapons.
• Scatter Laser: -5 points.
• Shuriken Cannon: -2 points.
• Starcannon: -15 points.
• Twin Scatter: -13 points.
• Twin Cannon: -7 points.
• Twin Star: -32 points.
• Twin Catapult: -5 points.
• Laser Lance: -1 point.
• Chainsword: -1 point.

Vehicle Equipment.
• No changes to any pieces of equipment.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cream Tea wrote:

Drake003 wrote:
Do we know yet how abilities are priced where they have separate points listed in the points section, such as Hemlock with Spirit Stones. I really wanna know how many points total I am having to pay for these fellas

I've heard there's been no change in how these are worded. The confusion may well remain.

it was FAQd a while ago i believe. If the item is listed in the abilities section and has a points cost, you have to pay the points cost as you would normally.

Kdash wrote:


it was FAQd a while ago i believe. If the item is listed in the abilities section and has a points cost, you have to pay the points cost as you would normally.

This was FAQ'd for a specific character/army, in one of the FAQ's, but was never made universal. So it doesn't effect any of the other armies, until they either add the rule to all the FAQ's or make the rule universal.

That summary doesn't make sense.

Rangers are not -20 points per model, for example.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That summary doesn't make sense.

Rangers are not -20 points per model, for example.

...Where does he say they are? He says they're -40 points per minumum unit. Which is 5 Models. Which is 8 points per model.

Which is exactly what they were reduced by.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
That summary doesn't make sense.

Rangers are not -20 points per model, for example.

The differences are for the full basic units. I did it this way to ensure i didn't cause any issues with posting point values for everything here. Previously rangers were 100 points, now they are 60 points, hence the -40.

Are star cannons still D3 shots and wounds, I presume so given the points cost.

hobojebus wrote:
Are star cannons still D3 shots and wounds, I presume so given the points cost.

yes but Ive seen it posted that they are 15 points now instead of 30

 admironheart wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Are star cannons still D3 shots and wounds, I presume so given the points cost.

yes but Ive seen it posted that they are 15 points now instead of 30

D3 shots? Pretty sure they are 2 shots aren't they? D3 damage though.

They're Heavy 2, d3 damage.

Do we know if Twin catapults are 0 cost or do we have to pay extra for them, for things like Wind Riders and Shining Spears etc..?