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It´s for tournaments. Opinions??




Eldar Craftworlds : Alaitoc Army

Battalion (+3 CP):
Farseer, Sdg, Wings of Faoulchú, 100
Illic, 80
6 Striking Scorpions, Scorpion Chainsword, 84
3 x 5 Rangers, 60
3 x 1 Wave Serpent, Full Shuriken, 134

Spearhead (+1 CP):
Maugan, 140
3 x 5 Death Reapers, Exarch with aeldari launcher, 138

Air Wing (+1 CP):
3 x 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter, 200

Total: 2000
CP: 8

Well, I think you need more anti-tank.
Imagine an AM list with Baneblade and several Leman Russes.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think you need more anti-tank.
Imagine an AM list with Baneblade and several Leman Russes.

3 Hemlocks and 15 Dark Reapers re-rolling 1's is a fair bit of anti-tank. Two tanks should die first turn. Maybe three.

 dahayden wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I think you need more anti-tank.
Imagine an AM list with Baneblade and several Leman Russes.

3 Hemlocks and 15 Dark Reapers re-rolling 1's is a fair bit of anti-tank. Two tanks should die first turn. Maybe three.

15 DRs = with rerolls 1s, yield 13 hits. S8 will yield:

vs. T7> 5 or 6 wounds. At -2, the vehicle will save 2. 4 wounds at 3 wounds each ... one dead 12 W or less tank.
vs. T8< 4 wounds, yields a fer sure kill.

6 Heavy D-scythes - doing an average of 1.5 wounds each, so 9. 6 wound. 12 points of damage no save.

Good call, dahayden, 2 tanks with reasonable assuredness.

Problem is, squads of 5 squish too easily, even in cover.
@ElAntiguoGuardián
I dunno which tourney scene you're joining, but to avoid extra Kill Points, it'd be better to glom the squads together as a 7 and 8, or 9 and 6, pending ITC missions scenarios or your local scene.

The statistic is not bad for you.
But the DRs will be on top of the enemy's target priority schedule.
If the enemy's Leman Russes target them, you will loose some - maybe a significant number.

Points on the Hemlocks are wrong. Got to buy those Spirit Stones. They are not optional.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Points on the Hemlocks are wrong. Got to buy those Spirit Stones. They are not optional.

There was a consensus on the CWE tactica thread that the stones are counted as an "ability", so until they are inevitably FAQ'd, it's still 200.

But if you think about points for matched play in general.

A model comes with xyz, but it's points are listed without taking into account wargear so you still have to pay the point cost of xyz.

So those Spirit stones cost.

I don't have the codex yet, but Index wise, the Hemlock is 211 +10 for spirit stones just like any other models point costs surely.

Hemlock dropped to 200 points (+Equipment) in the Codex.

Ability argument is strange. Why would they be an ability any more or less than a Stormshield or Meltabomb on a Space Marine Captain are "an ability"?

1/12 missions of our tournaments are going to be KP. But I can put 2 units of reapers togheter... I split them because of the panics.

About the hemlocks... The spirit stones are not include as equip, but if I need to pay for it, i can change the aeldary into R.L., drop 1 scorpion, change maugan for other character... No structural changes.

Opinions about this structure of list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The statistic is not bad for you.
But the DRs will be on top of the enemy's target priority schedule.
If the enemy's Leman Russes target them, you will loose some - maybe a significant number.

They can start on the Serpents to avoid that shoots.

Triple Hemlocks are great and the Dark Reapers and Maugan Ra should work extremely well.

I discovered that Executioner and Smite are great powers for the Farseer. It is a good amount of additional Mortal Wounds.

Not keen on the Scorpions, but I admit I have no experience with them in 8th edition.

I like the list and think it has a lot of tools For a three round event easily.

Drop the hemlocks - switch to crimson hunters. They are now better than hemlocks. Their damage is comparable BUT they are 160 compared to 200 and they can actaully maintain their -2 to hit for being aliotic. For a hemlock to engage - they are already in the threat zone to have their trait completely ignored. Hunters can just fly around in their deployment zone. Take a few warlocks or spirit seers with the saved points. They will help keep your reapers in action.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Drop the hemlocks - switch to crimson hunters. They are now better than hemlocks. Their damage is comparable BUT they are 160 compared to 200 and they can actaully maintain their -2 to hit for being aliotic. For a hemlock to engage - they are already in the threat zone to have their trait completely ignored. Hunters can just fly around in their deployment zone. Take a few warlocks or spirit seers with the saved points. They will help keep your reapers in action.

While I wouldn't say this is "bad" advise, I doubt many players would agree with it. Most list I have seen do 2 Hemlocks and 1 Crimson Hunter Exarch.
While the damage output is comparable, Hemlocks are Psykers and have Spirit stones, so they add way more to a list than Hunters ever could. Dt also doesn't lose any ability to hit as it gets damaged.
You should definitely take 1 Hunter (specifically an Exarch as it is 15pts more for re-roll 1's to hit), but I wouldn't drop the Hemlocks

About the Hemlocks Spirit stones: I wish they either put the stones in its equipment list (so we would know it cost points), or changed that name of the ability (so we would know it was part of the models cost). They same argument exists for the Autarch and Force Shields, but the Skyrunner Autarch has "Peerless Agility" instead of "Force Shields" like the Infantry Autarch. I feel like if they just changed the name of the ability, there would be no dispute.

-

Personally, I'm really enjoying hemlocks. Lots of damage output and the psyker side has been quite handy. If you can, try running a crimson hunter for a small friendly game and see if you enjoy it more. It's not an accurate test, but it should give you a vague idea of what you enjoy. Illic is an absolute weapon, I think he gets written off quite a bit.

I think the "fluffy" explanation is that the spirit stones are a part of the wraithfighter in a way that they're not on other vehicles. It's not just a plane, it's a psychic wraith construct piloted by a spirit seer, of which the spirit stones are integral. It's not like a fire prism, that can take a few spirit stones to get help from deceased elders for targetting, it's the core of the vehicle.

On a more practical note, my local group all run their hemlocks at 200 under the new codex, but we're venturing into YMDC territory here.

Well when it comes to the spirit stones they really need to answer this in a FAQ. It's an obvious miss print IMO. I'm pretty sure this codex was written and printed quite some time ago - otherwise they would have clarified in the codex with the amount of debate it was creating just from index players. They should pay for it. It's no different than any other vehicle. For now I am Okay with them being 200 points because it seems appropriate anyways. I just think the crimson hunter is better because it's more reliable. More reliably -2 to hit and more reliably getting 4 shots with big guns.

For me, this was answered on the last page of the Index 1 FAQ document – however, as it was in a specific index related document rather than listed in the overall one, I can see how people want to argue that it is “included” in the cost of the model.

Hopefully they will faq it, simply as a matter of housekeeping, but I’d expect most TOs and army building applications will take it as “needing to pay” for the spiritstones.


I too will be looking at running 2 Hemlocks and 1 Crimson Hunter Exarch. I feel the Hemlocks give me additional options with their powers, have auto hitting weapons and will usually benefit from the -2 in the first turn, if I don’t go first.

The Exarch however, will be able to maintain the -2 most of the time, but it is a little annoying that is suffers the -1 to hit, even though it can re-roll 1s. It is, a very nice back field, reliable damage source.

I think hemlocks are better run as ulthwe. Rolling 2 dice per wound irrespective of source is better if you are going to be in the teeth of the army.
Alaitoc helps with alphastrike but ulthwe helps all game long

eldritchstormer wrote:
I think hemlocks are better run as ulthwe. Rolling 2 dice per wound irrespective of source is better if you are going to be in the teeth of the army.
Alaitoc helps with alphastrike but ulthwe helps all game long

Sadly the Ulthwe attribute explicitly states ''If a model has a similar ability (e.g. the Hemlock Wraithfighter's Spirit Stones ability, or the Farseer's Ghosthelm ability) you can chose which ability to use when a model loses a wound, but you cannot use both''.

The only useful Craftworld Attribute for Hemlocks is Alaitoc, makes me feel less bad about running them as CW Alaitoc since all the others are straight up useless for Hemlocks.

With a lot of anti tank stuff being heavy, alaitoc on hemlocks isn’t as much of a non benefit. Park them at 13” and the weapons that are going to hurt it are likely either to have to stand still and shoot at -2 or move into 12” and still shoot at -2.

Kdash wrote:
For me, this was answered on the last page of the Index 1 FAQ document – however, as it was in a specific index related document rather than listed in the overall one, I can see how people want to argue that it is “included” in the cost of the model.

Hopefully they will faq it, simply as a matter of housekeeping, but I’d expect most TOs and army building applications will take it as “needing to pay” for the spiritstones.

I did a bit a research and came across the this, a direct response from GW/40k people addressing the elements of the "Spirit Stones" situation.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1851315258522438&id=1575682476085719

I think the operative wording here is "If it's an inherent ability on the model, no you don't. "