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So with DA codex coming out any time now and with it Undoubtably the lion what’s your guess on where the chapters going to go? Will the lion honor Guillimans self proclaimed title as leader? And what will happen if the fallen come back and are forgiven and or punished? That’s kind of their whole stick. I want to start a small DA force but if the hunt is over it’s not as interesting to me.
Also fun poll question who will you follow if on the slim chance there is a split. Gulliman or the Lion?

Edit to change title/subject

I think we'll see the Wolf before we see the Lion.

Not convinced this will happen, but what I'd personally love:

Lion wakes up. Kicks his chapter's asses for the shenanigans they've pulled over the years. Brings the 'loyal' fallen including Cypher back in to the fold, creating a truly united chapter. He was there, he knows that many that were considered Fallen were truly loyal, that Astelan and Luther did not represent every marine left at Caliban. Any Angels who resisted would be cast out. Asmodai would resist and be made an example of, as the psychopath with a torture fetish he is. Cypher becomes his right hand man. Azrael is cool, he can still lead the chapter as the Lion has bigger fish to fry now.

No more secrets. The Lion doesn't put up with that bs because he knows he is the first and best primarch. He would initially attempt to work with RG, but it would quickly become clear that RG isn't up for letting the Lion run things, especially having found out what the Dark Angels have been hiding all these millennia.

The Lion, ever the poor judge of peoples' opinion of him (perhaps his greatest flaw?) would attempt to simply take RG's place, but Terra doesn't listen to him. He returns to The Rock and declares it the new seat of the Imperium, which Terra of course does not recognise, but many world's on the fringes do, including a select number of other Space Marine chapters.

Thus the new Imperium is born, and a stand off on the borders quickly begins to escalate.

The Lion comes back as a demon primarch.

The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Stux, will They still be the unforgiving and the Fallen? Or will they just be Dark angels? Will the lion keep the secret or will he beat them out in the open then protect them from repercussions elsewhere (thinking black templars and inquisition)?

Stux wrote:
Not convinced this will happen, but what I'd personally love:

Lion wakes up. Kicks his chapter's asses for the shenanigans they've pulled over the years. Brings the 'loyal' fallen including Cypher back in to the fold, creating a truly united chapter. He was there, he knows that many that were considered Fallen were truly loyal, that Astelan and Luther did not represent every marine left at Caliban. Any Angels who resisted would be cast out. Asmodai would resist and be made an example of, as the psychopath with a torture fetish he is. Cypher becomes his right hand man. Azrael is cool, he can still lead the chapter as the Lion has bigger fish to fry now.

No more secrets. The Lion doesn't put up with that bs because he knows he is the first and best primarch. He would initially attempt to work with RG, but it would quickly become clear that RG isn't up for letting the Lion run things, especially having found out what the Dark Angels have been hiding all these millennia.

The Lion, ever the poor judge of peoples' opinion of him (perhaps his greatest flaw?) would attempt to simply take RG's place, but Terra doesn't listen to him. He returns to The Rock and declares it the new seat of the Imperium, which Terra of course does not recognise, but many world's on the fringes do, including a select number of other Space Marine chapters.

Thus the new Imperium is born, and a stand off on the borders quickly begins to escalate.

I don’t hate it. I just feel if it comes to pass they lose a little bit of their character and then they just green Mary Sue”s with a more abrasive primarch. Maybe they could leave the codex and get back to their 6 specialized wings. But I personally love the idea of the hunt but agree maybe all of them didn’t turn by choice



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Agreed

kingleir wrote:
Stux, will They still be the unforgiving and the Fallen? Or will they just be Dark angels? Will the lion keep the secret or will he beat them out in the open then protect them from repercussions elsewhere (thinking black templars and inquisition)?

They will just be a unified Dark Angels. No need for Unforgiven and Fallen. The Lion forgives, or purges.

The Lion will not keep secrets. He will believe he does not need to, he has the supreme authority.

For me, the core of Lion's character is that he is an expert fighter and tactician, but who lacks charisma and social awareness. He will assume everyone in the Imperium will recognise his authority, because that is what makes logical sense. But he'll fail to recognise that people are not logical, and want a leader they can love. The Lion doesn't know how to do this, but RG does. Most frustratingly for him, he won't even really understand why he fails to inspire the greater Imperium.

In practice, I don't think there really will be a split. But there will be tensions between the primarchs.

EDIT:
I see him a little bit like Stannis Baratheon.

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Because that arrangement worked out sooooooooo well in Imperium Secundus!

 Karhedron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Because that arrangement worked out sooooooooo well in Imperium Secundus!

It worked extremely well, until Bobby G drew on his inner Hippy powers and forbid the Lion from DOING HIS JOB, and that is, in a nut shell, a microcosm of why the Lion is flat out a better strategist, he gets gak done, Bobby G of 40k isnt the same person as Bobby G in 30k, I think by now he has realised that you really cant hold back when dealing with the traitors/Chaos. Imperium Secondus Failed because of Guiliman, not the Lion or Sangy, Bobby G should have already dealt with the traitors, his reluctance and mercy has no place in the Imperium!!! (secondus)

 Karhedron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Because that arrangement worked out sooooooooo well in Imperium Secundus!

The Lion thinks he is the best. In some respects he is, but his flaws blind him to his flaws. Somewhat ironically. Being Warmaster was enough when daddy was in charge, but I don't think he can play second fiddle to the G man.

 Formosa wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Because that arrangement worked out sooooooooo well in Imperium Secundus!

It worked extremely well, until Bobby G drew on his inner Hippy powers and forbid the Lion from DOING HIS JOB, and that is, in a nut shell, a microcosm of why the Lion is flat out a better strategist, he gets gak done, Bobby G of 40k isnt the same person as Bobby G in 30k, I think by now he has realised that you really cant hold back when dealing with the traitors/Chaos. Imperium Secondus Failed because of Guiliman, not the Lion or Sangy, Bobby G should have already dealt with the traitors, his reluctance and mercy has no place in the Imperium!!! (secondus)

I don't really know if this is a joke because of the nicknaming here, but the Lion literally made parts of Macragge UNINHABITABLE against Guilliman's orders, on his homeworld. There's putting out a fire, and then there's flooding a block just to put it out.

Imperium Secundus failed because the Lion couldn't deal with not being able to kill Kurze on the spot and listen to other people. It wasn't Guilliman who broke the Triumvirate, but Sanguinius who banished him for trying to kill Kurze. It was Sanguinius who was in charge, and he who banished the Lion.
The traitors were suicide bombers, with no real way to hunt them down, and using WMDs was forbidden - and Lion did it anyways. If he was THAT good, he'd be able to do it without needed to destroy parts of Macragge in the process.

The Lion thought he had authority, on someone else's home planet, and over the life of someone who wasn't under his authority. He didn't understand power, and thought he was above it all. That failure was his undoing - his fixation on being Warmaster, just because he was 1st Legion.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

The Lion thought he had authority, on someone else's home planet, and over the life of someone who wasn't under his authority. He didn't understand power, and thought he was above it all. That failure was his undoing - his fixation on being Warmaster, just because he was 1st Legion.

Precisely! He's impossible to work with, and no way he is doing what G wants. If he can be manipulated in to thinking he has the power, but G pulls the strings... Maybe that can work. But if he found out, it would be bloody on a galactic level.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
The lion wanted to be warmaster, not the leader of the imperium, if he comes back, that will happen pure and simple, bobby G knows the lion can do the job of warmaster of the imperium better than he can, plus it lets him get down to what HE does best, get gak organised, with bobby leading the rebuilding and reorganisation of the imperium and the lion leading its armies... everyone else is screwed.

Because that arrangement worked out sooooooooo well in Imperium Secundus!

It worked extremely well, until Bobby G drew on his inner Hippy powers and forbid the Lion from DOING HIS JOB, and that is, in a nut shell, a microcosm of why the Lion is flat out a better strategist, he gets gak done, Bobby G of 40k isnt the same person as Bobby G in 30k, I think by now he has realised that you really cant hold back when dealing with the traitors/Chaos. Imperium Secondus Failed because of Guiliman, not the Lion or Sangy, Bobby G should have already dealt with the traitors, his reluctance and mercy has no place in the Imperium!!! (secondus)

I don't really know if this is a joke because of the nicknaming here, but the Lion literally made parts of Macragge UNINHABITABLE against Guilliman's orders, on his homeworld. There's putting out a fire, and then there's flooding a block just to put it out.

Imperium Secundus failed because the Lion couldn't deal with not being able to kill Kurze on the spot and listen to other people. It wasn't Guilliman who broke the Triumvirate, but Sanguinius who banished him for trying to kill Kurze. It was Sanguinius who was in charge, and he who banished the Lion.
The traitors were suicide bombers, with no real way to hunt them down, and using WMDs was forbidden - and Lion did it anyways. If he was THAT good, he'd be able to do it without needed to destroy parts of Macragge in the process.

The Lion thought he had authority, on someone else's home planet, and over the life of someone who wasn't under his authority. He didn't understand power, and thought he was above it all. That failure was his undoing - his fixation on being Warmaster, just because he was 1st Legion.

Yep I am totally serious, everything you have stated is because of what guilliman DIDNT do, you are looking at the effect and not the cause, Curze could only hide within the rebels realm because it existed in the first place, Bobby was too naive and thought he could win them over with politics eventually.

Was he heavy handed, no, not by imperial standards and not by Dark Angel standards, they are Exterminatus specialists (as per HH book 6), how did you really expect it to go, you dont send a civilisation killing force to handle rebels and not expect them to totally wipe them out in the most efficient way possible, yet another failure by Bobby, not taking into account that his brother would behave the way he always has.

And the Lion wanted to be Warmaster because he was the best man for the Job, in his mind, which unlike all of the other primarchs is based upon cold hard facts alone, he probably looked at all his brothers and thought they were too emotional for the task of bringing the galaxy to heel, he was wrong, pure and simple, Lion would have excelled at the military aspect of the role, but failed miserably at the politicking side, he just doesnt think that way.