How to fix the first turn-advantage

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**Desubot**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Breng77 wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
As a GK player I usually can only field a Battalion. Does this mean I'm doomed to never being able to go first?

Also to those of you proposing ideas that require players to spend CP to avoid some situations- all that really does is allow a bigger advantage to high CP armies. I'm usually at 6 CPs with no way to recover/add more. If I face an IG player (usually at 12-13 CP and a means to recover/add more points) I'm at a disadvantage to start with and you want me to dig a bigger hole just to avoid being the victim of an Alpha Strike. Yes, I know that I don't have to spend the CP but then your rule doesn't really work for low CP armies.

Some armies are just like that

you gotta deal with it.

You see that's the nib of it. As the rules are now I do have a chance to go first and I don't have to spend CP (that someone else can) to avoid Alpha Strike situations. Those proposals don't do anything but harm my army so why should I "deal with it" when it shouldn't happen in the first place.

BTW- I'm under no illusions as to the power level of my chosen army. "Deal with it" is just a cheap response that says that you don't have an answer and can't be bothered to add something to the conversation.

I think you biffed the quote.

also no i dont have an answer for it as 40k is not a game that can be fair for everyone and every build or every army as every army and build is different and has different properties. its going to be unfair until the fundamental rules of the game changes to a form that benefits elite and power weapons again.

**GangstaMuffin24**

Desubot, just curious about what you mean by specifically mentioning power weapons?

**Desubot**

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:
Desubot, just curious about what you mean by specifically mentioning power weapons?

what was it... 4th? 5th? where greyknights went nuts because of the edition change. power weapons back then ignored armor saves.

**GangstaMuffin24**

Desubot wrote:
GangstaMuffin24 wrote:
Desubot, just curious about what you mean by specifically mentioning power weapons?

what was it... 4th? 5th? where greyknights went nuts because of the edition change. power weapons back then ignored armor saves.

I haven't read the daemon hunters codex in years, but yeah, I do remember that being how they functioned from at least 4th on.

**auticus**

Power weapons ignored armor saves pretty much every edition. They did since 3rd anyway. In 3rd the tables were dominated by blood angels death companies and space wolf models dripping in power weapons.

Grey knights became busted for a combination of reasons. One was they were all power weapons, but then they had the draigo paladin-star "fun" build where you could take a unit of 2+ save 5++ save models and then spread the wounds around as they took them...

**Luciferian**

Don't forget psyflemen.

**GangstaMuffin24**

auticus wrote:
Power weapons ignored armor saves pretty much every edition. They did since 3rd anyway. In 3rd the tables were dominated by blood angels death companies and space wolf models dripping in power weapons.

Grey knights became busted for a combination of reasons. One was they were all power weapons, but then they had the draigo paladin-star "fun" build where you could take a unit of 2+ save 5++ save models and then spread the wounds around as they took them...

All power weapons were fluffy and cool, but not that big of a deal. The biggest balance abuses I remember from the 5th ed codex were all the henchmen shenanigans. 3++ crusaders, lascannon monkies, etc.

**auticus**

Yeah. The other build. Coteaz and friends.

My area was dominated by Draigo and friends, I didn't really have to deal with Coteaz and friends, I just read about it on forums.

Draigo and friends was so appealing because it was like 15 models or so that steam rolled you if you weren't running one of the other two power builds of the time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:
auticus wrote:
Power weapons ignored armor saves pretty much every edition. They did since 3rd anyway. In 3rd the tables were dominated by blood angels death companies and space wolf models dripping in power weapons.

Grey knights became busted for a combination of reasons. One was they were all power weapons, but then they had the draigo paladin-star "fun" build where you could take a unit of 2+ save 5++ save models and then spread the wounds around as they took them...

All power weapons were fluffy and cool, but not that big of a deal. The biggest balance abuses I remember from the 5th ed codex were all the henchmen shenanigans. 3++ crusaders, lascannon monkies, etc.

I didn't have a big problem with 5th until grey knights dropped. Once draigo and his paladins of love were on every tabletop every weekend for months and months, I quit 40k for a long period of time.

**GangstaMuffin24**

auticus wrote:
Yeah. The other build. Coteaz and friends.

My area was dominated by Draigo and friends, I didn't really have to deal with Coteaz and friends, I just read about it on forums.

Draigo and friends was so appealing because it was like 15 models or so that steam rolled you if you weren't running one of the other two power builds of the time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

GangstaMuffin24 wrote:
auticus wrote:
Power weapons ignored armor saves pretty much every edition. They did since 3rd anyway. In 3rd the tables were dominated by blood angels death companies and space wolf models dripping in power weapons.

Grey knights became busted for a combination of reasons. One was they were all power weapons, but then they had the draigo paladin-star "fun" build where you could take a unit of 2+ save 5++ save models and then spread the wounds around as they took them...

All power weapons were fluffy and cool, but not that big of a deal. The biggest balance abuses I remember from the 5th ed codex were all the henchmen shenanigans. 3++ crusaders, lascannon monkies, etc.

I didn't have a big problem with 5th until grey knights dropped. Once draigo and his paladins of love were on every tabletop every weekend for months and months, I quit 40k for a long period of time.

To be fair, I only read about both builds. I'm still the only GK player I know of and only had middle of the road results with my all terminator list. I don't consider myself particularly competitive though so YMMV.