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 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You get 4 warlocks for every 3 spirit seers. The main drawback is in durability but in character form warlocks are immune to enemy shooting anyways.

What they aren't immune to, as has been pointed out and ignored by you already, is Perils. Which will not only be ignored by a Spiritseer and kill a Warlock, but also kill whatever that Warlock is standing next to.

Nah I get that - Ultimately I will pick a spirit seer every time over a warlock. It's just some strategies might only have the points available for 3 warlocks not 3 spirit seers.

I really hope Warlocks get an FAQ at some point...they're simply terrible. Now I need to buy and convert a bunch of Warlocks into Spiritseers (sigh).

 Elbows wrote:
I really hope Warlocks get an FAQ at some point...they're simply terrible. Now I need to buy and convert a bunch of Warlocks into Spiritseers (sigh).

nah - warlocks and spirit seers are basically interchangeable model wise IMO.

If a unit is killed by perils, they blow up and hurt everyone near them.

 AspinTheBlack wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You get 4 warlocks for every 3 spirit seers. The main drawback is in durability but in character form warlocks are immune to enemy shooting anyways.

What they aren't immune to, as has been pointed out and ignored by you already, is Perils. Which will not only be ignored by a Spiritseer and kill a Warlock, but also kill whatever that Warlock is standing next to.

I think Mortal wounds only effect the unit and can not spill over into another unit.

This is true. But if the Warlock dies to Perils (which it will), he explodes and deals wounds to anything nearby.

Used 2 warlocks today....just couldn't find the points to upgrade to spiritseers (I did have one in my list) so that can happen. Did not perils in the game but was cautious where I placed them.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I really hope Warlocks get an FAQ at some point...they're simply terrible. Now I need to buy and convert a bunch of Warlocks into Spiritseers (sigh).

nah - warlocks and spirit seers are basically interchangeable model wise IMO.

Eh, they look different and have different wargear...so I'll be modeling them appropriately.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
[spoiler] I've got this pretty much refined down with my Alaitoc army (I was Alaitoc before the codex too, my 20 Guardians are all converted lol)

Webway strike the Guardians for 1CP, then have a Shiftshroud relic Warlord Farseer (Alaitoc relic) pop up in support of them. Farseer has Guide and Fortune for casting on the Guardians, as well as the Alaitoc Puritanical Leader Warlord Trait, giving the Guardians autopass on morale.

Whole setup only costs 1CP and the Farseer and Guardians themselves are only 290 odd points for the package.

can you give 2 relics to the same character?

You could take the Asuraman psychic power instead of guide for the same effect....then deep strike in some warp spiders and swooping hawks to give them all the same buff.

 admironheart wrote:
can you give 2 relics to the same character?

No

 wuestenfux wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Not the ''normal flamer'', but e.g. the heavy incinerator with 12'' range.

lol, dude, it took me a few minutes of searching to figure out what units can even take a heavy incinerator. I totally thought you'd be talking about Scions, or heavy weapon teams, or something else cheap and spammable that would be a decent unit to throw at cheapo rangers in cover.

Freaking. Nemesis. Dreadknights.

If the opponent decides to send his 250 point + dreadknight against a 60 point unit of Rangers, then those rangers have done their job. Especially as, while the dreadknight is messing around burning small units of Rangers, the Eldar player will completely destroy it in one turn with Fire Prisms, or War Walkers, or Vypers, or anything else that the opponent should be focussing on more than Rangers.

Also, while we are at it, I don't really get your point... is there any 60-point troops choice in the ENTIRE GAME that won't die easily to a Dreadknight with dual heavy incinerators? I mean yeh, concscripts I guess, because you have like 20 of them.

Dont take it too seriously.
There are also situations in which fast moving units with flamers can reach the enemy front ranks and then fry some Rangers.
Do you want an example? Assault Marines can have flamers.

I'm curious when the last time you saw Assault Marines with Flamers is. For me that was when you had the free Drop Pod.

I actually really like Warlocks.

Played a game yesterday with 3, each with Quicken, Conceal and protect respectively.

Having them that way meant that in any given turn I could prioritise the power I needed most and just use Seer Council Stratagem on them for the +1 to cast. Made a difference. You can’t do that with Spirit Seers.

Most of the time their increased Smite is irrelevant as you are only normally using their RoB powers anyway. And double 1s and double 6s are too infrequent to prevent their use. Just be careful on how you position them and keep a CP handy in case.

I don’t bother taking Spirit Seers as I value the 10pts and use of Seer Council more than the extra 2 wounds.

About the Conclave of Warlocks....with a big unit you can cast 3 times per round. Smite and 2 powers. Is it possible to just cast smite 3 times or must you do each power only once???

 admironheart wrote:
About the Conclave of Warlocks....with a big unit you can cast 3 times per round. Smite and 2 powers. Is it possible to just cast smite 3 times or must you do each power only once???

The Conclave unit is a psyker, there just happens to be more than one model in the unit. They can only attempt to manifest each power once each turn.

 Cream Tea wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
About the Conclave of Warlocks....with a big unit you can cast 3 times per round. Smite and 2 powers. Is it possible to just cast smite 3 times or must you do each power only once???

The Conclave unit is a psyker, there just happens to be more than one model in the unit. They can only attempt to manifest each power once each turn.

Isn't Smite excluded from the "only once per turn" rule?

Niiru wrote:

 Cream Tea wrote:

 admironheart wrote:
About the Conclave of Warlocks....with a big unit you can cast 3 times per round. Smite and 2 powers. Is it possible to just cast smite 3 times or must you do each power only once???

The Conclave unit is a psyker, there just happens to be more than one model in the unit. They can only attempt to manifest each power once each turn.

Isn't Smite excluded from the "only once per turn" rule?

Yes and no. There are two once per turn restrictions, one in the general psyker rules and one for matched play. Smite is only exempt from Psychic Focus, the matched play specific rule.

My maths could be off here but I think the following is correct:

Chance of a Warlock exploding from a psy test: 3.7%

Chance of warlock exploding with a CP reroll: 0.6%

A gambling man can save himself 10pts per psyker.

But there are so many sexier things to spend CP on!

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
My maths could be off here but I think the following is correct:

Chance of a Warlock exploding from a psy test: 3.7%

Chance of warlock exploding with a CP reroll: 0.6%

A gambling man can save himself 10pts per psyker.

For one Warlock, yeah. This might make sense, for access to the Seer Council stratagem if nothing else. It gets a lot riskier with multiple Warlocks, and you're also risking not being able to use a CP to make sure that a power goes off. Like, with three Warlocks you have a ~10% chance each turn that one of them explodes, barring re-rolls. And what happens if your first Warlock rolls a 5 and a 1 for Quicken? Do you use a CP to re-roll the 1, even though you've got more Warlocks coming up? The Warlocks are also much more vulnerable to snipers and weird moves like Orbital Bombardment.

Sexy indeed. Its only a 1/18 chance per cast that you are faced with the decision to spend a CP or not. I wouldn't save CP if I needed the reroll earlier in the phase.

I would take 2 Spiritseers for Protect and Quicken then 2 warlocks for Enhance and Empower. The warlocks are acceptable losses if they pop so long as I keep them away from other units.

I run 3 Warlocks as standard, one for each of Protect, Conceal and Quicken.

I don’t know from turn to turn which one will be the most important, so having them all as Warlocks means in any given turn I can prioritise the use of Seer Council Stratagem accordingly.

If any of those 3 were a Spirit Seer, they would not have that option for the +1 to cast that key power that turn. I almost always use the Stratagem every turn to ensure I get my Farseers powers off, as 7s are a lot better to get to with the +1.

Tried Spirit Seers but not worth it imho, that’s lack of Seer Council optIon and net 30pts I would lose elsewhere in my list.

Compare Warlock to Malefic Lord - it is vastly overpriced for what it provides.

That being said... it is what we got, and they provide some really good buffs.

At least for 10 points you get some rigidity vs Perils AND a normal Smite, I believe.

Destructor is so bad for the risk...

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Compare Warlock to Malefic Lord - it is vastly overpriced for what it provides.

That being said... it is what we got, and they provide some really good buffs.

At least for 10 points you get some rigidity vs Perils AND a normal Smite, I believe.

Destructor is so bad for the risk...

You compared Warlocks to a broken unit? /shrug

DCannon4Life wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Compare Warlock to Malefic Lord - it is vastly overpriced for what it provides.

That being said... it is what we got, and they provide some really good buffs.

At least for 10 points you get some rigidity vs Perils AND a normal Smite, I believe.

Destructor is so bad for the risk...

You compared Warlocks to a broken unit? /shrug

It was too easy

Are Malefic Lords too good? Absolutely. They probably need to be in the 50+ point range.

Are Warlocks bad? Absolutely. Give them two wounds, and they're fine. That would mean all Spiritseers would provide is their horrible Wraith Sight trait and normal Smite for 10 points.

That would probably make Conclaves a lot better, too.

Wait, don't warlocks have 3 wounds in their character version?

Also, Malefic Lords and Primaris Pskyers are about the same.

The Malefic Lord has +1 save, and +1 toughness, and Warp Possession. The Primaris Psyker has +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Ballistic Skill, and It's For Your Own Good, as well as a laspistol.

The Malefic Lord is 2 points more expensive than the Primaris Psyker, if you strip away their wargear.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wait, don't warlocks have 3 wounds in their character version?

Also, Malefic Lords and Primaris Pskyers are about the same.

The Malefic Lord has +1 save, and +1 toughness, and Warp Possession. The Primaris Psyker has +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Ballistic Skill, and It's For Your Own Good, as well as a laspistol.

The Malefic Lord is 2 points more expensive than the Primaris Psyker, if you strip away their wargear.

Warlocks have 2 wounds in both Conclave and solo configs. You can throw them on a Skyrunner to get 3.

Giving them 2 extra wounds would put them on par with those other guys, but they'd have the reduced stats for being Eldar.

They should cost 25 points and 20 in the conclave I think. The bike upgrade should only be 20 points too - not the current 35 that it is.

 Xenomancers wrote:
They should cost 25 points and 20 in the conclave I think. The bike upgrade should only be 20 points too - not the current 35 that it is.

^^^This, so much this. I am fine with them only having 2 wounds (3 on a Skyrunner) as long as the points make sense for it.
Alternatively, I would be happy with Warlocks at their current cost if they had 3 wounds (4 on Skyrunner) and Destructor was only half range, but still D3 mortal wounds.

The fact is, Warlocks could have been good choices equal to Spiritseers, but GW chose to over nerf them for no reason.

-

Just saw my first game with new Eldar. It was 2v2, Adepticon TT rules, my side GK/SM against two Eldar lists.

We barely squeezed out the win on objectives only because we called the game early at end of 3rd because one of the other guys needed to leave. The GK player was basically tabled by then, and I was solidly down roughly half my marines by the end of it.

20 rangers managed to kill my lieutenant across 3 turns. Actually, it was more like 20 rangers, 15 rangers, 6 rangers, cause I was desperately poking holes in them to try to stop them. They might not have caused a TON of damage, but they're pretty hard to move off an objective.

Biggest thing that caught us both off guard was the GK guy getting his GMDK taken down to one wound (due to lucky saves, as we determined later) from dark reapers during our turn because of a stratagem that gives a squad of eldar 7th ed interceptor in reaction to someone deep striking. We talk about bad game design a lot, and I feel like none of us really know what the feth we're talking about when we do that, but it does seem like a poor choice to give one army the ability to act entirely out of turn like that. And to be fair, we didn't know eldar. Totes our fault in that regard. He might have done something else with that DK if we knew it was a possibility. At the same time, there's not a lot else you can do with a DK other than deep strike it. The ability strikes me somewhat as a modern warp quake for denial purposes. Crazy good, at worst. At least it can only be used once per turn, for what little that's worth.

Rending shuriken weapons are still incredibly powerful. I'm fantasizing about an army of guardians just marching across a table edge, murdering literally everything when they get to the opponent. I mean, why not?

The thing that really sucked the air out of the room though was the Warp Spiders on the last turn though. Flickerjump, Fieldcraft, and Lightning Fast Reflexes really should not stack. Alternatively, we call excitedly admit that Invisibility is back and better than ever, in spite of being one of the reasons 7th was so bad.

Sadly, I think that was the final nail in the coffin for 8th for me though. Not for myself. I, at least, have a couple of decently strong codexes to work with, but that kind of killed it for at least half of the guys I normally play with.

I miss 5th edition. :(

Space Marine Codex page 198

The Stratagem "Auspex Scan" allows you to shoot deep strikers as well.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Space Marine Codex page 198

The Stratagem "Auspex Scan" allows you to shoot deep strikers as well.

I had missed that one, so I guess that out of turn reactions aren't completely unheard of.

Wow though. The difference between those powers is staggering. I don't know if I've seen a situation where I could have used that and would actually want to.