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Okay, at this point I've basically seen a fully leaked version of chapter approved and my only conclusion is this should 100% be a free pdf! At the very least the army points changes and new rules should have been a pdf! For my army only like 4 unit prices have changed (with a handful of weapons) and we got like 3 new rules (nothing significant enough to make me feel happy)... this in no way justifies me paying for a book that not only will be outdated in a few months but also has a bunch of crap about missions I'll never even bother to play (I don't feel happy about giving gw my money for this!) If you look at the overall effort put into chapter approved you should be outraged. However, gw knows we cannot not buy this because it slightly updates our armies (when in reality it feels engineered to disappoint us in preparation for the codex) as a lot of us are looking for the slightest rules changes to make our armies at least comparable to the codex stuff (because if we don't buy this it could be months before we get a game worth playing). I for one will actually skip this book and just hold out until the codex by painting. What's your opinions on your army changes and if this should be free?

(Jokes on the guys who told us Chapter Approved would fix everything).

I agree. If it had been a comprehensive review and rebalance of every codex unit then I would have been delighted to shell out for it. But it appears to be a rush-job that deals out a few needed adjustments along with a few random changes. It is not good enough.

Given how seemingly random most of the changes are, especially the FW changes (these are particularly incomprehensible), and with the huge numbers of units in need of help that got nothing relevant (or at all), I'm not particularly impressed with the effort.

Certainly not enough to want to rush out and pay real money for the book

 Vaktathi wrote:
Certainly not enough to want to rush out and pay real money for the book

Yeah, the point costs have been posted online, there's zero reason to pay for this book. And TBH there's very little reason to acknowledge the changes at all.

Seeing as GW Knew >40% of us would just be reading the points, and seeing as it's already been leaked.


What's the problem, exactly?

 malamis wrote:
Seeing as GW Knew >40% of us would just be reading the points, and seeing as it's already been leaked.


What's the problem, exactly?

The problem is that this should have been free all along and gw is willing to charge players for this crap. And we all just go along without it. In all honesty we kinda should stand up and not buy it. Vote with our wallets and show gw that they shouldn't try this again. It's one thing to overcharge us for plastic but now they are overcharging us for paper!

So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?


GW isn't a new start-up company which can factor in free rules releases into their pricing structure and which likely has the rules writer also being the company manager or any one of a half dozen other roles in the company. GW is a larger company with larger overheads who are making a larger investment in staff time to refine rules after the community has requested/screamed for them.

Also we already know that after this big hump that is the initial release of 8th edition they'll shift toward a 6 month review pattern.

Heck at this stage we don't even know if GW is even going to release a 9th edition. They could easily just make 8th edition THE edition and shift into a continual rolling update of balance adjustments; collating it all together every few years with updated codex releases (which also come with fluff and such too).

I kind of agree. The points changes should be freely available. The rest, sure make it in the book to buy.

I think that the points changes and other errata should be free. Any new fluff or missions I'd be fine paying for or not getting.

But yeah-making us pay for fixing your mistakes feels kinda rude.

Honestly, with so little meaningful changes I feel like I'm paying full price for a demo! And then paying full price again for the game! In this time frame where most companies offer free patches and updates I feel ripped off more than usual (and that's saying something). I'm not upset with the changes, just upset gw is trying to get me to pay for them.

paying for the update narks a bit as you need the originals still as well.

Had CA included complete replacement pages for all the point values then it would actually be useful - as it can use the codex for the rules and allowed options then use CA for the points.

Does it matter when you'll find all the relevant points changes online anyway? Honestly? Get the book if you want the scenarios and VDR land raider rules, etc.

I don't have a reason to buy it anyway since it has no changes to Blood Angels.

 Overread wrote:
So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?

I would definitely pay for better and continuously tweaked rules, but I am not willing to pay for a half-assed low effort job.

pismakron wrote:

 Overread wrote:
So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?

I would definitely pay for better and continuously tweaked rules, but I am not willing to pay for a half-assed low effort job.

Agreed. These changes are not particularly well done.

 Overread wrote:
So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?

Where are the better rules for Sisters, exactly? Two of our better units got nerfed rather nastily, and it's not like we're top tier right now-- you don't see us winning tournaments. And Orks barely even got touched, though what did get buffed badly needed it-- you're not gonna see a huge wave of Ork wins. Codex Marines got an enormous, unprecedented buff, but a lot of other armies barely even got touched, or worse got nerfed-- and several armies didn't get touched at all.

So you want me to pay for a book that does nothing but make my army worse when it's not even all that powerful to begin with, or that doesn't even include my army in it... while the book buffs already strong armies to hell and back?

I mean damn, don't get me wrong. The primaris changes were for the most part needed. But lots of other units and even whole armies were flat out overlooked. If, as it seems, all they really wanted to do is make primaris cheaper, they could have done that with a FAQ and not charged for it.

Well stands to reason that armies without full new codex are not going to be fully up to speed as yet; that's a waiting game sadly as its always been - the only difference is that this time around you likely only have to wait a year before its finished rather than waiting for IF your army got a new codex.

At this point I'm still at a "if" for Sisters. People talk about them getting one, but have no evidence they will, never mind any evidence they'll get new minis. That takes effort that GW could be giving to primaris marines.

True Sisters could still be hit or miss on a new codex; or they might be rolled into another combined release with another faction.

That said they are still marines and the largest female based faction for 40K so that goes in their favour. If GW wanted another female focused faction then it would be more sensible to bolster the Sisters rather than try another.

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay, at this point I've basically seen a fully leaked version of chapter approved and my only conclusion is this should 100% be a free pdf! At the very least the army points changes and new rules should have been a pdf! For my army only like 4 unit prices have changed (with a handful of weapons) and we got like 3 new rules (nothing significant enough to make me feel happy)... this in no way justifies me paying for a book that not only will be outdated in a few months but also has a bunch of crap about missions I'll never even bother to play (I don't feel happy about giving gw my money for this!) If you look at the overall effort put into chapter approved you should be outraged. However, gw knows we cannot not buy this because it slightly updates our armies (when in reality it feels engineered to disappoint us in preparation for the codex) as a lot of us are looking for the slightest rules changes to make our armies at least comparable to the codex stuff (because if we don't buy this it could be months before we get a game worth playing). I for one will actually skip this book and just hold out until the codex by painting. What's your opinions on your army changes and if this should be free?

(Jokes on the guys who told us Chapter Approved would fix everything).

No, you haven't. You've seen 16 pages leaked on reddit. Chapter Approved isn't just points changes

 Overread wrote:
That said they are still marines

No they aren't. They are explicitly and specifically not marines. They are ordinary humans.

 Overread wrote:
So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?


GW isn't a new start-up company which can factor in free rules releases into their pricing structure and which likely has the rules writer also being the company manager or any one of a half dozen other roles in the company. GW is a larger company with larger overheads who are making a larger investment in staff time to refine rules after the community has requested/screamed for them.

Also we already know that after this big hump that is the initial release of 8th edition they'll shift toward a 6 month review pattern.

Heck at this stage we don't even know if GW is even going to release a 9th edition. They could easily just make 8th edition THE edition and shift into a continual rolling update of balance adjustments; collating it all together every few years with updated codex releases (which also come with fluff and such too).

Seeing as Grey Knights didn't GET any notable balance support I can say yes, yes I am fully comfortable not buying this. Pass.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
Okay, at this point I've basically seen a fully leaked version of chapter approved and my only conclusion is this should 100% be a free pdf! At the very least the army points changes and new rules should have been a pdf! For my army only like 4 unit prices have changed (with a handful of weapons) and we got like 3 new rules (nothing significant enough to make me feel happy)... this in no way justifies me paying for a book that not only will be outdated in a few months but also has a bunch of crap about missions I'll never even bother to play (I don't feel happy about giving gw my money for this!) If you look at the overall effort put into chapter approved you should be outraged. However, gw knows we cannot not buy this because it slightly updates our armies (when in reality it feels engineered to disappoint us in preparation for the codex) as a lot of us are looking for the slightest rules changes to make our armies at least comparable to the codex stuff (because if we don't buy this it could be months before we get a game worth playing). I for one will actually skip this book and just hold out until the codex by painting. What's your opinions on your army changes and if this should be free?

(Jokes on the guys who told us Chapter Approved would fix everything).

No, you haven't. You've seen 16 pages leaked on reddit. Chapter Approved isn't just points changes

I was about to post the same thing.

There's more content to use than just point adjustments. Do I agree with all of them? Absolutely not. Am I okay with some of them? Sure. At least it'll take less time to adjust everything this time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Audustum wrote:

 Overread wrote:
So after years of saying we'd pay for better rules and balance support from GW we'll turn around and say that, actually, we'd rather not?


GW isn't a new start-up company which can factor in free rules releases into their pricing structure and which likely has the rules writer also being the company manager or any one of a half dozen other roles in the company. GW is a larger company with larger overheads who are making a larger investment in staff time to refine rules after the community has requested/screamed for them.

Also we already know that after this big hump that is the initial release of 8th edition they'll shift toward a 6 month review pattern.

Heck at this stage we don't even know if GW is even going to release a 9th edition. They could easily just make 8th edition THE edition and shift into a continual rolling update of balance adjustments; collating it all together every few years with updated codex releases (which also come with fluff and such too).

Seeing as Grey Knights didn't GET any notable balance support I can say yes, yes I am fully comfortable not buying this. Pass.

The regular Terminators DID get a hefty 5 point cut. Thats a step up from having went up 2 from Index to Codex. Still annoyed on no Purifier fix myself.

Did they say something about a living codex that will be updated free.... Or was that AoS?

OgreChubbs wrote:
Did they say something about a living codex that will be updated free.... Or was that AoS?

I don't recall this at all. I am sure Games Workshop didn't say this, but someone thinking that is what GW should do, and just got turned around that they said they would. They don't even do this for Age of Sigmar. You want updated points, you need to buy the latest General Handbook.

Playing devils advocate here, there hasn't been anything yet to say that they won't release the points as a free pdf / errata like they have for previous units.

And even if they don't. Each faction has a small table you can easily take a photo of. Hell, the leaks are already all over imgur and are known already.

Things like Planetstrike, Stronghold Assault, tons of new stratagems for those types of games, new missions, new campaign/ladder rules is justifiably a supplement and is more than fair to be charged for.

Yeah, I'm fine paying for the new rules, missions, apoc, campaign, etc. That's a supplement.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the points changes for free, like in their errata sections, but as others have said:

A) They haven't said they won't release points changes as a PDF. They may well do so.

B) Everyone already knows the points changes for free via leaks, so there's not really much to complain about.

I'm personally happy to pick it up for the campaign and apoc ideas.

The changes are overall very good. Should´ve been free, as some clearly broken stuff (especially FW stuff: aertos and malefic lords f.ex.) got fixed. Chainfists and powerfists are now back in the game. Drop pods got a much needed points reduction (maybe not enough).

You know this thing only costs 20 quid?

 Hollow wrote:
You know this thing only costs 20 quid?

You know, that was my response to people when they were grumbling about indexes as new codexes were rolled out much quicker than many expected.

But, were I to buy CA, which is looking pretty shakey right now, we're talking

New Rules £35
New Index £15
New FW Index £15
New Codex £25
CA £20.

So that's potentially £110 on rules in less than 6 months for one army. Daemons are due shortly and if I want to be able to play them, then that's another £25.

"Just get it from Reddit" isn't really a valid counter, as "just take it" can be applied to pretty much anything, and I always buy at discount, but that only saves so much.