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I know this has been discussed elsewhere with regards to successors, and such, but for the life of me I cannot find a discussion that clearly denotes talking about what a "Space marine detachment" can actually include.

Here is my question:

I have a battalion, it includes 2 HQs of "Space Marine Codex Ultramarines", and 3 troop units of Index "Deathwatch":

Does this constitute a "space marine detachment", and therefore allow the Ultramarines in the detachment to use Space marine codex strategems? Obviously they will not get their chapter trait, as the detachment has units which are not ultramarines, and the deathwatch cannot use "space marine codex" strategems as they are an exclusion from the book, but since all units in the detachment have the "Adeptus Astartes" keyword, is it a space marine detachment?

Please help me clarify as this has been bugging the hell out of me for a while.

Thanks in advance

Page 194 of the codex.

It appears that Deathwatch do not count.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Page 194 of the codex.

It appears that Deathwatch do not count.

That is where it gets fuzzy for me, because they are mentioned as exclusions with regards to using the strategems, but do they count as part of a detachment to unlock them? It is just weird to me, because you could have a patrol with 1 hq and 1 troop, both ultras, and then now any other codex space marines in any other detachment can use the strategems from the book?

Yeah that's wierd but it's how it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I said, no they can't be in a detachment if you want to use it to unlock stratagems

Followup question: Does an Auxiliary detachment count for unlocking strategems? I can't find anything in the FAQs saying that it doesn't, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

You read it at the top of the codex section for stratagems

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yeah that's wierd but it's how it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I said, no they can't be in a detachment if you want to use it to unlock stratagems

It gets even wierder when you can include any detachment from any faction who has the IMPERIUM keyword in your army. For example you can have SM, AM, AdMech units and use the stratagems in their codexes for your whole army.

p5freak wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yeah that's wierd but it's how it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I said, no they can't be in a detachment if you want to use it to unlock stratagems

It gets even wierder when you can include any detachment from any faction who has the IMPERIUM keyword in your army. For example you can have SM, AM, AdMech units and use the stratagems in their codexes for your whole army.

That only works if the SM are in their own detachment, the AM are in their own detachment, and the AdMech are in their own detachment. A detachment must be purely made of one faction to get access to strategems. If that is the case, then all detachments have access to any strategems unlocked for the army.

And in short, a Space Marine Detachement, is a detachment in which every unit has the keyword Adeptus Astartes.

 Todosi wrote:

p5freak wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Yeah that's wierd but it's how it works.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as I said, no they can't be in a detachment if you want to use it to unlock stratagems

It gets even wierder when you can include any detachment from any faction who has the IMPERIUM keyword in your army. For example you can have SM, AM, AdMech units and use the stratagems in their codexes for your whole army.

That only works if the SM are in their own detachment, the AM are in their own detachment, and the AdMech are in their own detachment. A detachment must be purely made of one faction to get access to strategems. If that is the case, then all detachments have access to any strategems unlocked for the army.

And in short, a Space Marine Detachement, is a detachment in which every unit has the keyword Adeptus Astartes.

Captyn_Bob seems to be implying that that is not so, and only space marines chosen from the space marine codex can comprise a space marine detachment

 Todosi wrote:

That only works if the SM are in their own detachment, the AM are in their own detachment, and the AdMech are in their own detachment. A detachment must be purely made of one faction to get access to strategems. If that is the case, then all detachments have access to any strategems unlocked for the army.

Yes, of course.

From page 194 of the Codex:

SPACE MARINES UNITS
In the rules described in this section we often refer to ‘Space Marines units’. This is shorthand for any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that has one of the following Faction keywords: <CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS, RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines Detachment is therefore one which only includes units with one of these keywords.

Emphasis mine.

Deathwatch does not count, similar to Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves not counting. Fluff excuse being, they aren't Codex-adhering Chapters.