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 Infantryman wrote:

Bharring wrote:We spend nearly 2 decades being useless to society, but have a lifespan approaching a century.

Only because of social convention - by the time you're 4 or 5, you can actually work. It's just illegal to.

M.

This.

Still, not far from the total lifetime of a dog or cat. Well in excess of a Goldfish.

Iracundus wrote:
From the first Necron Codex, from the POV of the Alaitoc Farseer Alladrios Kulcassian:

Long ago, before the Fall, the Mon-keigh were nothing. They were comical tree-beasts, part of the eco-system of their world, but with no greater role defined for them by the Old Ones. That was before the God War between the C'tan-led Necrons and the Old Ones, supported by their successor races, had almost consumed the galaxy. In the aftermath of the conflict many worlds were devastated and it took time to rebuild them. In this power vacuum, the lesser creations of the Old Ones, such as the Mon-keigh, developed in unforseeable ways. Raw, elemental evolution took a hold, turning these noisy but harmless beasts into the life form that now infested a million worlds. The Eldar had let them be, perhaps they were reluctant to harm what little life remained...

p. 9, first Necron Codex

The details there have not to my knowledge been directly retconned even with the new Necrons. So the basic situation still holds: a devastated galaxy, and the Eldar (and Orks) inheriting the aftermath. This would have been in the era before the Eldar became decadent, so reverence for the traditional Eldar gods and the ideals they represented such as Isha (nature and fertility) and Kurnous (untamed nature and wilderness) may have led the Eldar to let things be, though with the unspoken understanding of the Eldar being on the top of the food chain.

Interesting note. I wonder what the Eldar relations were with the Orks.

 Frazzled wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
From the first Necron Codex, from the POV of the Alaitoc Farseer Alladrios Kulcassian:

Long ago, before the Fall, the Mon-keigh were nothing. They were comical tree-beasts, part of the eco-system of their world, but with no greater role defined for them by the Old Ones. That was before the God War between the C'tan-led Necrons and the Old Ones, supported by their successor races, had almost consumed the galaxy. In the aftermath of the conflict many worlds were devastated and it took time to rebuild them. In this power vacuum, the lesser creations of the Old Ones, such as the Mon-keigh, developed in unforseeable ways. Raw, elemental evolution took a hold, turning these noisy but harmless beasts into the life form that now infested a million worlds. The Eldar had let them be, perhaps they were reluctant to harm what little life remained...

p. 9, first Necron Codex

The details there have not to my knowledge been directly retconned even with the new Necrons. So the basic situation still holds: a devastated galaxy, and the Eldar (and Orks) inheriting the aftermath. This would have been in the era before the Eldar became decadent, so reverence for the traditional Eldar gods and the ideals they represented such as Isha (nature and fertility) and Kurnous (untamed nature and wilderness) may have led the Eldar to let things be, though with the unspoken understanding of the Eldar being on the top of the food chain.

Interesting note. I wonder what the Eldar relations were with the Orks.

I know the Orks are stated as being 'easily kept in check' by the Eldar Empire, which suggests that they were just as warlike and antagonistic then as they are now. Could well be a warped remembering of actual interspecies relations, skewed by the warlike setting that 40k finds itself in.

An neat little connection I thought of between the eldar and the orks is that they are the only two confirmed major species (Jokaero don't exactly count as major) to have been uplifted/created by the Old Ones. Seeing as I reckon a fair amount of the eldar's arrogance is the absolute certainty they were created exactly the way they were by their Gods whereas other species only happened upon their forms by chance, I'd expect at least some eldar to take a philosophical liking to orks as well.

That's borne out somewhat by this quote:

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude - Uthan the Perverse

The Old Ones created the Koruk (sp?), not the Ork.

If anything, that might lead to disdain or disappointment on the part of the Eldar.

I do like the concept of (at least some) Eldar as seeing Orkz as a part of their "garden". Orks are the great antibody of the galaxy, increasing their response to any aggression they face.

Except for the recent threats (IoM, Chaos post-Heresy, reawakened Necrons, incomming Hive Fleets), Orks do a great job of making it hard for an upstart species to start conquering solar systems. Go to far, you run into Orks. Run into Orks, and they fight you. Fight Orks, and you have more Orks on your hands.

Perhaps the Eldar recognized the Ork's place in the galaxy, and saw them as one more tool used to maintain it?

Bharring wrote:
The Old Ones created the Koruk (sp?), not the Ork.

The Krork are are the Orks. There is a fluff text from 3rd Edi where the Deceiver is having a conversation with a Tech-Priest and tells him that he couldn't imagine his surprise when he woke up after millions of years and found "humankind and the Krork everywhere in the galaxy".

My understanding is that Krork "evolved" or "devolved" into Orkz, in that they aren't the same thing - was that retconned?

Bharring wrote:
My understanding is that Krork "evolved" or "devolved" into Orkz, in that they aren't the same thing - was that retconned?

Well, the Deceiver called the 40.000 present-day race "Krork".
The way I understand it, GW combined the old 2nd Edi fluff about the Brainboyz - the original creators of Orkkind in Orkish legend - with the 3rd Edi Necron fluff. In 2nd Edi, the Brainboyz were the Snotlings' super-intelligent ancestors. In newer fluff, the Brainboyz were/are apparently the Old Ones.

Bharring wrote:
The Old Ones created the Koruk (sp?), not the Ork.

If anything, that might lead to disdain or disappointment on the part of the Eldar.

I do like the concept of (at least some) Eldar as seeing Orkz as a part of their "garden". Orks are the great antibody of the galaxy, increasing their response to any aggression they face.

Except for the recent threats (IoM, Chaos post-Heresy, reawakened Necrons, incomming Hive Fleets), Orks do a great job of making it hard for an upstart species to start conquering solar systems. Go to far, you run into Orks. Run into Orks, and they fight you. Fight Orks, and you have more Orks on your hands.

Perhaps the Eldar recognized the Ork's place in the galaxy, and saw them as one more tool used to maintain it?

In the Path of the Eldar they seem to recognize them as something you hardly can eradicate for sure and their solution seems to avoid direct confrontation from them as much as posible.

They hint best way to deal with Orks it's weaking their leaders and let they crush each other, as there is a moment when they refer to the human act to battle straight away them a way to make the trouble much worse.


About the ynnari commorrites use of torture if i'm not mistaken they no longer need to torture/feed on others pains and emotions in order to starve Slaanesh and remain young but that doesn't mean they just totally ceased to perform such acts.

Lord Perversor wrote:

Bharring wrote:
The Old Ones created the Koruk (sp?), not the Ork.

If anything, that might lead to disdain or disappointment on the part of the Eldar.

I do like the concept of (at least some) Eldar as seeing Orkz as a part of their "garden". Orks are the great antibody of the galaxy, increasing their response to any aggression they face.

Except for the recent threats (IoM, Chaos post-Heresy, reawakened Necrons, incomming Hive Fleets), Orks do a great job of making it hard for an upstart species to start conquering solar systems. Go to far, you run into Orks. Run into Orks, and they fight you. Fight Orks, and you have more Orks on your hands.

Perhaps the Eldar recognized the Ork's place in the galaxy, and saw them as one more tool used to maintain it?

In the Path of the Eldar they seem to recognize them as something you hardly can eradicate for sure and their solution seems to avoid direct confrontation from them as much as posible.

They hint best way to deal with Orks it's weaking their leaders and let they crush each other, as there is a moment when they refer to the human act to battle straight away them a way to make the trouble much worse.


About the ynnari commorrites use of torture if i'm not mistaken they no longer need to torture/feed on others pains and emotions in order to starve Slaanesh and remain young but that doesn't mean they just totally ceased to perform such acts.

They have a point. Going straight into battle with Orks is pretty much what they want seeing as Orks live for war.

We know fabius bile spend some time with the haemuncolies.