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Back for 8th trying out first new list with the new codex playing in a local league where we've agreed to 3 detachments no forgeworld models


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [53 PL, 973pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

+ HQ +

Asurmen [9 PL, 175pts]

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 150pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 120pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Avenger Shuriken Catapult

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 120pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Avenger Shuriken Catapult

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 120pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Avenger Shuriken Catapult

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 144pts]: 18x Guardian Defender

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 144pts]: 18x Guardian Defender

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [28 PL, 535pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host

+ HQ +

Avatar of Khaine [13 PL, 250pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [5 PL, 95pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Shining Spears [5 PL, 95pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Shining Spears [5 PL, 95pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [24 PL, 488pts] ++

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Warlock [2 PL, 35pts]: Witchblade

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 81pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper: 2x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 81pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper: 2x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 81pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper: 2x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

+ Flyer +

Hemlock Wraithfighter [10 PL, 210pts]: 3. Enhance/Drain, Spirit Stones

++ Total: [105 PL, 1996pts] ++

I think there was some discussion over avatar being the warlord if he can't then I will use eldrad and I believe he gets the Ulthwe warlord trait to get a CP on a 6. Otherwise it's the avatar warlord with an eye on distant events.

While 3 detachments is giving a lot of CPs, parceling the units to min size isn't too good, IMHO. 'Course, depending on how your local UK league is scoring missions, MSU might be good.

I think the DRs and S-Spears ought to be in 6 to 9 model units. Especially when the S-spears can WPP within assault range, be Quickened ... you'll want to have the psy-power pay off better on 1 unit that will have a lot more punch. 3 bikes won't.

With a few minor changes you could fit your list into a Brigade detachment which gives you a load more CP's to play around with, as you are pretty close to it already if you change some things around.

Number of points anyway if you are sticking with this list:

Guardians are a lot more durable if you buy a Heavy Weapon Platform for them, for the price of 2 Guardians -1 point you get just as many wounds and a 3+ save which you can use to take a few more hits on before getting to your Guardians, there is no reason not to drop some Guardians in each squad for these.

Give your Dire Avenger Exarchs double Avenger Catapult, twice the firepower for less than twice the cost as they can fire both at the same time and its only 4pts more per squad. Consider dropping more Guardians to find the points for these.

Tempest Launchers for your Dark Reaper Exarches, these provide a load more shots especially when you have 3. Remember you can fire the Tempest Launchers at other units to the Reaper Launchers if you need to.

The Avatar is not that great for his point cost, consider dropping him especially if forming a Brigade.

Asurmen possibly not that great too but you are getting the best use out of him with 3x10 man Dire Avenger squads.

In comparison a much better HQ choice would be Spiritseers or Warlocks as Runes of Battle is such a great discipline for creating deadly combinations within your army. The more Runes of Battle powers the better in any list.

Footslogging is a slow way to die.
I'd mount the DA in Serpents maybe replacing part of them by Fire Dragons.

Pretty certain the Avatar can be the Warlord. I can't recall why he could not.

I like the list quite a bit. I'd recommend taking Protect for the Warlock to beef up one of the Dire Avenger squads to a 3++. I see a lot of Invulnerable saves across your army and Fearless. Combined with the Ulthwe' trait, it appears deceptively resilient. I am betting a lot of opponents will not quite piece that together on the table top.

I don't really think you need the second block of Guardians. I see the merit of dropping both squads in via Webway Portal clear out screen units (and ensuring to stay within 12" of the Avatar!). But, I think one squad will be sufficient to clear chaff, which is what I think their main purpose will be utilized for. The reason for dropping one squad would be to pick up Maugan Ra. Giving re-roll '1' for Dark Reapers is pretty good when running multiple Reaper units. His 8 shots a turn is also fairly well rounded against various targets.

Hemlocks are great! However, I'm not sure you actually need just a single Hemlock. I found running them solo gets them killed on turn 1/2. You could drop him and then pick up Maugan Ra and a squad of Rangers.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Footslogging is a slow way to die.
I'd mount the DA in Serpents maybe replacing part of them by Fire Dragons.

Not everything needs to push up to the opponents face, you need units for stopping deep strikers and to provide 5+ overwatch to charging units is great too. Dire Avengers are great for playing defensively and acting as a defensive line to hold objectives and protect Dark Reapers. Don't really think he needs Fire Dragons in his list? But if he goes Brigade he could to fulfil part of his Elite requirements.

 Korlandril wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Footslogging is a slow way to die.
I'd mount the DA in Serpents maybe replacing part of them by Fire Dragons.

Not everything needs to push up to the opponents face, you need units for stopping deep strikers and to provide 5+ overwatch to charging units is great too. Dire Avengers are great for playing defensively and acting as a defensive line to hold objectives and protect Dark Reapers. Don't really think he needs Fire Dragons in his list? But if he goes Brigade he could to fulfil part of his Elite requirements.

@Wuestenfux:
You have been giving great advice for years, but like Korlandril,I disagree on this.

Footers have longer base movement, *and* advance & shoot. They're plenty fast to get where they need ... and there is Webway Strike.

The Wave S is an awesome unit, and its duties are going to be a visible threat of transporting WG or ... I dunno.

@groedius
On second look, are all those DAs and guardians under Ulthwe? Would not Bile-tan be the was to go with all those shuriken weapons?

Alright thanks guys and yeah they are under ulthwé however I do think that biel-tan could have it's merits for the shruiken weapons that's a good call.

If I make the smaller units into larger units with the Reapers and the Spears then I lose out on the CPs and the other Craftworld bonus.

Do the heavy weapons in guardian squads count as heavy or assault now ? I'm all honesty I wasn't sure what would fit best.

Without the Avatar keeping things fearless won't it be harder for my dores and guardians to stick around ?

The problem I find with a brigade is what I put in the elites slot. I wasn't really sure what would fit.

I only own a single Hemlock at the moment so I could look into swapping that out. Maugan Ra seems nice but is another special character too much ? If I dropped the Hemlock I can fit maugan Ra, the double Exarch weapons, the tempest launcher and a couple of weapon platforms.

groedius wrote:
Alright thanks guys and yeah they are under ulthwé however I do think that biel-tan could have it's merits for the shruiken weapons that's a good call.

If I make the smaller units into larger units with the Reapers and the Spears then I lose out on the CPs and the other Craftworld bonus.

Do the heavy weapons in guardian squads count as heavy or assault now ? I'm all honesty I wasn't sure what would fit best.

Without the Avatar keeping things fearless won't it be harder for my dores and guardians to stick around ?

The problem I find with a brigade is what I put in the elites slot. I wasn't really sure what would fit.

I only own a single Hemlock at the moment so I could look into swapping that out. Maugan Ra seems nice but is another special character too much ? If I dropped the Hemlock I can fit maugan Ra, the double Exarch weapons, the tempest launcher and a couple of weapon platforms.

Heavy weapons are still heavy weapons, but Shuriken cannons are assault so you can still advance and fire at full effect, they are also the cheapest option and the only option that are not heavy. Any shooting you get with them is bonus in addition to making the squad more tough.

The Avatar - 250pts is a lot just to stop losing a few models from morale here and there, better to take more units in my opinion.

With Elites you can go min Banshees and/or Scorpions as they have a price drop they are more points efficient now. You can keep Scorpions in reserve until an opportunity presents itself then deploy to hit some squishy infantry unit (Their preferred target due to Mandiblasters).

To put your list in a Brigade with making few changes as possible:

Brigade Detachment 1966pts

175pts - Asurmen
100pts - Farseer
35pts - Warlock

372pts - 3x 10xDire Avengers including Exarch with double Avenger Catapults
285pts - 3x 10xGuardian Defenders with Shuriken Cannon Weapon Platform

246pts - 3x 5xStriking Scorpions including Exarch with Scorpions Claw

285pts - 3x 3xShining Spear including Exarch with Star Lance

258pts - 3x 3xDark Reapers including Exarch with Tempest Launcher

210pts - Hemlock Wraithfighter

Swapped out Eldrad for a regular Farseer so you have more flexibility on which Craftworld you choose. There are a few points left over as this is a direct as possible port from your first list to a Brigade. Try out Asurmen and big squads of Dire Avengers and see how it goes but possibly it might be better to take off 5 DA's from each squad and have a HQ besides Asurmen. That way you are going to have more points to play around with, you could easily fit in another Hemlock that way too. I like Autarch's for my Warlord to get the chance to regain a CP after spending it, if you ran Ulthwe as well you could give him the trait for gaining even more CP at the start of each players turn. Another good Troop choice are Rangers, coupled with the Alaitoc Craftworld they are insanely durable for 60pts, a squad or two of these would serve you well.

 Brothererekose wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Footslogging is a slow way to die.
I'd mount the DA in Serpents maybe replacing part of them by Fire Dragons.

Not everything needs to push up to the opponents face, you need units for stopping deep strikers and to provide 5+ overwatch to charging units is great too. Dire Avengers are great for playing defensively and acting as a defensive line to hold objectives and protect Dark Reapers. Don't really think he needs Fire Dragons in his list? But if he goes Brigade he could to fulfil part of his Elite requirements.

@Wuestenfux:
You have been giving great advice for years, but like Korlandril,I disagree on this.

Footers have longer base movement, *and* advance & shoot. They're plenty fast to get where they need ... and there is Webway Strike.

The Wave S is an awesome unit, and its duties are going to be a visible threat of transporting WG or ... I dunno.

@groedius
On second look, are all those DAs and guardians under Ulthwe? Would not Bile-tan be the was to go with all those shuriken weapons?

Well, Fire Dragons are my answer to my constant fear (or security paranoia) about not having enough anti-tank or anti-MC. I never go out without two 5 men units of FDs in Serpents.
I've seen here an AM list at the 2000 pt level mainly with Baneblade, four Leman Russes, 3x30 Conscripts (before the FAQs).

The real problem with foot slogging is your drops will be high. The way I figure to get command points while still trying to reduce drop number is 2x5 man dire avengers in serpents. Dire avengers are little expensive but I think filling out a brigade or 2 batallions is worth over paying for them (they do fill troops for cheap and are better than rangers). Asurman I consider meh. 20 man guardian squads can get a 4++ save for 1 command point and don't require a 175 point tax for it. So I just consider that better.