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Hey guys, I’m wondering if you could let me know whether you think my Astra Militarum list is overpowered or not. I’ve played 8 games with them since the new Codex came out (all against experienced, good players) and have won all 8, with most being pretty one-sided. I don’t want my opponents to dislike playing me, or think that my army is overpowered - this list is everything I own, and is just the models and units I like rather than it being a purpose built list that is intended to be powerful.

1500 points (Battalion and Spearhead), previously Cadian but I’m now starting to use Valhallan.

Company Commander
Company Commander
Tank Commander in Punisher
Tank Commander in Standard Russ
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Scion Squad with meltas
Scout sentinel with heavy flamer
Hellhound
Manticore
Standard Russ
Demolisher Russ

Opponents have been Marines x3, Eldar x2, other Astra Militarum x2 and Chaos once.

Thanks

It does not look OP or scummy to me at all. I would be amazed if someone took issue with it.

JamesWright83 wrote:
Hey guys, I’m wondering if you could let me know whether you think my Astra Militarum list is overpowered or not. I’ve played 8 games with them since the new Codex came out (all against experienced, good players) and have won all 8, with most being pretty one-sided. I don’t want my opponents to dislike playing me, or think that my army is overpowered - this list is everything I own, and is just the models and units I like rather than it being a purpose built list that is intended to be powerful.

1500 points (Battalion and Spearhead), previously Cadian but I’m now starting to use Valhallan.

Company Commander
Company Commander
Tank Commander in Punisher
Tank Commander in Standard Russ
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Scion Squad with meltas
Scout sentinel with heavy flamer
Hellhound
Manticore
Standard Russ
Demolisher Russ

Opponents have been Marines x3, Eldar x2, other Astra Militarum x2 and Chaos once.

Thanks

Here's the thing - it's a good list. It's not OP, or bad it's just a pretty good list without breaking into the current meta list (Malefic lord Spam, Scion soup spam, Bobby g and Ass razorbacks etc) Currently AM "good lists" are better then anyone elses "good" list with maybe the exception of altoic eldar? So your list isn't OP but the quality of the AM codex is just that good.

It is a good list, but not an OP list. Do you play Maelstrom?

it's a pretty solid list. If (I am assuming) you are basically running without frills and extraneous upgrades, you're probably going to beat out most casual lists with it. it's a solid TAC list.

I would maybe consider running it with one of the more interesting Regimental Doctrines rather than the most straight up powerful - try Tallarn or Vostroyan maybe.

pismakron wrote:
It is a good list, but not an OP list. Do you play Maelstrom?

A mixture of maelstrom and eternal war. It’s a fairly static army, but my Hellhound, Sentinel, Demolisher and Punisher generally advance forward quite far as have been pretty good at capturing objectives.

I think it's fine and solid.

IG are just very strong right now. Have you tried the Mordian doctrine? I think that'd be a fun doctrine to try, but it's one of the worst.

Imperial Guard are obviously overpowered, so a balanced AM list with good units is going to trounce most people.

If you're looking to balance your list so you aren't curb stomping your friends, I'd suggest:

1. Drop the Manticore; don't bring anything that allows you to fire without line of sight.

2. Drop the scions. They're the poster child for imbalance in 8th edition.

Can't tell if sarcasm, Marmatag.

Don't listen to them. I'm gonna blow your mind. Guard are not overpowered. Artillery is not overpowered. Scions are not overpowered.

Your list looks totally fine. Lots of vehicles. Vulnerable to alpha strikes from sisters, nids, what have you. Vulnerable to a few well-placed lascannon shots. Vulnerable to just straight up being locked in combat.

IG is currently overpowered. Just compare scions to marines or wyverns to whirlwinds. IG dominate in every phase of the game except assault, which currently doesn't matter. Artillery and scions are very undercosted which makes them overpowered.

Martel732 wrote:
IG is currently overpowered. Just compare scions to marines or wyverns to whirlwinds. IG dominate in every phase of the game except assault, which currently doesn't matter.

Yeah I mean directly comparing an army's strengths to another army's weakness is obviously how you tell something is overpowered.

I mean geeze compare an Inquisitor to a Tactical Marine. Inquisition is OP!

But it's like that down the line. Guardsmen even beat tac marines at CC.

Martel732 wrote:
But it's like that down the line. Guardsmen even beat tac marines at CC.

You can tell because three Guardsmen kills 0.16 marines and a Marine kills 0.3 guardsmen.

Oh wait.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it's like that down the line. Guardsmen even beat tac marines at CC.

You can tell because three Guardsmen kills 0.16 marines and a Marine kills 0.3 guardsmen.

Oh wait.

That means the guardsmen are winning.

Martel732 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it's like that down the line. Guardsmen even beat tac marines at CC.

You can tell because three Guardsmen kills 0.16 marines and a Marine kills 0.3 guardsmen.

Oh wait.

That means the guardsmen are winning.

Right, yes, because losing 2 for every one you kill is "winning" when your squad size is the same.

I can't wait to watch those -10 guardsmen consolidate over the corpses of those 10 marines they just won combat against by losing 20 of their number.

On a per point basis, which is all that really matters. Squad size certainly doesn't.

Martel732 wrote:
On a per point basis, which is all that really matters.

Oh right, points are all that matters. I forgot this was dakkadakka, where "strategic and tactical planning" and using your improved force concentration and better troops to achieve localized breakthroughs where the enemy cannot bring equivalent points to bear on your own troops because that requires literally 3 times as many models to squeeze into a space of your controlling is beaten because math, or something.

Got it.

Glad you got it. I play against 120 of these guys regularly so i think i have a good idea of how it works.

Martel732 wrote:
On a per point basis, which is all that really matters. Squad size certainly doesn't.

Yes, it does, because squads take up space on the table and smaller squads can control an engagement's location, thereby avoiding having equivalent points brought to bear upon them, and instead forcing an engagement between equivalent numbers of models rather than equivalent numbers of points.

Or is that too many tactics in one place for you?

Local superiority is almost impossible to achieve against ig in 8th ed if the ig player is competent. Even if a marine player wins the maneuvering battle, a wyvern strike quickly ends it. What you describe is possible in a vacuum, but not in context. Cheap long range los-ignoring weapons are the ultimate equalizer.

It's turning out that csm soup and bobbyg have answers, but other power armor does not.

JamesWright83 wrote:Hey guys, I’m wondering if you could let me know whether you think my Astra Militarum list is overpowered or not. I’ve played 8 games with them since the new Codex came out (all against experienced, good players) and have won all 8, with most being pretty one-sided. I don’t want my opponents to dislike playing me, or think that my army is overpowered - this list is everything I own, and is just the models and units I like rather than it being a purpose built list that is intended to be powerful.

1500 points (Battalion and Spearhead), previously Cadian but I’m now starting to use Valhallan.

Company Commander
Company Commander
Tank Commander in Punisher
Tank Commander in Standard Russ
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Scion Squad with meltas
Scout sentinel with heavy flamer
Hellhound
Manticore
Standard Russ
Demolisher Russ

Opponents have been Marines x3, Eldar x2, other Astra Militarum x2 and Chaos once.

Thanks

Your list is perfectly fine, you have a varied and interesting force that doesn't abuse any aspect of the game. Playing against that list is challenging and fun. Don't worry about your opponents, that's not the kind of list that ruins friendships, if after losing 8 games you haven't received negative feedback from them, it means they are having fun and are asking themselves what they did wrong.

Martel732 wrote:On a per point basis, which is all that really matters. Squad size certainly doesn't.

This topic is a dead horse without devolving into a who punch who. Some think that AM are fine, some don't (even after the long series of nerf they received). Stop, nothing more to discuss.

For the op, 4 russ hulls are very challenging for many lists to deal with. That might be part of the issue.

JamesWright83 wrote:
Hey guys, I’m wondering if you could let me know whether you think my Astra Militarum list is overpowered or not. I’ve played 8 games with them since the new Codex came out (all against experienced, good players) and have won all 8, with most being pretty one-sided. I don’t want my opponents to dislike playing me, or think that my army is overpowered - this list is everything I own, and is just the models and units I like rather than it being a purpose built list that is intended to be powerful.

1500 points (Battalion and Spearhead), previously Cadian but I’m now starting to use Valhallan.

Company Commander
Company Commander
Tank Commander in Punisher
Tank Commander in Standard Russ
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Infantry Squad with lascannon
Scion Squad with meltas
Scout sentinel with heavy flamer
Hellhound
Manticore
Standard Russ
Demolisher Russ

Opponents have been Marines x3, Eldar x2, other Astra Militarum x2 and Chaos once.

Thanks

This is pretty safely not OP. This list is very tame, and, at least as I see it, pretty straightforward to oppose. The key units here are the Scout Sentinel and Scions, and their careful positioning.



It's heavy on armor and strong on antitank, which is probably why others have problems. I've noticed a lot of people bring way, way to few AT guns in their lists. That's on them, not you.

It's very weak on infantry, and that's a weakness that's very easy to exploit to absolutely crush Imperial Guard lists. That's why the Sentinel and Scions are key, since they're picking up ground where the general shortage of infantry causes the list to fall short.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
It's heavy on armor and strong on antitank, which is probably why others have problems. I've noticed a lot of people bring way, way to few AT guns in their lists. That's on them, not you.

Weird, I keep getting told by guard players on this forum that we're loading up too much on anti-tank and not bringing enough anti-infantry. Starting to think having enough of both to actually kill what's in a guard list just isn't possible.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
It's heavy on armor and strong on antitank, which is probably why others have problems. I've noticed a lot of people bring way, way to few AT guns in their lists. That's on them, not you.

Weird, I keep getting told by guard players on this forum that we're loading up too much on anti-tank and not bringing enough anti-infantry. Starting to think having enough of both to actually kill what's in a guard list just isn't possible.

Well, his list literally has 30 infantrymen. That's like a record low on infantry for the Imperial Guard. It's highly skewed, and kind of hoping nobody gets cute and assaults his tanks, or that he can at least kill them before they do.

In this case, it's probably going to be very difficult to have "enough" antitank in your TAC list, since enough antitank to just outright out-blast this list will leave you too vulnerable to lists with normal amounts of infantry in them. That's sort of the point of all-tank [or all-infantry] lists for any faction. However, it has almost no assault screening, which is a huge vulnerability that's fairly easy to capitalize on.



Also, I still think a lot of the lists I see, at least in my local meta, are short on AT and unwilling to deal with tanks in ways other than "shoot it dead". I think it's generally safer to err on the side of having more AT than less.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it's like that down the line. Guardsmen even beat tac marines at CC.

You can tell because three Guardsmen kills 0.16 marines and a Marine kills 0.3 guardsmen.

Oh wait.

That means the guardsmen are winning.

Right, yes, because losing 2 for every one you kill is "winning" when your squad size is the same.

I can't wait to watch those -10 guardsmen consolidate over the corpses of those 10 marines they just won combat against by losing 20 of their number.

Youre joking right? That's absolutely how guard works, because I can lose 20 guardsmen to your 10 Marines, then have the last 10 grab the objective because I pay 1/3 of what a marine player pays for his squads. There is never just one infantry squad, there will be many. There will never be just one Russ, there will be three.

This is IG 101, you win by weight of numbers and averages. People will try and make dumb trades all day along the exact same logic you're using, that you're killing more models than I am. Then you wonder where your army went turn and why I'm still advancing even though I've lost twice as many models as you

To OP your army isn't OP in the sense it would crush a tournament, but it's definitely powerful for a casual environment at most stores. I often run lists along similar lines and do quite well. If you find you're doing "too well", the best thing to do is pick something you think looks cool and build a dumb list around it, or try Fielding models you don't normally bring. For example, I'm taking grenade launcher and heavy weapon squads again. They're not quite as powerful but good enough and it helps tone a list down. Maybe cut down on tank commanders to take more regular russe's too.

You can also try new army traits. Mordians are fun but still have quite good infantry (their strategem and order are insane) tallarn are very mobile, vostroyan has some cool elite tricks to it, and Valhallan dispenses firepower for durability. If you find games going easily and can't really tweak your list much, you could switch up regiment traits to one that would be more difficult to win with in your area and see how that does.

Alternatively, play maelstrom or narrative type missions. Stuff like last stands, forlorn hope assaults, planetstrike, etc. Narrative missions can be tweaked a bit for handicapping one side or the other, say doing a last stand where you just hold the center but the opponents models respawn, or an assault where you give the opponent free fortifications and terrain. If even that is difficult, try recruiting a GM and running games the old fashioned way, with an impartial GM dictating the flow of battle, random events, 3rd parties getting involved, etc. Could be a good change of pace.

The obvious choice of course is to just take a "bad list" but that gets old after a while.

If you want more of a challenge, just turn up and play with about 100-200pts less than your opponent. They'll not even notice unless you draw attention to it, and it means you can try out the strongest stuff and still get a balanced game

Your list doesn't sound OP at all. You're not even playing the most brutal Leman Russ buffs avalaible (Cadians with Pask or Catachans with Harker). The Valhallan vehicle trait is okay-ish, but strictly inferior to both Cadia and Catachan. The Valhallan infanrty doctrine shines best with large infantry hordes, which you don't have. So your doctrine of choice is firmy in "not-OP" territory.

I'm wondering why you would need 2 Company Commanders for 3 infantry squads, at least one of which will be gone by turn 2.
Scout Sentinel will be toast the moment your enemy takes a look at it. I take it its only usage is hiding behind cover, denying deepstrike and maybe grabbing an Objective here and there?
One piece of long-range artillery is very tame for Astra Militarum standards. Personally, I like to take at least two Basilisks.
You're taking a mid-tier Scion special weapon (the best one is obviously Plasma) and no Tempestors, I'm not seeing OP here either. If you want the regimental doctrine you'll have to kick the Scions to a different detachement though.
4 Leman Russ don't sound too bad either. Taking one Punisher and one Demolisher means you're versatile against both GEQs and MEQs, but not overkill against either. Against a shooty army, even Leman Russes tend to go down quickly. I played a 1500 against shooty Raven Guard with 3 LRs last weekend....and all of them bit the dust by the end of the game.

Thanks for the confirmation guys. I didn’t think it was an OP list, but wanted to check.

A slightly different question then - would you find this a fun list to play against, or would you find it frustrating and not want to fight it again?

ThePorcupine wrote:
Can't tell if sarcasm, Marmatag.

Don't listen to them. I'm gonna blow your mind. Guard are not overpowered. Artillery is not overpowered. Scions are not overpowered.

Your list looks totally fine. Lots of vehicles. Vulnerable to alpha strikes from sisters, nids, what have you. Vulnerable to a few well-placed lascannon shots. Vulnerable to just straight up being locked in combat.

^^ This


Most people calling AM OP are lacking basic creativity


Your list is too heavy on vehicles, a simple Devastator drop together with Lias Issodon would cripple you on turn one


A horde of Cultists + several Daemon princes and supporting stuff would leave very little chance for you to win and 0 chance if it's return of the living dead pox walkers


Tyranids with a 1st turn charge


Tzeentch demons coupled with Obliterators from Alpha Legion




You have a pretty good list, but by no means an OP one, if you'd participate in a tourney in my local area with that I'd say you'd be top 10 material, but I doubt you'd cut top5