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Honestly, what I liked about 40k is that everything is happening after the cool guys all died. Everyone is just going by old codes that don't mean anything anymore and just trying to survive. 30k was for the guys who wanted all the cool guys while 40k was for the dudes who wanted nobodies. Now 40k has so many strong heros coming back what is the point? Everyone now has a real physical reason to fight rather than just doing it because of tradition (which was what i felt 40k was trying to say...).

GW have largely lost me with the fluff updates in recent years.

As people have said - its reached that point where they are clearly happy to retcon anything and as a result its impossible to invest much feeling in the setting. Characters, planets and whole factions live, die, have victories or defeats and all of it can be rendered irrelevant almost on the next page.

That is if anything happens at all. I mean RG has been alive... 9-10 months, and as far as I can see the fluff consequences have been negligible: "Here are the Primaris, pls buy".

So if they bring back Sanguinius and the fluff is that he broods on Baal from now until 2030... it doesn't really bother me.

 John Prins wrote:
WH40K is no better written than any comic book fiction, and they have people coming back from the dead all the time. Bring back the Primarchs. Heck, bring back the Emperor while you're at it. It doesn't matter as long as there's drama. It's the drama that sells.

But Uncle Ben stays dead.

 Fafnir wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
WH40K is no better written than any comic book fiction, and they have people coming back from the dead all the time. Bring back the Primarchs. Heck, bring back the Emperor while you're at it. It doesn't matter as long as there's drama. It's the drama that sells.

But Uncle Ben stays dead.

And Jason Todd. Until 2005, when they revived him as Red Hood.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
yes he did help his father, he fought and died for him, creating a chink in Horus's armour (I think this is an analogy for "doubt" not a literal rip in his armour).

And I also prefer the lone guardsman fighting against all odds.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough; where does this bit about Sanguinius helping the Emperor come from? As I said, the most recent version of the story I'm aware of says no such thing (I already quoted the only mention of Sanguinius on Horus' ship) and had a Custodes be the one interrupt the duel. Where is this changed back to Ollanius Pius, and where did the idea that Sanguinius opened a weak spot (real or metaphorical) in Horus' armour come from?

I'm not saying you're wrong; just that I'm not familiar with it, and I want to see the source material. As it stands, going by the material I'm familiar with, the presence or otherwise of Sanguinius, and his death or survival, would have little or no effect on the end of the Heresy.

The Blood Angels codex, not sure if its in the new one but it was in the 4th Ed one and possibly 5th, havent read any of them since then.


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 Arachnofiend wrote:

Davor wrote:

Iron_Captain wrote: To maintain a degree of equality all SM codices must have access to a Primarch, and Sanguinius is the only Primarch the BA have.

I am not saying you are wrong, just that I don't understand this "degree of equality". Why just Space Marines? How about all the other races. Shouldn't they have an equivalent as well? Now that would be equal. Story wise we don't need it, but play wise especially Match Play wise, everyone should have an option that is equal to Robute.

I actually agree that other, non-space marine factions should get primarch equivalents. I want to see the Silent King on the table.

OH HELL YES!!!!

since Guilliman dropped I have thought this too, I WISH that Abbadon had been the Chaos version myself, the Deamon Primarchs have really overshadowed poor old abbadabbdon :/

 Melissia wrote:

Lord Kragan wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
So I talked with someone who actually watched the devstream, and the way they explained it, the "Sanguinius is alive!" thing is wrong.

Sanguinius is dead. Deader than dead. His body is in stasis, never reaching rigor mortis and never rotting-- but he's still dead. People are taking the "his body is in stasis" thing out of context and assuming this means he's the same as Guilliman.

Shush, don't dare meddle in people's process into throwing a chimpout over already imagined and solved grievances originated from some austrian's poor grasp of the english language!

I know I know I know, inserting logic in to an emotional, irrational argument is bad.

Such condescending attitude is almost adorable, but we are indeed witnessing a loss of the "magic" of the old day with this quasi-pornographic chase and representation of every detail, and obsession with the Named Characters.
The fact that the game is subjected to a progressive "warmachinisation" due to the greater and greater emphasis toward specific characters and less over "your dudes" is under the eyes of everyone as well.

So yeah, Sanguinuis is in the air you can bet on it. In some form or another. For the simple reason that its model will make money.
And ultimately, us, the players, are responsible of the murder of the fluff.
There was a place for primarchs in the Heresy but that apparently not enough.

 Tamwulf wrote:
=Chapter Masters have been reduced to "barely above Captains", while the IG have no serious characters at all! It's been so bad for the IG that they had to resurrect Sly Marbo and give him Chapter Master stats!

With the due respect, I find statements like this infuriating for two reasons
I) There is no reason for the SM to get a bigger character other than "space marines should have all the best and possible options". We already had a travesty of a thread recently showing the usual marine player entitlement. Is this the case once more? Should IG get a Hive Tyrant HQ choice, because reasons?
CSM get princes, obliteratos and such because do not get a lot of fancy stuff like Speeders, LR variants, and all the circus.
II) A Daemon Primarch is not the size of a Demon Prince. Say "We need primarchs because [normal] Daemon Princes" is absolutely fallacious. Is a complete nonsense.
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lolman1c wrote:
Honestly, what I liked about 40k is that everything is happening after the cool guys all died. Everyone is just going by old codes that don't mean anything anymore and just trying to survive. 30k was for the guys who wanted all the cool guys while 40k was for the dudes who wanted nobodies. Now 40k has so many strong heros coming back what is the point? Everyone now has a real physical reason to fight rather than just doing it because of tradition (which was what i felt 40k was trying to say...).

This. You nailed perfectly.

 Fafnir wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
WH40K is no better written than any comic book fiction, and they have people coming back from the dead all the time. Bring back the Primarchs. Heck, bring back the Emperor while you're at it. It doesn't matter as long as there's drama. It's the drama that sells.

But Uncle Ben stays dead.

But not Jason Todd or Bucky Barnes. Or even Gwen Stacy. The point is, that if the authors feel the need, they'll resurrect anyone.

 John Prins wrote:

But not Jason Todd or Bucky Barnes. Or even Gwen Stacy. The point is, that if the authors feel they have to squeeze more money from an undead franchise and beat a dead horse, they'll resurrect anyone.

Well, trust GW to cheapen a major plot point, while giving the daddy issue marines no reason for their bad attitudes. Bunch of spoiled brats, give back the stolen predator.

 John Prins wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
WH40K is no better written than any comic book fiction, and they have people coming back from the dead all the time. Bring back the Primarchs. Heck, bring back the Emperor while you're at it. It doesn't matter as long as there's drama. It's the drama that sells.

But Uncle Ben stays dead.

But not Jason Todd or Bucky Barnes. Or even Gwen Stacy. The point is, that if the authors feel the need, they'll resurrect anyone.

Except in the case of the characters you mentioned, they were characters that existed independently of their deaths before then, even if they were ultimately defined in comic-book canon by them. Uncle Ben, like Sanguinius is a character who, from the very beginning, only existed to die for the purposes of providing motivation for events to come. Gwen Stacy coming back to life doesn't defeat Spider-man's entire reason for being. Uncle Ben would.

 Torga_DW wrote:

Yeah, that all makes sense.... *if* you ignore the money that a primarily models-based company could make on bringing back a model of one of *the* most badass, noble, relatable characters you could ever create! Hell, i would buy a sanguinius model (as long as it didn't have a potato for a face) and i'm actively boycotting gw until they get their game (sh*t) together. Your problem is focusing on the story, when there are profits to be made.

People that buy GW models aren’t stashing a piggy bank full of cash in case a Sanguinius model comes out. They spend that money anyway. Sure, if his model was released some people would buy it, but that same money would be spent at GW regardless. And futhermore, for every person who brings him to the tabletop there will be 10 people groaning and wincing about it. They would get “That Guy” designations by everyone except those who don’t give a feth about the story, ie the players who aren’t typically fun opponents

Also, if “profits are to be made”, we can all start speculating on the future release of the 2nd and 11th legions and Primarchs. C’mon man

 Formosa wrote:

Yes and no, for me its the fluff that keeps me playing this game a good example of that is the novel The Betrayer, after that book I went out and dropped a lot of money bucks on a HH world eaters army, others play the game first and then go for the fluff, and yet again another set of people have no real interest in the fluff outside of the codex's, were a varied bunch.

This guy gets it. People who see this as nothing more than pushing plastic across the table are robbing themselves of the full experience. Their choice, surely, but I for one wouldn’t have dropped thousands of dollars on this if it were nothing more than a really expensive and complicated game of chess. The story is the bedrock and without it I don’t think 40k as a tabletop game would exist.

I also bought 20 mk iii Marines, dark apostle, exalted champion, and two rhinos because of Betrayer. Even if you don’t buy the soft backs, you must acknowledge fluff sells models

A conceit of the 40k universe is that everything you're told is a lie, but everyone wants to believe what they read is written in stone. Every story or fact should be considered suspect, Kind of like how you guys view GW's motives.

I too must jump on the bandwagon of 'Get your 30k out of my 40k!'

I've not read the books. I've not played the games. I don't enjoy or want anything to do with the HH aside from as a suitably vague piece of background fluff that exists as a legend about the founding of the Imperium.

I totally get I'm in a minority, and I've got not issues with the existance of the HH setting rules and books and people doing whatever they like with it. But 40k is a different setting, and the differences in that setting are now being rapidly eroded by GW shoving things over without any good reason.

Sure, make Bobby G and sell Bobby G. Good for you model company. But why when you've got a perfectly good 30k setting to shove him in, does he need to be in 40k? And suddenly why does all the other primarchs? It's not like I can even get away from him, because he's on the tabletop every bloody game...

I mean they said on the stream this is from that he is dead, it is merely his body in stasis. He's not coming back, get over yourselves.

What about the Sangunior? I always thought he was the spiritual embodiment of Sanguinius.

I reckon the Prim(arch) candiates for return are the lion, Russ and the dude that disappeared into the web way, that's your four to stand against the daemon Primarchs of the pantheon and will probably be getting released in 2018 (Angron and Fulgrim).

Now there have been a few cases of primarchs being cloned, for instance Ferrus Manus for Fulgrim to keep chopping his head off and did Fabius clone Horus as well?

As an emperors children player I'm ambivalent to primarch releases apart from Fulgrim who will be getting pre-ordered the moment it drops.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I mean they said on the stream this is from that he is dead, it is merely his body in stasis. He's not coming back, get over yourselves.

You can probably save your breath. It's been pointed out three or four times in this thread that this is a mass freakout over absolutely nothing, but people just don't seem to be registering it. It's a good demonstration of clickbait in action.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
A conceit of the 40k universe is that everything you're told is a lie, but everyone wants to believe what they read is written in stone. Every story or fact should be considered suspect, Kind of like how you guys view GW's motives.

Ironically that statement is also a lie, we have a lot of books from a first person perspective so they are more reliable as you are "in there head" the only lies are the ones they tell themselves, then you have the general overview books with survivor stories/winner perspective (Taros campaign is a good one for this), these are not so reliable, then you have pure propaganda (codex's) from the perspective of Imperials usually and are not to be trusted, so unreliable, in that same bunch you have the "historical" lookbacks that come out in various books, all of this is true and therefore a lie!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I too must jump on the bandwagon of 'Get your 30k out of my 40k!'

I've not read the books. I've not played the games. I don't enjoy or want anything to do with the HH aside from as a suitably vague piece of background fluff that exists as a legend about the founding of the Imperium.

I totally get I'm in a minority, and I've got not issues with the existance of the HH setting rules and books and people doing whatever they like with it. But 40k is a different setting, and the differences in that setting are now being rapidly eroded by GW shoving things over without any good reason.

Sure, make Bobby G and sell Bobby G. Good for you model company. But why when you've got a perfectly good 30k setting to shove him in, does he need to be in 40k? And suddenly why does all the other primarchs? It's not like I can even get away from him, because he's on the tabletop every bloody game...

30k has better fluff, better models (very subjective I know), much much better primarch models (this one is not subjective, just compare mr potato head with his 30k version) and I agree the Primarchs should stay there, but I am also one of those people that wants Primarines to be wiped from the fluff, like the models though.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I wouldn't call that pivotal seeing as if he doesn't do that things don't change much.

It defines the setting well but pivotal it is not.

Seeing what Horus did to Sanguinius is what gets the Emperor to take off the gloves and actually finish Horus. Without that it's quite possible that Horus kills the Emperor. No warp travel for humans, no keeping the broken portal in the basement closed so terra is now the centre of another eye of terror. The Imperium no longer exists. Pretty pivotal.

No it's not. That's Ollanius Pius. Sanguinius was a floor decoration.

"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

I love HH as much as the next person, but seriously. Keep your 30K out of my 40K.

There's no reason to have Primarchs in 40K. Thats not what this setting is about. This is the aftermath, the downward spiral into madness and destruction.

Kill the Primarchs, Kill Primaris Marines and Kill all hope.

Sanguinius better stay fething dead.

Kiarn wrote:
What about the Sangunior? I always thought he was the spiritual embodiment of Sanguinius.

I reckon the Prim(arch) candiates for return are the lion, Russ and the dude that disappeared into the web way, that's your four to stand against the daemon Primarchs of the pantheon and will probably be getting released in 2018 (Angron and Fulgrim).

Now there have been a few cases of primarchs being cloned, for instance Ferrus Manus for Fulgrim to keep chopping his head off and did Fabius clone Horus as well?

As an emperors children player I'm ambivalent to primarch releases apart from Fulgrim who will be getting pre-ordered the moment it drops.

There are six daemon primarchs. Angron, Fulgrim, Magnus and Mortarion are all devoted to a specific god. Perturabo doesn't really care about the gods and Lorgar somehow serves them all.

The surviving (or presumed to be surviving) Loyalist primarchs are Lion El'Jonson (sleeping in the rock), Leman Russ (leading the wulfen against chaos, maybe), the resurrected Roboute Guilliman (currently ruling the IoM), Jaghatai Khan (presumed to be in the dark eldars custody), Corvus Corax (went off into the EoT seeking death or forgiveness for what he had done). A few wild cards, early fluff has Rogal Dorn as dead as a doornail, but it was changed so only his hands were found. Another possible one is Vulkan, who is a perpetual (wolverine style immortal), and while he died in beast arises he never let getting killed keep him down before.

Dead primarchs are Ferrus Manus, one of the primarchs could have survived decapitation, but unfortunately for ol' Ferrus Mannus that was Vulkan and not him. Konrad Kurze killed by imperial assassins, more like suicide by assassins but close enough. Alpharius was killed by two primarchs in a melee, and we have some old fluff that omegon (having taken on the mantle of alpharius) was killed by by Roboute Guilliman. Horus got his soul destroyed by the emperor, so he is amongst the deadest of the dead. Finally Sanguinius who was killed by Horus, whose sacrifice supposedly enabled the emperor to win against Horus with the power of all four chaos gods backing him.

Honorable mention for near primarch levels of badassery go to Luther, who fought the lion in single combat. Sanguinor who appears to be a psychic manifestation of sanguinius. Mephiston, an alpha level psyker who recovered from the black rage (sort of, it's complicated). Abaddon, who was already the mightiest space marine in the lunar wolves (possibly the mightiest space marine full stop), and since becoming the champion of chaos undivided could undoubtedly go toe to toe with a primarch. Ianus who is kind of sort of an uncorrupted version of Magnus. Several members of the custodes. I mention these guys because they don't need to go retconning cornerstone events to get new Grade A bad asses for table top, they have a ton of them in lore.

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

There's things getting distorted and there's just making up propaganda.

pm713 wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

There's things getting distorted and there's just making up propaganda.

Gonna go down swinging are we?

Just like Sanguinius.

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

There's things getting distorted and there's just making up propaganda.

Gonna go down swinging are we?

Just like Sanguinius.

I'd give up, they seem to have some deep set dislike of Sanguinius that goes beyond a discussion of the fluff somehow.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I love HH as much as the next person, but seriously. Keep your 30K out of my 40K.

There's no reason to have Primarchs in 40K. Thats not what this setting is about. This is the aftermath, the downward spiral into madness and destruction.

Kill the Primarchs, Kill Primaris Marines and Kill all hope.

Sanguinius better stay fething dead.

I totally agree with you... but...

Dudeface wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

There's things getting distorted and there's just making up propaganda.

Gonna go down swinging are we?

Just like Sanguinius.

I'd give up, they seem to have some deep set dislike of Sanguinius that goes beyond a discussion of the fluff somehow.

I feel like the reverse. People are so into Sanguinius him not being the amazing best Primarch is inconceviable.

pm713 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Ruin wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

10,000 years ago.

Longer. Than. Recorded. Human. History. So. Far.

Of bloody course things are going to get distorted, or do we know in our own world in minute detail what happened in 8000BC?

There's things getting distorted and there's just making up propaganda.

Gonna go down swinging are we?

Just like Sanguinius.

I'd give up, they seem to have some deep set dislike of Sanguinius that goes beyond a discussion of the fluff somehow.

I feel like the reverse. People are so into Sanguinius him not being the amazing best Primarch is inconceviable.

And a large part of that is due to his sacrifice. Don't you get it, Sanguinius wouldn't be so cool if he wasn't the self-sacrificed Martyr that the Imperium knows him as.

pm713 wrote:

Nurgle's Bacon wrote:
"The Primarch's sacrifice is thought to have kept Horus occupied long enough for the Emperor to reach the Arch-Traitor in the very depths of his lair. When the Emperor at last entered Horus' sanctum, he found the rebellious Warmaster standing above Sanguinius' broken, bleeding corpse. In the battle that followed, Horus was finally vanquished, though the Emperor had also been mortally wounded and was near to death. There are many tales told of this final battle and, though the exact facts are long lost, one detail holds through all the recitations of the millennia since. Despite the Emperor's great power, he could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armour, and because of this, the Blood Angels claim him to be the greatest of all Primarchs."

Some floor decoration.

In no way does that sound like propaganda. Bits of your armour missing don't affect psychic powers and Horus wanted to fight the Emperor so they were going to fight anyway.

Except it's been mentioned elsewhere physical contact is required for the soul destroying attack. Which is why Emperor was saved by the ork warlord by Horus. It's not just deus-ex-machine attack that can be activated at will.