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I usually build my biker squads as MSU, with plasma on every model. But while making a 2k points list for this week, I had points left over and decided to give my army some fast attack. I've already got all the tools to deal with heavy models, but Plasma seems like an all-comers tool anyhow.

That being said, would it be more cost effective to bring 3 Plasma Bikers, or 4 Bolter Bikers? (The Champion taking just a second Combi Bolter). Tic for tac, it would be more shots backed up with rerolling 1's from an HQ, but would it still just be plain worth it to take Plasma for the Str and -AP?

 vaklor4 wrote:
I usually build my biker squads as MSU, with plasma on every model. But while making a 2k points list for this week, I had points left over and decided to give my army some fast attack. I've already got all the tools to deal with heavy models, but Plasma seems like an all-comers tool anyhow.

That being said, would it be more cost effective to bring 3 Plasma Bikers, or 4 Bolter Bikers? (The Champion taking just a second Combi Bolter). Tic for tac, it would be more shots backed up with rerolling 1's from an HQ, but would it still just be plain worth it to take Plasma for the Str and -AP?

You're comparing:

Rapid Fire 7 Bolter
Rapid Fire 2 Plasma

VS

Rapid Fire 9 Bolter


In terms of stopping power if you're targetting anything 3+ bolters are doing very little


In any case - Plasma wins hands down, unless you plan using the bikes to quickly charge something and tie them down, in that case 4 > 3

I love biker models (used to run white scars back in 5th and 6th), but they are sadly very weak this edition.

Loosing jink for +1 wound was a horrible exchange.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love biker models (used to run white scars back in 5th and 6th), but they are sadly very weak this edition.

Loosing jink for +1 wound was a horrible exchange.

Yeah, honestly they're just not very good. Double PP Vanguard vets with Shrike or a libby would probably be better.

Plasma does a lot more damage. The extra guy adds some more survivability.

The extra guy would only really make sense if you already had something in the squad to protect - like Plasma Guns (or a combi or CC sarge - not that a CC sarge is competitive).

At their current points, SM Bikes don't seem competitive to me, but if you plan on taking bikes, I'd suggest the PGs over the extra body. Unless you really like assaulting with them, and have plenty of firepower elsewhere.

I run 2 3 man bike squads at 1k; 2 plas/stormbolter, or 2 melta / stormbolter. They are noticeably faster and more maneuverable than jump packs, and the sergeant makes for an ablative model who still has plenty of shots. They have always performed admirably, but we play Maelstrom exclusively so the maneuverability is important.

Seems like plasma wins! And yeah, by no means are bikers something I EVER build around. I play a Khorne army, so theyre a really good way for me to get some longer range fire support for the melee bulk I bring, since they can put out a ridiculous amount of shots.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love biker models (used to run white scars back in 5th and 6th), but they are sadly very weak this edition.

Loosing jink for +1 wound was a horrible exchange.

T5 and 2 wounds isn't terrible and they have up to a 20" move. If someone wants to take them on they'll need middle range weapons, which diverts those shots away from tanks. And if they don't then they've got bikes up in their face - especially if they're Dark Raiders.

jumppacks are a bit cheaper, and though bikes are more maneuverable on the table, they cant deepstrike with melta.

In this edition, cheaper guys that can do more alpha are the meta. Bikes are excellent if your opponent decides he has better targets to shoot at, which is very rare in my experience.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
jumppacks are a bit cheaper, and though bikes are more maneuverable on the table, they cant deepstrike with melta.

In this edition, cheaper guys that can do more alpha are the meta. Bikes are excellent if your opponent decides he has better targets to shoot at, which is very rare in my experience.

With all the bubble wrap out there it's a bit of a toss up depending on the army you face.

Another option is scout bikes as they come with shotguns and twin linked boltguns. Give sarge a stormbolter or keep the stock shotgun.

This will give you 6 S4 per model at 12", and 4 S4 and 2 S5 at 6". They are slightly cheaper to boot.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love biker models (used to run white scars back in 5th and 6th), but they are sadly very weak this edition.

Loosing jink for +1 wound was a horrible exchange.

To be fair, Jink, as an overall mechanic, was never one that quite worked right or balanced well. Of the platforms that could Jink, most either didn't care about the shooting downsides because shooting wasn't what they were about, or had gobs of shots and/or twin linked weapons to still get something out of their shooting, or both, and Bikers in were generally dramatically overcapable relative to infantry counterparts for what they paid in 7E.

That said, yeah I think they swung too far this edition, most anything you'd have used Jink for will ignore that 2nd wound, instead of being 27ppm they should probably be more like 22.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love biker models (used to run white scars back in 5th and 6th), but they are sadly very weak this edition.

Loosing jink for +1 wound was a horrible exchange.

To be fair, Jink, as an overall mechanic, was never one that quite worked right or balanced well. Of the platforms that could Jink, most either didn't care about the shooting downsides because shooting wasn't what they were about, or had gobs of shots and/or twin linked weapons to still get something out of their shooting, or both, and Bikers in were generally dramatically overcapable relative to infantry counterparts for what they paid in 7E.

That said, yeah I think they swung too far this edition, most anything you'd have used Jink for will ignore that 2nd wound, instead of being 27ppm they should probably be more like 22.

To be even more fair, jink was actually ravenwing special rule that got muddied when it became universal rule for bikes/jetbikes/skimmers.

I have not used bikes in this edition, and haven't for a long time, but I was mulling the idea of maybe two flamers and a combi-flamer. 3D6 auto hits could be good against a lot of chaff units. I don't know if the OP has any flamer bikes, but this seems like it might be good. Anyone try it?

I planned on using my bikes as object takers or flankers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skchsan wrote:
Another option is scout bikes as they come with shotguns and twin linked boltguns. Give sarge a stormbolter or keep the stock shotgun.

This will give you 6 S4 per model at 12", and 4 S4 and 2 S5 at 6". They are slightly cheaper to boot.

Chaos doesn't get scout bikes.

 xeen wrote:
I have not used bikes in this edition, and haven't for a long time, but I was mulling the idea of maybe two flamers and a combi-flamer. 3D6 auto hits could be good against a lot of chaff units. I don't know if the OP has any flamer bikes, but this seems like it might be good. Anyone try it?

Flamers are overpriced trash. A storm bolter is better, cheaper, more reliable and deadlier at range.

You will get about 8 hits at 12 inches with storm bolters, for only 6 points. A single flamer costs more than this and theee flamers will only barely get more hits on average while costing substantially more. There is no reason to ever take a flamer. They can’t overwatch most important charges, and they give barely any reward for getting close. They’re made for killing single model characters, but are horrible at being allowed to kill characters. As an anti-hoard weapon they’re also equally middling for the price when other alternatives are so much better. Also, flamers can’t be used from deepstrike.

Flamers are too expensive and have no role in the game. If they cost 2 points, they’d be useable.