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Played Chaos since 2nd edition.

The highs of 3.5 have passed, the lows of every other edition up to and including 7th have dwindled and now we are allegedly in a good place.

So, I haven't even read let alone purchased the 8th CSM codex as I have lost all interest. I tried kicking off my R&H again to keep the Dark Gods appeased and practically fell off my chair when I read the IA:Index, what a half-assed job FW did.

I enjoy playing armies which are a challenge, whether requiring an advanced understanding of how to use them or because their rules are just 'infernus detritus'.

Does anyone else want CSM to go back to the whipping boy days? Let me clarify, that does not include the constant whinge-fest that this forum was with CSM players and their oceans of salty tears - which at times I was one.

In addition, I also partially attribute my new found CSM apathy came about after the seemingly endless Plaugemarine release, talk about flogging a deceased equine creature - and they are still not finished!

Myself being a 4th Ed chaos player. I actually like the new codex. 8th brought me back to the game after several years away. Granted I was a bit disappointed with the index at first, not having many options for customization. Then I saw the other indexes and it didn't worry me so much, nobody had options. The codex fixed most of what I wanted. I do wish the defiler was better, and the land raider was a tad cheaper. But everything else is fine.

I don't understand what you're getting at.

We have legion rules back.
We have heresy era equipment back (so far mostly for DG, but I think other legions might follow).
We have quite good internal balance for the first time ever.

Mutilators suck, but that's a problem of the concept of the unit that simply cannot work.

8th ed CSM codex is the best one since 3.5 edition and probably the best codex CSM ever had. And I say that as a DG player.

I assume the OP worships Slaanesh, since he is saying that he wants to go back to being abused.

 Grumblewartz wrote:
I assume the OP worships Slaanesh, since he is saying that he wants to go back to being abused.

Read the name : )

Goldilocks might be another username you could consider.

Juuuuust kidding. I know how you feel. I am scared of Orks becoming OP. What will I whine about then? I would have to switch armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goldilocks might be another username you could consider.

Juuuuust kidding. I know how you feel. I am scared of Orks becoming OP. What will I whine about then? I would have to switch armies.

 doktor_g wrote:
Goldilocks might be another username you could consider.

Juuuuust kidding. I know how you feel. I am scared of Orks becoming OP. What will I whine about then? I would have to switch armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goldilocks might be another username you could consider.

Juuuuust kidding. I know how you feel. I am scared of Orks becoming OP. What will I whine about then? I would have to switch armies.

Like it, will keep it under consideration.

Thinking about it, you do have a point as CSM was the first codex of 6th and we all saw the arms race that became in subsequent codexes, Decurion et al. Might just get my wish.

While you might get a prejudiced response when you tell someone what army you play - isn't the strength of your army entirely up to you? Just don't take gakky cheese units...boom, challenge resumed.

I play Chaos Space Marines, but I play Renegades who are still torn about involvement with Chaos. One small portion of my army is devoted to Nurgle, while the rest are..."putting up with it". As such my army is exceptionally limited and I don't make use of about 30% of the Chaos Space Marine codex.

I use the Renegade tactic, so no fancy wargear/spells/relics. I only have a small Nurgle portion of my list, so no Berserkers, no Noise Marines, no named characters of any kind are present/allowed. I can't use greater daemons unless I build a separate detachment (which I likely won't bother). Hate the look and feel of Daemon engines (their models are fething pants), etc.

It's safe to say I've got very few, if any, power units in my army. I didn't build it to be challenging, I built it to represent the fluff and feel that I wanted - and yes, I can get throttled pretty easily.

I guess I don't understand why you can't create a challenging army for yourself? Just don't use meta/netlists...simple as that.

 Elbows wrote:
While you might get a prejudiced response when you tell someone what army you play - isn't the strength of your army entirely up to you? Just don't take gakky cheese units...boom, challenge resumed.

I play Chaos Space Marines, but I play Renegades who are still torn about involvement with Chaos. One small portion of my army is devoted to Nurgle, while the rest are..."putting up with it". As such my army is exceptionally limited and I don't make use of about 30% of the Chaos Space Marine codex.

I use the Renegade tactic, so no fancy wargear/spells/relics. I only have a small Nurgle portion of my list, so no Berserkers, no Noise Marines, no named characters of any kind are present/allowed. I can't use greater daemons unless I build a separate detachment (which I likely won't bother). Hate the look and feel of Daemon engines (their models are fething pants), etc.

It's safe to say I've got very few, if any, power units in my army. I didn't build it to be challenging, I built it to represent the fluff and feel that I wanted - and yes, I can get throttled pretty easily.

I guess I don't understand why you can't create a challenging army for yourself? Just don't use meta/netlists...simple as that.

Hmmm.

Never used net lists, cheese, etc.

Agree with the comment on the Dinobots and Hel-Turkey - godawful models.

Having said that I may scout about to see what the renegades list is about. Always liked the Red Coursairs but never got around to doing anything with them. IIRC I have a resin Huron kicking around somewhere.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Played Chaos since 2nd edition.

The highs of 3.5 have passed, the lows of every other edition up to and including 7th have dwindled and now we are allegedly in a good place.

So, I haven't even read let alone purchased the 8th CSM codex as I have lost all interest. I tried kicking off my R&H again to keep the Dark Gods appeased and practically fell off my chair when I read the IA:Index, what a half-assed job FW did.

I enjoy playing armies which are a challenge, whether requiring an advanced understanding of how to use them or because their rules are just 'infernus detritus'.

Does anyone else want CSM to go back to the whipping boy days? Let me clarify, that does not include the constant whinge-fest that this forum was with CSM players and their oceans of salty tears - which at times I was one.

In addition, I also partially attribute my new found CSM apathy came about after the seemingly endless Plaugemarine release, talk about flogging a deceased equine creature - and they are still not finished!

No.

We lack

Cataphratii
Tartoros
Drop pods
Heresy era equipment to help distinguish us from loyalists (other than FW)
Good Deamon Engines
A large set of weapons, equipment and Deamonic upgrades for customisation.

But its not all bad, we got

Legion rules
Buffed Cult troops
a mostly workable codex

On the whole we are still missing a lot and with a bit of luck we will get it in the future

Yeah, look at DG. They got Cataphractii, MKIII armour and good Daemon engines that also look quite cool. Once WE, EC and TS get the same treatment there's little left to argue about, aside from upgrades to the undevided models.
FW has Drop pods, even better ones than the loyalists get.

TS also got Tartaros armour.

I admit I don't know why GW decided to give all loyalists access to the HH termis but not CSM, but you can still use the models if you want.

 Formosa wrote:
We lack

Cataphratii
Tartoros
Drop pods
Heresy era equipment to help distinguish us from loyalists (other than FW)
Good Deamon Engines
A large set of weapons, equipment and Deamonic upgrades for customisation.

But its not all bad, we got

Legion rules
Buffed Cult troops
a mostly workable codex

On the whole we are still missing a lot and with a bit of luck we will get it in the future

The Death Guard terminators are Cathapractii, and the Scarab Ocult Terminators are Tartaros. Personally, I use Cathapracti terminators with double LC as my chaos terminators. With drop pods I agree. A month ago I was reading this new DA comic, Revelations, and when I saw the Iron Warriors entering the planet in drop pods I was... "Damm GW, just give them Drop pods already "
And I agree with more daemonic weapons and equipement. Chaos Space Marines have had 10.000 years to receive new toys from the Dark Mechanicus, the ones that don't actually have forgotten innovation.

I do long for the WE to get their own codex. I think it would be awesome if they put some of the FW stuff in it. Like Zhufor, Blood slaughterer and other Khorne things.

Absolutely not. I enjoy having actual legion rules and not being a total piece of gak army and a waste of time on the battlefield.

I've endured over a decade of garbage rules released by GW that anybody with half a brain could have done in a few hours properly.

Chaos will get Primaris marines in the future probably, which is why we haven't seen any new models for them in like 15 years. And now that we are competitively in a good position again, they absolutely murder my interest with the implementation of Primaris Marines. GW have absolutely killed any and all interest I have in marines in general. It's terrible writing that tries to remove the flaws in the Space Marine. Their flaws were what gave the character, not this infallible bs their trying to push.

Your issue is that you can make competitive armies from the CSM codex, and that is no challenge?

My solution is simply to impose a challenge yourself, if you want to play chaos. Base an army around underpowered units, tied together thematically. Perhaps an Iron Warrior war band based heavily around Obliterators and Mutilators, Word Bearers with a ton of cultists?

There's loads of directions you can go down without spamming Alpha Legion berzerkers or whatnot.

 Galas wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
We lack

Cataphratii
Tartoros
Drop pods
Heresy era equipment to help distinguish us from loyalists (other than FW)
Good Deamon Engines
A large set of weapons, equipment and Deamonic upgrades for customisation.

But its not all bad, we got

Legion rules
Buffed Cult troops
a mostly workable codex

On the whole we are still missing a lot and with a bit of luck we will get it in the future

The Death Guard terminators are Cathapractii, and the Scarab Ocult Terminators are Tartaros. Personally, I use Cathapracti terminators with double LC as my chaos terminators. With drop pods I agree. A month ago I was reading this new DA comic, Revelations, and when I saw the Iron Warriors entering the planet in drop pods I was... "Damm GW, just give them Drop pods already "
And I agree with more daemonic weapons and equipement. Chaos Space Marines have had 10.000 years to receive new toys from the Dark Mechanicus, the ones that don't actually have forgotten innovation.

I see what your saying but codex death guard and thousand sons are not codex chaos space marines, so I disregarded them slightly, in terms of models already received, but also considered them for models coming in the future, I think it's pretty clear that world eaters will get there own codex but emperor children won't, poor old slaanesh always gets ignored

I'm a little conflicted about the topic. On the one hand I always want to be the underdog to some degree. Overcoming challenge is fun to me, not winning easily. That said a challenge ought to be doable in the first place. That's why I bought into choas a few weeks ago, largely because T'au without a codex was useless aside from one particularly exploitative list, against anything with a codex.

So far I've found CSM to be in a good place for me. There are more than 1 decent build, there is versatility in style etc. It's distressing that SM has many of the same units with just more options like storm shields on terminators. And that they have just more options in units. And that they have reroll everything all the time and we only get that in fighting but lack units worth fighting with other than berzerkers (who i dislike aesthetically, I'd love to use posessed but they don't seem to quite work out in theory).

I really like the daemon engines but without legion traits they don't quite seem to fit in with my list either. It's ok that we don't have genestealers exactly, we have just about the next best and that's good. In general CSM doesn't seem to be cheap spam unless you really want to, but also it isn't unwinnable. It's maybe slightly less robust and pungent than the other codexes which I like. I'll have to be tactical and work for a win.

I’m ok with having a good codex that isn’t 5 years out of date.

The only whinging seems to be what the emperors finest are the best at. Whinging.

Dont worry. A few more books in and We will fall under the wayside. At this point 8th edition is all about Command point management, just like 7th was Warp Charges. we are doing pretty good with Battalions due to Cultists, Pox Walkers, and Daemon units. But things change rapidly. Chaos is much better now than they have been (although I enjoyed those couple months of Traitor Legions). I've actually shelved my Orks and my Biker Marines in the meantime to finally get some work done.

Ehhhh. Chaos is op like adnech were op in 7th: you hear anything other than the competitive monster mash configuration and it's not even a thing.

The dedicated marine whiners will always whine, but 90% of the cam codex is just minor variations on the stuff they themselves complain about being UP. Oblits, bezerkers, noise Marines are solid but 99% of competitive chaos points are spent on Magnus Morty and renegades. Maybe we'll see more post ca, but anyone who whines about a basic can list is just a donkey.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


I enjoy playing armies which are a challenge, whether requiring an advanced understanding of how to use them or because their rules are just 'infernus detritus'.

Then definitely stay far away from Forgeworld!

Bit of a odd request..

Do I want my Khorne Berserkers to be sucky in combat again? No.

Do I want Obilerators to be one of the most unused models? No.

Do I want Hellbrutes to be a joke again? No.

I don't play events, and may play game a month against good friends. It's near that most of the codex is somewhat half decent.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


I enjoy playing armies which are a challenge, whether requiring an advanced understanding of how to use them or because their rules are just 'infernus detritus'.

Then definitely stay far away from Forgeworld!

Yeah a lot of it is overpriced now, with 1/2 outliers that are a bit op, so stay away from most of it like he said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AaronWilson wrote:
Bit of a odd request..

Do I want my Khorne Berserkers to be sucky in combat again? No.

Do I want Obilerators to be one of the most unused models? No.

Do I want Hellbrutes to be a joke again? No.

I don't play events, and may play game a month against good friends. It's near that most of the codex is somewhat half decent.

Bezerkers are ACTUALLY USABLE NOW!!!!!! wow never thought I would say that, im with you.

Oblits are ok, but there rules feel like crap, I want my old weapons options back! they dont suck or anything, I just want the option of assault cannons, lascannons etc.

Hellbrutes a pure awesome now, plus all the cool weapon options means I can convert to my hearts content, shame the rest of the book isnt the same.

most of the codex is good, we are just lacking a lot of interesting options sadly.

Oblits would be too strong with lazcannons/multi-meltas. They are honestly a bit too strong right now if used with alpha legion infiltrate.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Oblits would be too strong with lazcannons/multi-meltas. They are honestly a bit too strong right now if used with alpha legion infiltrate.

Are you sure you're talking about Chaos Obliterators ?

Their current weapon is miles better than a Lascannon or Multi-melta and no one ever uses Alpha Legion's Forward Operatives on Obliterators since they can Deepstrike...

Still don't know what this thread is about. If you're winning too much with CSM play R&H, or Word Bearers with Daemonettes, Blood Letters, Possessed, Mutilators, CSM, Cultists Forgefiends and no marks.

It's not hard to build a non-optimized list and unfortunately the concept of "play what you want, your chances will be even no matter what" doesn't work for 40K.

I feel your pain. I miss Index CWE. Even with their 17ppm DAs.

If you want something more of a challenge play a mono god renegades army.

In not so many words: No, no I would rather not have awful internal balance, laughingstock vehicles and melee troops, and other such 'underdog' things.