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I remember in comics the only holy trinity of stays dead was " uncle Ben , Gwyn Stacy , and Bucky ". Then marvel said they were going to bring back Bucky and all us fan boys lit up the internet. We brought hate that would make ISIS say " I think you guys are taking it just a little too far". However when Brubaker wrote the story we got Winter solider which gave cap his balls back , and lead to the best cap story ever! I look now at all the new lore with all the lost Primarchs coming back and the fall of Cadia type stories now out , I get some of the same vibe I did back then .
I know most people hate change but it can be done right and can even make things better than they were. So if Sanguinius comes back ( as much as I don't like it as it takes away from him doing his Alamo thing), it could be cool if say his gold coffin healed him or he becomes something like Celestine. Or if Vulkan is back too but is put in dreadnought armor or what have you. Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war. That would bring the hope then make it darker than it's ever been. When is the last time we saw divided imperium and or a as much as it can be united chaos?
We could even start bring in the ultra debates of reborn rowboat vs zombie vampire Sanguinius and or seeing people change sides who we never thought would. So as the 8th ed train keeps on picking up steam and honored dead come back how would you do it so it's done right?

I wouldn't. "Comic book deaths" subtract from the supposed dark tone of the setting, and remove all ability for readers to feel anything for characters if they know they will just come back later.

Primarchs will remain dead. They are relics of an era of hope, an era long past. The only thing left is a slow slide into ruination, the last golden heroes of Man's golden age are ancient dust.

Isn't Civil War basically what the Horus Heresy was?

In any case...please keep Primarch's dead. Or rather the Loyalist ones. Chaos can have a Primarch for each god, they need to up the ante after not really providing a threat.

True Horus Heresy was civil war , but we have not see 4 way civil war with everyone thinking they are the ture light of the emperor. I'm also in camp wants to see Primarch stay dead but they are not going to do that .

I don't want this to become Warmachine-Hordes storyline. Every time they kill/banish/disintegrate a character they always come back. The community has given up - the plot will never contain a death of a modeled character and there's no point in holding your breath when one keels over.

I'm hoping the dead primarchs stay dead. Let us have a at least of the little grimdark left.

Getoffmylawn wrote:
Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war.

Space Wolves don't need anything that big to start a civil war. I believe they are 2-0 with Civil War Victories. With 7th ending on a civil war (return of the wulfen) it might be a little early, though if Russ comes back, you never know what those waskly wolf boys will think of next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Getoffmylawn wrote:
Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war.

Space Wolves don't need anything that big to start a civil war. I believe they are 2-0 with Civil War Victories. With 7th ending on a civil war (return of the wulfen) it might be a little early, though if Russ comes back, you never know what those waskly wolf boys will think of next.


With Primarchs returning, we have Robby G, who on the table, builds a castle of vehicles and whatnot. Then we have Mortarion, who loves to break castle armies with his auras (Sooooo satisfying to watch those mortal wounds spill out!). I think those two, rules wise, are good counters for each other. So which primarch would be a good counter for magnus?

Bucky and Cap got his balls back? Wtf?

Won't go into much as this is 40k not comics, but before winter solider there was about 33 years of cap stories of him being a dork winter solider story made him like what you see in the movies.

Getoffmylawn wrote:
I remember in comics the only holy trinity of stays dead was " uncle Ben , Gwyn Stacy , and Bucky ". Then marvel said they were going to bring back Bucky and all us fan boys lit up the internet. We brought hate that would make ISIS say " I think you guys are taking it just a little too far". However when Brubaker wrote the story we got Winter solider which gave cap his balls back , and lead to the best cap story ever! I look now at all the new lore with all the lost Primarchs coming back and the fall of Cadia type stories now out , I get some of the same vibe I did back then .
I know most people hate change but it can be done right and can even make things better than they were. So if Sanguinius comes back ( as much as I don't like it as it takes away from him doing his Alamo thing), it could be cool if say his gold coffin healed him or he becomes something like Celestine. Or if Vulkan is back too but is put in dreadnought armor or what have you. Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war. That would bring the hope then make it darker than it's ever been. When is the last time we saw divided imperium and or a as much as it can be united chaos?
We could even start bring in the ultra debates of reborn rowboat vs zombie vampire Sanguinius and or seeing people change sides who we never thought would. So as the 8th ed train keeps on picking up steam and honored dead come back how would you do it so it's done right?

If i wanted space marine the game i would go play 30k.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Getoffmylawn wrote:
Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war.

Space Wolves don't need anything that big to start a civil war. I believe they are 2-0 with Civil War Victories. With 7th ending on a civil war (return of the wulfen) it might be a little early, though if Russ comes back, you never know what those waskly wolf boys will think of next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Getoffmylawn wrote:
Let's say everyone comes back but everyone has their own ideas how to run the imperium ,and it causes civil war.

Space Wolves don't need anything that big to start a civil war. I believe they are 2-0 with Civil War Victories. With 7th ending on a civil war (return of the wulfen) it might be a little early, though if Russ comes back, you never know what those waskly wolf boys will think of next.


With Primarchs returning, we have Robby G, who on the table, builds a castle of vehicles and whatnot. Then we have Mortarion, who loves to break castle armies with his auras (Sooooo satisfying to watch those mortal wounds spill out!). I think those two, rules wise, are good counters for each other. So which primarch would be a good counter for magnus?

This is a good point and interesting question! Russ might be a good pick as a massive monster/character hunter who excels at one on one combat? He could hunt Magnus. It would also be extra thematic as Russ burned his whole world and started him down that journey.

Pure conjecture:

Loyalists of interest (to me):
Leman Russ - as a counter to Magnus and because who doesn't want to see the werewolf primarch running around on the board, the potential for the sculpt alone is worth seeing on the table, even if it kicks my ass.
Lion El'Johnson - they've already hinted that he's alive in the depths of the rock.
Vulkan - love the idea that a battered Vulkan returns from his quests to be interred in a massive dreadnought chassis perhaps even with some of the artifacts he's recovered worked into it. Again, sculpt potential is amazing, would love to see it.
Jaghatai Khan - some kind of mounted primarch would also be a really nice deviation.

Heretics of interest (to me):
Fulgrim - rumors have been circulating of an existing sculpt, honestly, this is only mildly interesting to me. He's just never been that interesting as a character to me.
Angron - a deep-striking balls to the wall give no feths assault primarch? Yes. Please. I would love to field this in my World Eaters army.
Lorgar - good lord maybe he can make Word Bearers good?
Perturabo - like Vulkan, I would love to see a mechanized daemon primarch, the sculpt potential here is amazing. Hopefully not having the visual language of the model overly informed by Obliterators/Mutilators.

The rest just don't jump out as that interesting to me. The idea that Alpharius/Omegon would even reveal themselves as alive or dead seems really out of character. Corvax just isn't that interesting to me, but who knows.

 Verviedi wrote:
I wouldn't. "Comic book deaths" subtract from the supposed dark tone of the setting, and remove all ability for readers to feel anything for characters if they know they will just come back later.

Primarchs will remain dead. They are relics of an era of hope, an era long past. The only thing left is a slow slide into ruination, the last golden heroes of Man's golden age are ancient dust.

What would be more grimdark then taking that shining hope from the past, dragging it out into the present, and having it be a flawed shattered thing, so you no longer have even the hope of the distant past to look back on?

Interesting concept but there’s no way in hell it would go well. GW would most likely -tell- us the Primarch was a flawed shattered being, and have them be absolutely perfect and sane on the table/novel anyway.

Perhaps if there was a storyline where Russ was revealed as a mindless berserker, after a long quest by Guilliman to recover him from the Eye Of Terror. Instead of his brother, they find a twisted, insane ravenous beast that starts killing Imperials and has to be put down. The quest fails, and Guilliman loses hope in any more of his brothers being out there.

Getoffmylawn wrote:
So as the 8th ed train keeps on picking up steam and honored dead come back how would you do it so it's done right?

They all come back as fallible and mortal soldiers, nowhere near as powerful as the myths suggested. They are a complete disappointment, accomplishing little or nothing of practical value, and most of them are killed by anonymous artillery shots/shot down aboard their landing craft/etc soon after reappearing. The legend is shattered, morale is crushed, and the Imperium falls deeper into its inevitable end. IOW, the exact opposite of bringing Guilliman back as a triumphant hero with god-like tabletop stats.

Screw those guys(i.e. primarchs and et.). Like we need to waste more time on mehreens or spiky mehreens.

Pick and interesting faction and you'd have a topic worth discussing.

I do think the Primarchs coming back was a mistake (from a story and fluff approach). However, it's obviously been a sales success. My biggest issue is that it turned many armies into "Primarch-mobiles", where you almost don't take the army without the Primarch. That leads to even worse army list stagnation and boredom.

I would have preferred "new" characters and heroes, but more on the Chapter Master/Phoenix Lord level -- good, but not game breaking or game-deciding. It's also why I'm not a big fan of the move toward aura abilities, etc.