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I'm a little confused about keywords. I'm a little green when it come to 40k so bare with me lol I'm currently trying to make a Death Guard army list and from my "extensive" internet research I've found a lot of people saying Death Guard cannot take havocs.

My confusion comes from the fact that chaos havocs have the <legion> keyword, and I was under the impression that you could swap that with any legion keyword you wanted (Thousand Sons, Death Guard, etc.). So can Death Guard armies take havocs and still be battleforged? Or can you only use what's in the codex or something like that? And how does that work with the FW chaos armor codex? Can the Death Guard not take anything from that?

Also, people seemed to be referencing the chaos index, which had an army restriction list for the Death Guard, and that was the main basis for why they can't take havocs. I can't seem to find that restriction list in the Death Guard codex. Does that mean that the index rule still applies? Or does the codex void the index?

Thanks in advance for helping me out!

You can't run Death Guard Havocs, at least in the way you're wanting, as they're not in the Codex.

You can, however, run Havocs as part of a Codex: CSM detachment that you gave keyword: Death Guard to...but it won't be the same thing and will not get the same benefits as Codex: Death Guard.

Ah, okay. That makes sense! What's the point in having interchangeable keywords then if you don't get any benefit from it? Seems kinda dumb to me lol Does that mean you can't run FW as well?

 Bobobo123 wrote:
Ah, okay. That makes sense! What's the point in having interchangeable keywords then if you don't get any benefit from it? Seems kinda dumb to me lol Does that mean you can't run FW as well?

So, the reason for having interchangeable keywords is for things like C: Space Marines or CSM or Guard or T'au or Eldar or Dark Eldar, etc--books where you've got multiple subfactions(Black Legion, Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Night Lords, etc) that can be represented.

Armies that have been spun out into monofaction books(Death Guard, Thousand Sons, the Angels, Space Wolves and anything else that might get a similar treatment later) are going to have a single shared keyword but in many instances likely will have a bit more interesting or unique bonuses.

 Bobobo123 wrote:
Ah, okay. That makes sense! What's the point in having interchangeable keywords then if you don't get any benefit from it? Seems kinda dumb to me lol Does that mean you can't run FW as well?

The keywords are interchangable, but you are specifically not allowed to use the Codex Chaos units for Death Guard or Thousand sons.

The FW units have been clarified as all available to TS/DG with the exception of Hellwrights and Rapiers.

Is not being allowed to use Codex Chaos units written somewhere? Or is that just a rule every happens to know about? I think I'm just caught up in the whole index restriction list and then no restriction list in the codex. If I'm getting it right though, once a specific subfaction has it's own codex it can only use units in that codex, except for FW models.

Thanks btw!

 Bobobo123 wrote:
Is not being allowed to use Codex Chaos units written somewhere? Or is that just a rule every happens to know about? I think I'm just caught up in the whole index restriction list and then no restriction list in the codex. If I'm getting it right though, once a specific subfaction has it's own codex it can only use units in that codex, except for FW models.

Thanks btw!

That's literally the case.
It's always been the case.

The Indexes were released at the drop of 8th edition as a way to rapidly put rules out for every faction. Codices were being worked on and coming out in a staggered formation.

Thanks for clearing that up!

The codex thing is not correct.

The rule you are looking for is the "<Legion>" rule on page 116 of the chaos space marine codex.

Fourth paragraph in that rule.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You can't run Death Guard Havocs, at least in the way you're wanting, as they're not in the Codex.

You can, however, run Havocs as part of a Codex: CSM detachment that you gave keyword: Death Guard to...but it won't be the same thing and will not get the same benefits as Codex: Death Guard.

This is not correct. As Kaime wrote, the CSM codex explicitly excludes Thousand Sons and DG to be taken for the LEGION keyword for CSM.

You can do a battleforged army under the Chaos keyword in one detachment, you'll miss DG/CSM warlord traits, relics and Legion rules though. However, you can throw anything Chaos in there, Daemons, TS, DG, CSM, Forgeworld, Renegades & Heretics.
You can also do a battleforged army with a DG detachment and another CSM detachment, where you can take your Nurgle-Havocs. That way you'll have the best of both worlds - warlord traits, stratagems, relics from both codizes and Legion rules for the respective detachment.

 Bobobo123 wrote:
Is not being allowed to use Codex Chaos units written somewhere? Or is that just a rule every happens to know about?

P156 of Codex: Chaos Space Marines details how the <legion> keyword thing works - most importantly, there's a paragraph that states "Note that the Death Guard and Thousand Sons Legions deviate significantly in terms of organisation and cannot make use of any of the rules of abilities listed in this section; instead they have bespoke rules and abilities detailed in their own codexes".

So you can't replace <legion> with "Death Guard".

You COULD take a detachment from the Death Guard codex and a detachment from the CSM Codex however - they wouldn't share special rules across each other, but you could have units from Codex CSM in your army, provided they fit into a detachment. Help the theme by giving them all Mark of Nurgle and calling them a renegade chapter that has allied with the Death Guard as part of a shared love of Nurgle?