Insectum7 wrote:
Well then, clearly it's not aimed at you. I wouldn't buy an update to armies I don't play either. I wouldn't be a mr. grumpypants about it though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Well then, clearly it's not aimed at you. I wouldn't buy an update to armies I don't play either. I wouldn't be a mr. grumpypants about it though.

Are you purposely missing their point?

Tyel wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
CA was touted primarily as a temporary fix for Index armies suffering under significantly over powered/under powered units. MOST of the index armies were hoping for some serious help because a lot of their army was basically invalid..

Yeah this basically.

I mean okay - maybe they don't want to have say Ork/Necron/Tau etc players run out and buy this only to find there is a new codex to buy in February 2018.

But for people who had been hoping their Index was going to get meaningful help this is a bit of a fail. Melee special weapons are no longer comically overpriced. Well that's nice - but not exactly changing the game.

We’ve said right from the start that the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 is one that we’d work to make even better over time. This is one of the ways that will happen. Each year, you’ll have a new Chapter Approved, expanding your gaming options and making what we think is already the best Warhammer 40,000 ever, even better.

Expect the first Chapter Approved book in time for Christmas.

We’ve heard a little more about what we can look forward to in the upcoming Chapter Approved, and it sounds more and more exciting the more we hear.

We learned at NOVA tonight that the new book will feature, (amongst many other things)

An expansion for Apocalypse games of Warhammer 40,000
Guidelines on running a planetary invasion campaign
Updated matched play points for dozens of units and weapons across every army
Loads of new Missions for open, narrative and matched play.

We are also bringing a whole new feature to Open Play. Designing and building your own vehicles is a feature that hasn’t appeared in Warhammer 40,000 since 5th Edition. We are going to trial some new rules to allow you to design your very own Land Raider variants and field these behemoths on the battlefields of the 41st Millennium.

Finally Chapter Approved will also give Factions that have not yet received their codex some expanded rules while they wait, allowing these factions to make use of some of the cool new mechanics available in Warhammer 40,000.

Chapter Approved is looking like a must for any dedicated Warhammer 40,000 player.

It’s time to change the way you play Warhammer 40,000 – the first annual instalment of Chapter Approved is here. It’s your perfect gaming companion, packed with 128 pages of new rules for open, narrative and matched play. In the open play section, you’ll find an entire Apocalypse expansion for playing massive games, including variant rules and three missions. There’s also a set of rules for customising your Land Raiders with different weaponry, allowing you to kit out your vehicle to fit your playing style.

Narrative play brings you expanded Planetstrike and Stronghold Assault rules, building on those in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook with missions, Warlord Traits, Stratagems and datasheets for 11 fortifications.

The matched play rules include 12 new missions – 6 Eternal War and 6 Maelstrom of War – plus new rules for matched play games, a guide to making objective markers, and Faction rules for 11 of the factions yet to receive a codex, including Drukhari, Orks, Thousand Sons and Adepta Sororitas.

Finally, an appendix contains rules for any game type, including terrain rules, Stratagems, Battlezone: Empyric Storms and how to run ladder campaigns. Plus updated points for a range of models across all the game’s factions help to balance the game and make it more fun for everyone.

Chapter Approved 2017 is available to pre-order in paperback and eBook formats (including an iBooks-exclusive Enhanced Edition). There is also a fabulous Warlord Edition which includes the book alongside 24 exclusive mission cards detailing the Eternal War, Maelstrom of War, Planetstrike and Stronghold Assault missions from the book, alongside 47 Stratagem cards, various useful tokens, 2 turn and victory point trackers and a pad of 50 army roster sheets – a perfect festive gift for your favourite gamer (or yourself).
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Chapter-Approved-2017-ENG

If you plan on building one of the new Land Raider variants in Chapter Approved, you might also be interested in the Terminus Ultra upgrade pack, which contains 2 sprues giving you weapons and additional sponsons to add to your Land Raider and build this devastatingly powerful variant.

An enormous toolkit of rules, updates and ways to play, Chapter Approved is an essential purchase for any Warhammer 40,000 player. Expanding upon the rules found in the Warhammer 40,000 book, this 128-page softback book contains narrative-driven battles and scenarios depicting brutal sieges, exciting new ways to play, mechanics for designing your own vehicles and a host of new rules to take to the battlefield.

The Rules

Split into 3 sections – Open Play, Narrative Play and Matched Play – with explanations and expansions of the rules for each.

Open Play

Games of Warhammer 40,000 with few restrictions, where players are free to invent their own stories and frameworks with unlimited force sizes – this is Open Play. Chapter Approved provides the following guides to making your Open Play games as open and fun as possible:

- Apocalypse: huge, dramatic tabletop conflicts in which hundreds of infantry and squadrons of vehicles are locked in desperate conflict, games of Apocalypse are Warhammer 40,000 turned up to 11. Combine armies into immense forces, unleash terrifying super-heavy war engines – Apocalypse is your gateway to truly epic battles.Chapter Approved features a comprehensive guide to running games of Apocalypse, from 3 missions, ideas for multi-table battles and recommendations for an officiated game featuring an Umpire with special influence over the battle.
- Land Raider variants: this is a set of guidelines on designing your own datasheets for Land Raider conversions, meaning totally new variants for your games made completely by you! There are 5 example datasheets covering Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Chaos Space Marines tanks, and a blank datasheet for you to create your own, whatever Chapter you choose.

Narrative Play

Narrative Play games are characterised by pre-generated storylines that often take in entire worlds embroiled in war, from the initial invasions to the bloody battles that follow. Chapter Approved provides rules and missions that the players can chain together, following a conflict from the initial spark to its brutal denouement:

- Planetstrike: rules for playing games of devastating planetary assaults, with one player taking the role of attacker and the other defending, each using the new Warlord Traits, Stratagems and detachments designed for this play style. Included are 6 Planetstrike missions, along with 6 examples of common battlefield deployments;
- Stronghold Assault: rules for games in which players fight over fortified war zones, again deciding between them the roles of attacker and defender. This includes unique Abilities, Warlord Traits, Detachments and Stratagems, as well as 6 Stronghold Assault missions;
- Rules are included for linking games together in linear, narrative-led campaigns, with losses and victories deciding advantages in subsequent games;
- Datasheets for the following 11 fortifications: Aegis Defence Line, Imperial Bastion, Imperial Defence Line, Imperial Bunker, Vengeance Weapon Battery, Plasma Obliterator, Firestorm Redoubt, Macro-cannon Aquila Strongpoint, Vortex Missile Aquila Strongpoint, Void Shield Generator, Skyshield Landing Pad.

Matched Play

For many players, the thrill of Warhammer 40,000 is in testing their mettle against equally-powerful opponents in games where the fight is not decided by who has the biggest gun. When battle-forged armies go to war, victory will go to the commander who has fortune, strategy and cunning on their side. Included in this book:

- 6 Eternal War missions, providing challenges such as hidden mission goals and reserve forces storming in, turn after turn, creating havoc on a catastrophic scale;
- 6 Maelstrom of War missions, offering new permutations of the game and introducing fresh challenges – secret orders, strategic gambles and split-second opportunity feature here;
- 4 new Matched Play mission rules, including rules for targeting characters, using understrength units, clarification on the use of the Command Re-roll Stratagem who which unit types can claim objectives;
- Faction rules: additional rules including Stratagems, abilities, Warlord Traits and psychic powers for Adepta Sororitas, Deathwatch, Drukhari, Genestealer Cults, Harlequins, Imperial Knights, Necrons, Orks, Space Wolves, T’au Empire, and Thousand Sons;
- A guide to creating your own objective markers, themed to your own army, with examples for Imperial, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids, Drukhari, T’au Empire, and Orks.

Appendix

The Appendix features a collection of supplementary content which can be used in any games of Warhammer 40,000. Included:

- Rules for a range of terrain, including Deathworld Forests (Eldritch Ruins, Grapple Weed, Shardwrack Spine, and Barbed Venomgorse) and Sector Mechanicus (Haemotrope Reactor, Thermic Plasma Regulators, and Thermic Plasma Conduits);
- Battlezone: Industrial Worlds – use Sector Mechanicus scenery to add height advantages and tap into plasma feeds to increase your weapons’ potential;
- Battlezone: Empyric Storms – rules for fighting amidst a violent warp tide, with 36 events that can affect your armies, surroundings and psychic powers;
- A guide to setting up and running Ladder campaigns;
- An explanation of Battle-forged armies, creating Detachments and Army Rosters;
- Updated points values for a variety of units and wargear for both Citadel and Forge World miniatures, based on feedback from the gaming community.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, did I read something wrong or miss something, or did Chaos get reduced cost on their chainfists while loyalists are still paying 22 points for theirs?

 Insectum7 wrote:
Well then, clearly it's not aimed at you. I wouldn't buy an update to armies I don't play either. I wouldn't be a mr. grumpypants about it though.

hobojebus wrote:

There you are wrong I'm not playing any 40k at the moment because everyone but me has got a codex, last two games I was shot off the board by turn two thanks to stratagems I have no counters to.

 Tokhuah wrote:
Random thoughts:

Rebalancing something that is incomplete is not Sparta, it is insanity!

I have an almost new 8th Edition Rulebook I am selling for $20.

I preferred playing early 7th with a 5th edition Codex to this, because what I have now is a mothballed army. The only positive of 8th is that it provides me with the ability to brag about having more points of Necrons without actually painting any more of them...

 Tokhuah wrote:
Random thoughts:

Rebalancing something that is incomplete is not Sparta, it is insanity!

I have an almost new 8th Edition Rulebook I am selling for $20.

I preferred playing early 7th with a 5th edition Codex to this, because what I have now is a mothballed army. The only positive of 8th is that it provides me with the ability to brag about having more points of Necrons without actually painting any more of them...

 Tokhuah wrote:
A few months? it will be at least half of a year, or six months as you please. 8th edition is a cluster frack of half-baked promises topped with a turd cherry.

I actually clearly stated that I preferred the old Codex usage of the past to having no codex in the present. The so-called updates are nothing but taint which those of us who do not have their noses up GW's ass can smell.

 Tokhuah wrote:
A few months? it will be at least half of a year, or six months as you please. 8th edition is a cluster frack of half-baked promises topped with a turd cherry.

I actually clearly stated that I preferred the old Codex usage of the past to having no codex in the present. The so-called updates are nothing but taint which those of us who do not have their noses up GW's ass can smell.

morgoth wrote:
I don't really get all the negativity.

From what I've heard, CA did at least a few things right:

1. Increased point cost of Guilliman
2. Increased point cost of Assbacks
3. Decreased point cost of unused units
4. Increased point cost of Malefic Lords
5. Increased point cost of Conscripts, so that nobody can buy bubble wrap for less than 4p per model, even if they're imperium - still a good thing, thank you.
6. Increased point cost of Shadow Spectres which were identified as undercosted.

Etc.

I think it's an awesome balance patch and I totally appreciate GW taking it slow, removing 10 points from a drop pod here, adding 25 points to a Guilliman there, not going too hard on any changes in order to prevent ridiculous overshooting.

I can't wait to see the rest of the 8th ed codices, as well as the next CA to see it all come even closer to being balanced.

Hurray for balance patches.

morgoth wrote:
I don't really get all the negativity.

From what I've heard, CA did at least a few things right:

1. Increased point cost of Guilliman
2. Increased point cost of Assbacks
3. Decreased point cost of unused units
4. Increased point cost of Malefic Lords
5. Increased point cost of Conscripts, so that nobody can buy bubble wrap for less than 4p per model, even if they're imperium - still a good thing, thank you.
6. Increased point cost of Shadow Spectres which were identified as undercosted.

Etc.

I think it's an awesome balance patch and I totally appreciate GW taking it slow, removing 10 points from a drop pod here, adding 25 points to a Guilliman there, not going too hard on any changes in order to prevent ridiculous overshooting.

I can't wait to see the rest of the 8th ed codices, as well as the next CA to see it all come even closer to being balanced.

Hurray for balance patches.

hobojebus wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I don't really get all the negativity.

From what I've heard, CA did at least a few things right:

1. Increased point cost of Guilliman
2. Increased point cost of Assbacks
3. Decreased point cost of unused units
4. Increased point cost of Malefic Lords
5. Increased point cost of Conscripts, so that nobody can buy bubble wrap for less than 4p per model, even if they're imperium - still a good thing, thank you.
6. Increased point cost of Shadow Spectres which were identified as undercosted.

Etc.

I think it's an awesome balance patch and I totally appreciate GW taking it slow, removing 10 points from a drop pod here, adding 25 points to a Guilliman there, not going too hard on any changes in order to prevent ridiculous overshooting.

I can't wait to see the rest of the 8th ed codices, as well as the next CA to see it all come even closer to being balanced.

Hurray for balance patches.

I literally can not find anyone crying for shadow spectres to be nerfed, they were good by all accounts but no one was crying out for a nerf of this magnitude.

Girlyman is still too cheap.

Lord spam needed addressing but this was an over adjustment.

morgoth wrote:
Who cares, most of these were justified and in the right direction. That's a lot better than nothing.

Wayniac wrote:
You know what would help this? if GW actually had a formula instead of just winging points changes. You would not see "Eh let's raise Guilliman 25 points" when all those changes and the Asscan Razorback change means is the power list drops 1 razorback (so still has like 5) to compensate. It fixed nothing at all, it makes it look like GW is addressing the problems, when they really are just doing barely anything and then looking for a pat on the back and an attaboy because they did something when before they'd ignore it.

tneva82 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
You know what would help this? if GW actually had a formula instead of just winging points changes. You would not see "Eh let's raise Guilliman 25 points" when all those changes and the Asscan Razorback change means is the power list drops 1 razorback (so still has like 5) to compensate. It fixed nothing at all, it makes it look like GW is addressing the problems, when they really are just doing barely anything and then looking for a pat on the back and an attaboy because they did something when before they'd ignore it.

How this would help? Any formula based method to make even remotely balanced points is 100% quaranteed to fail. It's even more impossible than perfect balance is.

The second you bring formula into play figuring point cost you know you have gone horribly wrong from the get go.

And 16% less assault cannon razorbacks isn't that insignificant difference in toughness, shooting and utility.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Are you referring to Tzeentch's Firestorm? That actually got math'd out to do less damage-per-cast than even the gakky rubric smite because of the awful WC 7. Also I'm pretty sure you can't replace smite with it so rubrics wouldn't be able to take it anyways.

morgoth wrote:
I don't really get all the negativity.

From what I've heard, CA did at least a few things right:

1. Increased point cost of Guilliman
2. Increased point cost of Assbacks
3. Decreased point cost of unused units
4. Increased point cost of Malefic Lords
5. Increased point cost of Conscripts, so that nobody can buy bubble wrap for less than 4p per model, even if they're imperium - still a good thing, thank you.
6. Increased point cost of Shadow Spectres which were identified as undercosted.

Etc.

I think it's an awesome balance patch and I totally appreciate GW taking it slow, removing 10 points from a drop pod here, adding 25 points to a Guilliman there, not going too hard on any changes in order to prevent ridiculous overshooting.

I can't wait to see the rest of the 8th ed codices, as well as the next CA to see it all come even closer to being balanced.

Hurray for balance patches.

hobojebus wrote:
What people want is logical adjustments that have been well thought out and play tested, ca does not deliver that.

Upping the price of underpowered units while leaving strong units untouched makes no sense.

Never seen any demand for shadow spectres to be nerfed but they shot up 60 points.

And rules for index armies are very lacklustre and don't help with the massive power difference.

Most don't care about the missions we wanted fixes and did not get them.

Daedalus81 wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
What people want is logical adjustments that have been well thought out and play tested, ca does not deliver that.

Upping the price of underpowered units while leaving strong units untouched makes no sense.

Never seen any demand for shadow spectres to be nerfed but they shot up 60 points.

And rules for index armies are very lacklustre and don't help with the massive power difference.

Most don't care about the missions we wanted fixes and did not get them.

Just because you didn't see calls for Shadow Spectres to be nerfed doesn't mean they didn't need it. (They did)

Just because they didn't touch some units doesn't mean they needed to or that they won't in the future.

There's a benefit to not tilting huge sections of units points before you can assess current changes.

Daedalus81 wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
What people want is logical adjustments that have been well thought out and play tested, ca does not deliver that.

Upping the price of underpowered units while leaving strong units untouched makes no sense.

Never seen any demand for shadow spectres to be nerfed but they shot up 60 points.

And rules for index armies are very lacklustre and don't help with the massive power difference.

Most don't care about the missions we wanted fixes and did not get them.

Just because you didn't see calls for Shadow Spectres to be nerfed doesn't mean they didn't need it. (They did)

Just because they didn't touch some units doesn't mean they needed to or that they won't in the future.

There's a benefit to not tilting huge sections of units points before you can assess current changes.