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1) Why do certain units have the option to take more then one power fist or power claw? I can’t find the benefit in the rule book for duplicating a weapon.

2) How does cover work from weapons that are out of LOS? I read on some of the bigger datasheets that the vehicle has to be at least 50% obscured to get cover. Does cover work different for them?

1) Sometimes you can take different melee weapons and split attacks up between them. As for things like double Pfist, no, there's no benefit to doing that.

2) Vehicles basically don't get cover. They FAQ'd it so that they have to be 50% obscured AND fully within a terrain piece. That said, if you shoot an indirect fire weapon that doesn't have Ignores cover, while out of LoS, at a vehicle wholely within a ruin, it gets cover as normal. You LoSing yourself gave it obscured.

Some weapons grant extra attacks by merely having them, like chainswords, having multiple will trigger multiple extra attacks.
Some models also have thier own rule to get a bonus if they have a pair of weapons, like helbrute/dreadnaut who gain an extra attack with two fists (CA reduces the cost if the second fist massively)

ERJAK wrote:
1) Sometimes you can take different melee weapons and split attacks up between them. As for things like double Pfist, no, there's no benefit to doing that.

2) Vehicles basically don't get cover. They FAQ'd it so that they have to be 50% obscured AND fully within a terrain piece. That said, if you shoot an indirect fire weapon that doesn't have Ignores cover, while out of LoS, at a vehicle wholely within a ruin, it gets cover as normal. You LoSing yourself gave it obscured.

regarding point 2. if you read faq for designer notes. it says that "entirely within" is defined as "all models are in or partially within". this means that a single vehicle only has to touch the terrain in question (and be 50% obscured) to gain cover. So it's not that hard. Only ruins, forrests and I think statues gives this kind of cover though. Much of the remaining terrain rules only benefit infantry (such as craters, barricades)

^Shaky ground there. "partially within" is not the same as "only has to touch it"

 Hollow wrote:
^Shaky ground there. "partially within" is not the same as "only has to touch it"

How is it not?

Because of what the words mean. If I have a coin and I touch it to the edge of a cup. The coin is not partially in the cup.

Thank you for the reply.

For an example of question one: Orc Meganobzs can take two Killsawz, and Chapter Approved has lowered the cost of taking two to a mere 23 points. (There was also a points break on taking just one, if I remember correctly). So there has to be a reason that GW is including a price break on the pair.

 Hollow wrote:
Because of what the words mean. If I have a coin and I touch it to the edge of a cup. The coin is not partially in the cup.

So where would you draw the line of a model being partially within a ruin or woods?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jrandom wrote:
Thank you for the reply.

For an example of question one: Orc Meganobzs can take two Killsawz, and Chapter Approved has lowered the cost of taking two to a mere 23 points. (There was also a points break on taking just one, if I remember correctly). So there has to be a reason that GW is including a price break on the pair.

The reason is likely that the additional killsaw only adds one attack on that model, so it's not worth the same as 2 models with one kill saw each.

Gitdakka wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
Because of what the words mean. If I have a coin and I touch it to the edge of a cup. The coin is not partially in the cup.

So where would you draw the line of a model being partially within a ruin or woods?

A model is in cover if some part of the model's base is on the cover base. Touching the terrain base with the side of the model base would not qualify according to this definition.

“The reason is likely that the additional killsaw only adds one attack on that model, so it's not worth the same as 2 models with one kill saw each.”

But the Power Claw mentions nothing about getting an extra attack. It pretty much has the language for Power FIst.

The real reason is so you can protect yourself against Jain Zar's Disarming Strike ability.

Powerklaw and killsaw are two different weapons and yes the Powerklaw is the ork equivalent to a powerfist. Killsaw has different rules and a different damage stat, one of which is that a MANz model can dual wield it for an extra attack. Gitdakka is correct, first killsaw is 3 attacks at that profile . Second killsaw is only one more attack at that profile. Price adjust ed for the decreasing returns .

 jeff white wrote:

Gitdakka wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
Because of what the words mean. If I have a coin and I touch it to the edge of a cup. The coin is not partially in the cup.

So where would you draw the line of a model being partially within a ruin or woods?

A model is in cover if some part of the model's base is on the cover base. Touching the terrain base with the side of the model base would not qualify according to this definition.

Well if i measure a range, for example within 6", i would include the exact distance 6" aswell. Same with this terrain rule. Within terrain would include touching it. But thats just my way of seeing it maybe?

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Powerklaw and killsaw are two different weapons and yes the Powerklaw is the ork equivalent to a powerfist. Killsaw has different rules and a different damage stat, one of which is that a MANz model can dual wield it for an extra attack. Gitdakka is correct, first killsaw is 3 attacks at that profile . Second killsaw is only one more attack at that profile. Price adjust ed for the decreasing returns .

Sorry for blending them. I am reading the Xenos 2 Index right now, and cannot find anything about 2 Killsawz doing anything over 1 Killsawz.

According to this from the FAQ:

Q: A number of abilities allow a unit to arrive during the battle
and be set up more than 9" from any enemy models. If I use
such an ability to set up as close as allowed towards an enemy
unit and then select it as the target of the charge, what is the
minimum charge distance I need to roll to make a successful
charge (assuming no modifiers)?
A: 9.

You would only need to touch the terrain to benefit from it. Obviously discuss this with your opponent, but that's how the rule reads.

What does that FAQ question/answer have to do with what you're saying about terrain?

Touching, partially in, wholly in. IT STILL needs to be 50% obscured.

But it does say partially. Define partially, Are we regressing to a toe in gets cover?

However its someone said earlier in the thread discuss with your opponent. Then the rule agreed upon works both ways

A toe in does qualify for cover. Touching does not.

 Todosi wrote:
According to this from the FAQ:

Q: A number of abilities allow a unit to arrive during the battle
and be set up more than 9" from any enemy models. If I use
such an ability to set up as close as allowed towards an enemy
unit and then select it as the target of the charge, what is the
minimum charge distance I need to roll to make a successful
charge (assuming no modifiers)?
A: 9.

You would only need to touch the terrain to benefit from it. Obviously discuss this with your opponent, but that's how the rule reads.

As much as I agree that by touching terrain you'd be in it.

Your above rule quote has no factor in this arguement as for a charge you only have to get within an inch of the defender, so although your officially just out of 9" you would only need to charge 8.00000001 so a roll of 9 would get you in.