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2017/12/08 15:55:25
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
I'd find it cool to see Russ return as a real insane daemonic Wolfprince. Or wulfen Daemonprince . Would offer some cool stories about how the imperium handles him. On the one hand he's a primarch and fighting Chaos like crazy, on the other hand he's tainted and could even punch Guilliman down.
2017/12/08 16:08:56
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
all that was recovered was his hand, it's possiable he's been kept in some chaos marine prison foir the past 10k years or something.
After 10k years of anal rape by Emperor's Children... he'd be broken, and I'd be OK with that.
All we know about his death is he was lost on a despoiler class Battleship named the Sword of Sacrilege, we don't know the Legion involved. If any (for all we know it was a heretic naval vessel and Rogal Dorn fell to a lucky Naval rating with a shot gun) In fact my gut feeling is if it's ever eistablished it WON'T be the Emperor's children simply because they already had the distinction of having wacked another Primarch. (Gulliman)
I think Curze had a vision of him "being dragged down a dark corridor by a hundred murderers"... so maybe the night lords? but hell, if there was a ever a description of an easy to get out of situation for a demi god.... its that one.
And i too would hate for any of the dead ones to just re-appear, but i do like the idea of Kurze being introduced as some demon-primarch ascended after making a pact with Malal before his death? would be a great way to introduce another God and range of demons.
People need to give up on Malal. GW doesn't own the exclusive rights to Malal so you'll never see them take the risk. At best you'd get a similar chaos god with a different name and symbol.
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
I actually want him to be an Admech Lord of War, that has a special rule that makes the Iron Hands get bonuses against an army that includes it because they hate the idea so much.
What I envision is some kind of cybernetic frankenstein, headless, but attached to a selection of servitor brains in jars. The body's superhuman metabolism keeps it alive and functioning. An AI that runs on brains like the Cawl Inferior could control it, and it would be a close-combat monster with a big gun or a few little guns as well (But not both).
Here's how I envision the unit: "Ferrus Reborn" Adeptus Mechanicus Lord of War
Faction Keywords: Imperium, Adeptus Mechanicus, Cult Mechanicus
Unit Keywords: Character, Monster, Ferrus Manus
Statline is: M: 8" WS: 3+ BS: 4+ S: 6 T: 10 W: 11 A: 5 LD:10 Sv: 2+ Wargear: Living Metal Hands, Cacophona Omnissiah, Mauler Bolt Cannon
Living Metal Hands: Strength: User, AP -2, 3 damage, but doubles the number of attacks this unit makes with this weapon, OR Strength: x2, AP -4, 3d3 damage.
Mauler Bolt Cannon: 24" Heavy 3, str 6, AP -2, 2 damage
Cacophona Omnissiah: All friendly units with the Canticles of the Omnissiah ability on the battlefield always count as being under the Chant of the Iron Soul in addition to the normal Canticles.
Abilities/Special Rules: Cybernetic Monstrosity: The lumbering, frankenstinian gait of this unit allows for easy stabilization and control even over the roughest terrain. The unit may move and fire without suffering the penalty for heavy weapons, though it may only advance d3". However, it may charge after advancing.
Sanctioned Blasphemy: While the Mechanicus may believe this is a triumph of enlightened knowledge, the Iron Hands have a different opinion... Enemy Iron Hands units get +1 Attack if this unit is on the same battlefield. No Iron Hands units may ever be friendly units.
Posthuman Transmorgification: The Emperor's genecraft augmented by the Mechanicus's transhuman technological terrors is truly a sight to behold. This unit has a 3+ Invulnerable save. Furthermore, it may heal d3 wounds at the beginning of any turn. Such are the mysteries of its construction, however, that it may not regain wounds in any other way while on the battlefield.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/12/08 16:16:47
2017/12/08 16:13:04
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Sgt. Cortez wrote: I'd find it cool to see Russ return as a real insane daemonic Wolfprince. Or wulfen Daemonprince . Would offer some cool stories about how the imperium handles him. On the one hand he's a primarch and fighting Chaos like crazy, on the other hand he's tainted and could even punch Guilliman down.
Awed by his return, hundreds of Space Wolves kneel before their progenitor...
His voice is a deep rumble, full of confidence and wisdom...
"My sons. I have been gone a long time. I have reflected on the best way forward since the entombment of my father. I have traveled long and deep to find this answer"
Out of his shadow step out two Tau Etherels
"Let me tell you, my sons, of the Greater Good"
Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.
All of them so they get the goofy AoS treatment, then the pain of whfb shall be shared by all.
I would love the blood angle guy to come back with full fledged vampire wings and fangs swooping down from the sky connected to the ground by a stupid ribbon. Only if he is like 2 feet tall and every inch has a picture on it tho :p.
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
2017/12/08 17:58:45
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
all that was recovered was his hand, it's possiable he's been kept in some chaos marine prison foir the past 10k years or something.
After 10k years of anal rape by Emperor's Children... he'd be broken, and I'd be OK with that.
All we know about his death is he was lost on a despoiler class Battleship named the Sword of Sacrilege, we don't know the Legion involved. If any (for all we know it was a heretic naval vessel and Rogal Dorn fell to a lucky Naval rating with a shot gun) In fact my gut feeling is if it's ever eistablished it WON'T be the Emperor's children simply because they already had the distinction of having wacked another Primarch. (Gulliman)
I think Curze had a vision of him "being dragged down a dark corridor by a hundred murderers"... so maybe the night lords? but hell, if there was a ever a description of an easy to get out of situation for a demi god.... its that one.
And i too would hate for any of the dead ones to just re-appear, but i do like the idea of Kurze being introduced as some demon-primarch ascended after making a pact with Malal before his death? would be a great way to introduce another God and range of demons.
People need to give up on Malal. GW doesn't own the exclusive rights to Malal so you'll never see them take the risk. At best you'd get a similar chaos god with a different name and symbol.
Also, Malal was never a thing in 40k in the first place. Malal is from Fantasy. The only thing we got in 40k is a few old things written about the 'Sons of Malice' who worship a 'god' named Malice that has many of the attributes of Malal. And that is before mentioning that the stories of Malal are very ancient fluff and have been retconned several times.
So, although there is no such thing as Malal in 40k, Malice was never exactly retconned. So while people still can make up their own stuff about Malice, the chance we are ever going to see GW do anything with it. Not only is the concept silly, but GW indeed doesn't own the rights to Malal, and Malice is too generic to be copyrighted. If you want though, I think there is at least one store out there who is making miniatures of the daemons of Malice/Malal.
But imho, introducing more Chaos gods is not a good idea. Four is enough.
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2017/12/09 09:51:56
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
I think I've been revising my opinion on what would happen when Johnson wakes up, especially if he's the next one to come back.
I used to think he'd be kosher with everything that had been going on, as he never had aspirations to be the top dog among his brother primarchs, and he was content to let Guilliman handle the "ruling" as long as he was in charge of the fighting.
I've started thinking though, more along the lines of the what changed after Johnson went down. The Codex Astartes, when Guilliman forced his will on all of the loyalist Legions, and forced them to break up into powers that would no longer be strong enough to cause another Heresy... or oppose Guilliman.
Johnson was worried that Guillimans thirst for control would lead to attempts to take over. It's why he was ready to go to war the instant his fleet showed up at Macragge during the Heresy. Now he would wake up, find that Guilliman himself had forced his Legion to break up into small fighting forces, and is now being further forced to serve his will, he's going to be pissed. When he goes to meet his brother, and finds him holding their fathers sword... well, I'd be willing to bet things could get real ugly.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/12/09 10:27:32
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
I'd like to see multiple "descendants" of alpharius come out, all kind of him but not, better than a spacemarine but worse than a primarch, when one dies a nearby legionnaire drinks their blood and becomes the new descendant.
1650 points approx. of deathwatch
2500 points aprox. of alpha legion and thousand sons
50 power admech
60 power salamanders
70 power thousand sons
2017/12/09 23:27:34
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
I sincerly doubt Russ would openly challange Gulliman, my read on the character is he'd be happy to let Gulliman know where he thought he was screwing up and they'd proably argue and debate in private.
I agree. Guilliman consider Russ one of the "Dauntless few", i.e. one of the Brothers he respected the most (the others being Dorn, Sangy and Ferrus). That respect alone should be enough to keep troubles at bay, even if they do have disagreements.
The Lion would be much more interesting as the whole Imperium Secundus storyline would be given a reboot on a larger scale. Having said that, I can see Gulliman appointing the Lion as his Warmaster (the role he always wanted) which would allow Guilliman some breathing room to get the Imperium into a better shape.
I believe Russ and the Lion will be the next loyalist Primarchs to be released (probably in that order). To be fair, any of the other Loyalist Primarchs could turn up at any time that is dramatically appropriate since most of them are simply MIA. Only Ferrus and Sanguinius are properly dead and should probably be left that way (along with Kurze and Horus on the Chaos side). Anyone else is fair game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/09 23:33:08
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2017/12/10 15:23:26
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Could be a false lead but Dorn technically has a spare pair of Primarch-sized hands available should he need to fake his own death and disappear.
Alpharius was smaller than the other Primarchs. I'm sure someone would have noticed if Dorn'd left behind a midget-primarch hand.
Alpharius was the size of a large Astartes as the AL tended to be slightly larger than other legionaries and he could masquerade as a tall Alpha Legionary when he needed to. So maybe he was 10-20% smaller than Dorn but who would recognize that difference in a skeletal hand. How many people do you think closely examined Dorn's hands enough to notice that the skeletal remains were slightly smaller than they should be? They find a hand larger than a regular Astartes, no Dorn, and assume the worst.
I don't know if it is true but it is a plot hook they have obviously left open. I rather like the idea that IF Chapter Masters have spent the last 10,000 years carving their names on Alpharius' hand bones.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2017/12/10 17:05:51
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
2017/12/10 17:07:50
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/12/10 17:31:29
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 17:35:14
2017/12/10 17:42:14
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 17:42:58
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/12/10 17:42:23
Subject: Re:The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
I hope that when GW bring other loyalist Primarchs(and they will) that with the exception of the Lion there not just straight ports of there 30k selves. Even with warp/webway/stasis shenanigans they should all be affected by the lives they led after the Heresy.
I'd like to see an "old man" Russ. Still deadly as heck but a lot wiser and maybe more of a mysterious shaman type. I do like Backspacehacker's idea of him somehow saving Isha from Nurgle's garden as well. It could lay the ground for some interesting developments within the Eldar and for there dynamic with the Imperium as well.
2017/12/10 17:43:34
Subject: Re:The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
GoatboyBeta wrote: I hope that when GW bring other loyalist Primarchs(and they will) that with the exception of the Lion there not just straight ports of there 30k selves. Even with warp/webway/stasis shenanigans they should all be affected by the lives they led after the Heresy.
I'd like to see an "old man" Russ. Still deadly as heck but a lot wiser and maybe more of a mysterious shaman type. I do like Backspacehacker's idea of him somehow saving Isha from Nurgle's garden as well. It could lay the ground for some interesting developments within the Eldar and for there dynamic with the Imperium as well.
I'd agree with you there. Seeing Vulkan now would be very interesting.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/12/10 17:57:43
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
The Utterly Annihilated should remain utterly annihilated.
The Dead should remain dead unless there's a plot goldmine that needs that particular Primarch resurrected (which would be rarer than mercy in a cat). Death can mean effective annihilation (soul eaten/torn apart by demons), but it doesn't have to be so. Reborn as a Greater Daemon of the Emperor (Ferrus) or through the body of their children (Sanguinius/Sanguinor) isn't going to make them what they were before, but it is a viable avenue for return.
The MIA should come back when the plot allows (because at this point the CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG - Primarchs are back on both sides of the axis that GW actually cares about, the Imperium/Chaos divide - and a universe in which the Imperium has a single, unopposed-from-within Primarch figure uniting it isn't nearly grimdark enough to fit). Fluff is flexible, and the Imperium will need all the extra potency it can get to handle the ever-encroaching invasions of everything-not-human.
Some Primarchs are unclear which category they fall under. Horus is the only guaranteed "Utterly Annihilated" case I'm aware of, though with his power up, it would potentially be within Horus' potential to have done the same to Sanguinius.
Sanguinius could merely be in the "He's dead, Jim" category, alongside Kurze and Ferrus. Alpharius and Omegon could both be in this category, or they could both be in the "MIA" category (fuckin' Alpha legion, man).
Any of the MIA could also be in the "dead as a doornail" category just because their current fate is a mystery, but I doubt GW has the capability of giving a Primarch a off-screen death properly.
In the short term, and without significant advancement of the plot (which I sincerely doubt will be permanently stopped by GW - I suspect each new edition will involve advances in the story line), I'd want to see Corvax return. Corvax, above all other Primarchs, would be most disturbed and worried about the Primaris project, and I don't doubt that would open up a more potent "I told you so" moment when some Primaris eventually get corrupted.
The Lion would make another decent addition given the internal tension it would create in the Imperium (both Guilliman and the Lion are loyal, but their methods differ enough to create internal strife without also causing a full-blown civil war), and with Luther escaping from the Rock, I'm guessing he's been given the plot go-ahead/excuse to be present in 40k.
Russ could also return given apocalyptic events that happened in their home system, but I don't see much in the way of plots he would be useful for - he could make the extremely depleted Space Wolves relevant again, which isn't nothing, but as discussed previously, he seems like he'd follow Guilliman's lead too much for the right amount of Primarch-level rival-tension.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 18:00:55
2017/12/10 18:22:01
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
Did you not read the part where the lion executed one of his most trusted adjutants(Nemiel) for reminding the lion of the Nimea edict when he reinstate the libraians?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 18:49:59
2017/12/10 18:27:05
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
I agree. Remember it was Gav Thorpe who planted the rumours about the Lion's disloyalty in the 3rd Ed DA codex. Gave Thorpe has also been writing most of the DA novels for the HH and has gone to great pains to show the Lion as being loyal. However he is also a jerk who manages to piss enough people off that Luther is abole to convince at least the DAs on Caliban that the Lion is no longer their friend.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2017/12/10 22:00:22
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
For Curze it would be interesting if when the assassin supposedly killed him that instead it resulted in the death of his Night Haunter persona but the Cruze side was able to survive. Cruze still hates his own legion and would probably see the rest of chaos as the same sort of filth he both hunted down in his early days and the same sort of abomination he saw in his own legion. He most likely wouldn't join the IoM again given that his reputation and his physical appearance is increasingly that of a monster. Where he could have a place is in the Dark Imperium where he can rally the humans left out of the Light of the Emperor and fight to establish a realm free from both the blinding light of Big E (and his pawns like Gulliman) and also free from the blight of chaos.
Would make for a more interesting narrative to have more noticeable internal conflict within humanity and allow for the introduction of rules for non IoM guard, astartes, ad mech, etc that isn't also chaos. Wouldn't even need new model kits as they can use the same kits and just recommend striping off any Aquilas or other IoM iconography.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/10 22:01:13
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
2017/12/11 04:26:51
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
Did you not read the part where the lion executed one of his most trusted adjutants(Nemiel) for reminding the lion of the Nimea edict when he reinstate the libraians?
Yes, that makes him an donkey-cave, not a traitor. And Nemiel wasn't just "reminding" him of Nikea. He was about to blow the Librarian's head off, in complete contradiction to Jonson's orders. And next you're going to throw out how he gave the weapons to Perturabo, but guess what. Not even the Emperor knew that Perturabo was a traitor at that point, so I guess that makes him suspect as well? Jonson had every opportunity in the world to seal the fate of the galaxy. He had the opportunity to destroy both the Ultramarines and Blood Angels at any point, ensuring the total success of the Heresy. He could have at any point joined in with the three traitor legions he spent most of the war fighting, yet never did. The second he learned of the Heresy, he took steps to try to ensure Horus couldn't get his hands on weapons he'd need to storm Terra, and later on when no one was "watching" he was still fighting the legions that turned traitor, shattering the Nightlords, when even if he was just planning on sitting out and seeing who would win, he didn't need to do.
Yet he's still "suspect". Yeah, right...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/11 04:27:26
Full Frontal Nerdity
2017/12/11 06:29:06
Subject: Re:The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
GW is missing a massive money-grab opportunity if they dont bring back some more loyalist primarchs. The balanced move would be to bring back a loyalist and a demon primarch around the same time, I can see the marketing plan now...
The Lion: Is brought back by Gulliman, im sure you could get several books worth of fluff from this act alone. Have some immediate internal conflict with gulliman but maintain appearances. Before too much conflict can happen fulgrim appears and gulliman seeks vengeance.
Fulgrim: Appears from the warp at near legion strength +demons after so many of his astartes went to find his demon world. Because of the path of slaanesh he has an unusual number of demon princes in his legion. He's fighting the dark eldar and inadvertantly releases another primarch.
khan: who beelines back to his legion. Fulgrim follows him back and finds the ultramarines are soon upon him.
lorgar: Is called by fulgrim for assistance who was conveniently waiting for this moment. Lorgar brings his errant brother angron aswell which turns the tide of battle significantly.
Angron: On a crusade of blood with lorgar to confront khan and gulliman.
Vulkan: Meanwhile the salamanders finish their tome of fire checklist and vulkan comes back. He heads to the fighting aswell which is now in loyalist favor with the salamanders significant flamers punishing angrons world eaters.
Perturabo: Comes back to support lorgar in what is now a massive conflict. Ends up forcing a loyalist retreat. Betrays fulgrim super hard and destroys half his legion after fighting at his side against the loyalists because of what happened in descent of angels. Fulgrim lashes out and attacks mredengard with chaotic weapons but accidentally unleashes another primarch.
Russ: Emerges from the iron warriors homeworld and beelines back his old chapter. Somehow has corax with him. Perturabo had capturedt hem and kept them both alive to extract gene-seed for his iron warriors. His iron warriors are so numerous now as to rival the numbers of ultramarines.
Corax: Is super salty about being chained up in perturabo's dungeon and feels even wierder about the numarines but deals with it. He basically got his ass saved by russ so agrees to go take revenge on magnus with him. Somehow assassinates abaddon on the way there.
Dorn, ferrus manus, night haunter, horus, alpharius omegon all stay dead or missing in m opinion.
2017/12/11 07:27:22
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
Did you not read the part where the lion executed one of his most trusted adjutants(Nemiel) for reminding the lion of the Nimea edict when he reinstate the libraians?
Yes, that makes him an donkey-cave, not a traitor. And Nemiel wasn't just "reminding" him of Nikea. He was about to blow the Librarian's head off, in complete contradiction to Jonson's orders. And next you're going to throw out how he gave the weapons to Perturabo, but guess what. Not even the Emperor knew that Perturabo was a traitor at that point, so I guess that makes him suspect as well? Jonson had every opportunity in the world to seal the fate of the galaxy. He had the opportunity to destroy both the Ultramarines and Blood Angels at any point, ensuring the total success of the Heresy. He could have at any point joined in with the three traitor legions he spent most of the war fighting, yet never did. The second he learned of the Heresy, he took steps to try to ensure Horus couldn't get his hands on weapons he'd need to storm Terra, and later on when no one was "watching" he was still fighting the legions that turned traitor, shattering the Nightlords, when even if he was just planning on sitting out and seeing who would win, he didn't need to do.
Yet he's still "suspect". Yeah, right...
we get it, you're the lion's fan boy; no loyalist executing their own unless its the only resort(see sangunius executing the blood raged as an act of mercy, corax on the gene deformed, dorn confine his librarians), his direct actions of executing Nemiel opened up half of his legion gone rogue, Nemiel's best childhood friend, zarkariel(spelling?) decide the lion was worthless to follow, so did his adopted father, though there was some corruption from chaos.
The dark angels chapter is a poster boy for SHAME, SHAME, DING, DING, DING! I just listened to the 'Pandorax', the GK ancient master origin from the DA didn't want anything to do with what became of them now, the audio drama 'deathwatch, the last guardian' show exactly what the DA chapter are about, backstabbing traitorous marines with no honor.
2017/12/11 07:55:56
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Yes, he has been several times. He's stated as much to Curze. He proved it when he showed Guilliman and Sanguinius that Terra still stood, something he was ready to give his life for so they knew it and could try to get there and save it. He further proved his loyalty in the journey to Terra. He had Russ convinced. The only people who still grab at those straws are those who are just wanting it to be so. No other loyalist Primarch has been as strenuously shown how deep their loyalty goes, and people like you are still questioning it.
Did you not read the part where the lion executed one of his most trusted adjutants(Nemiel) for reminding the lion of the Nimea edict when he reinstate the libraians?
Yes, that makes him an donkey-cave, not a traitor. And Nemiel wasn't just "reminding" him of Nikea. He was about to blow the Librarian's head off, in complete contradiction to Jonson's orders. And next you're going to throw out how he gave the weapons to Perturabo, but guess what. Not even the Emperor knew that Perturabo was a traitor at that point, so I guess that makes him suspect as well? Jonson had every opportunity in the world to seal the fate of the galaxy. He had the opportunity to destroy both the Ultramarines and Blood Angels at any point, ensuring the total success of the Heresy. He could have at any point joined in with the three traitor legions he spent most of the war fighting, yet never did. The second he learned of the Heresy, he took steps to try to ensure Horus couldn't get his hands on weapons he'd need to storm Terra, and later on when no one was "watching" he was still fighting the legions that turned traitor, shattering the Nightlords, when even if he was just planning on sitting out and seeing who would win, he didn't need to do.
Yet he's still "suspect". Yeah, right...
we get it, you're the lion's fan boy; no loyalist executing their own unless its the only resort(see sangunius executing the blood raged as an act of mercy, corax on the gene deformed, dorn confine his librarians), his direct actions of executing Nemiel opened up half of his legion gone rogue, Nemiel's best childhood friend, zarkariel(spelling?) decide the lion was worthless to follow, so did his adopted father, though there was some corruption from chaos.
The dark angels chapter is a poster boy for SHAME, SHAME, DING, DING, DING! I just listened to the 'Pandorax', the GK ancient master origin from the DA didn't want anything to do with what became of them now, the audio drama 'deathwatch, the last guardian' show exactly what the DA chapter are about, backstabbing traitorous marines with no honor.
He's not "the Lion's fanboy" he's right and is using facts and logic to back himself up. Meanwhile you are simply using a "no true scotsman fallacy" and a bunch of unrelated bits (we can argue the current loyalty of the dark angels chapter. but that doesn't mean the Lion was disloyal)
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2017/12/11 12:10:49
Subject: The Primarchs and the 41st millenium: who would you bring back and how?
Big Mac wrote: Curze, he has premonitions, so maybe when he said ‘I know what you intend for me, father. ‘ He meant all the crazy flying rodent gak he would do.
Sanguinius always has a soft spot for Curze, so maybe Curze is the one who saves Saguinious and return to the loyalist side, something of a redemption arc that most people love. I like to see the lion show his true colors and switch sides.
So, both Sanguinius and Curze are dead, but you think they'll be back, and even though the Lion has unequivocally been shown to be a loyalist, you believe he's a traitor... ok man.
If the rumor are to be believed, Sanguinius is in a state like Guilliman was, no real confirmation on Curze’s suppose assassination, dying to a callidus assassin however intentionally is hard, suppose only a primarch can kill another primarch, a callidus is way below that, even if she cut off his head. Curze is a precog, so he knows what happens no matter what.
There is another rumor of a loyalist planet that the imperium does not recognize, on the tube about Curze recently. Having Curze back would add a lot of plot points/drama, Dorn, if and when he comes back; Guilliman, the lion, Vulcan. Curze somewhat = the punisher, who wouldn’t want to see that story unfold?
Edit: the lion does not unequivocally shown to be a loyalist, at least in my opinion by the various authors, as well as many others, or there won’t be so many calling him a potential traitor.
Jesus Christ has no one actually read the fluff on what does and does not happen? Firstly, the stasis and sanguinius was a bad translation, and it’s only the dead body, which he literally clearly stated two sentences before, emphasizing that Sanguinius is totally dead. Secondly, Curze wanted to die, and he let himself get killed to prove the the emperor that the imperium was just as bad as chaos. HE WANTED TO DIE. Lastly, when did this Lion unwilling loyalist/actual traitor stuff come to be? In the vast majority of HH books he is portrayed as being completely loyal. In the maybe 3 books that he is not as loyal and ignores the emperor’s orders in, those are first of all already superceded by the more recent books, but secondly are also not indications that he would ever be a servant of Chaos.
. Would offer some cool stories about how the imperium handles him. On the one hand he's a primarch and fighting Chaos like crazy, on the other hand he's tainted and could even punch Guilliman down.
Standing in the light, I see only darkness. 
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