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Anyone here think we have a chance of seeing a few Tzeentch Daemon Engines, tank, or some of the Space Marine equivalent models that the Deathguard got recently. It feels like they still really lack anti tank outside preds. I'd love to get some kind of bale-laser tank.

I think it's highly unlikely we'll see anything as expansive as what Death Guard got. It's clear that Death Guard are the new Chaos poster boys (especially with rumors of an Unclean one model with the release of Daemons in January). At most, you might get a single new model.

Im not so sure. Perhaps the reason the Tson codex has yet to drop or is not rumored to drop anytime soon is that they are going to introduce a expanded range. But on the other side of things we already got a mini release before 8th. So maybe we get nothing.
While it would be cool to see more Tson demon engines we dont exactly need them as Las Preds are pretty damn good at AT and along with LR's and Mauler Fiends we are not hurting to badly for AT.

Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

All the TSons need is to have the daemons integrated into their list properly, as with Death Guard.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

I can think of entire ranges of Rubric-based machines they could release. A super-heavy Lord of Dust (Tzeentchian answer to the Lord of Skulls) unit or any number of other Rubric-based walker types, or even flyers. At this point, I really think of TS as a drone army in a lot of ways, with the Rubricae being the foundation of that technological base. Also, various daemon engines makes a lot of sense also. I'd almost think of them like Cylons from the recent BSG show, where they can use that Rubric brain in any number of different chassis types.

Just give me a Silver Tower super heavy and i'll never ask for anything ever again.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Just give me a Silver Tower super heavy and i'll never ask for anything ever again.

Yeah, a bunch of sorcerers slaved to some kind of giant Rubricae war engine sounds full of win to me.

But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

Honestly just use a renagad knight and kit bash it to look egyption, because lord of skulls blows. Don't get me wrong I want more t sons but just give us a silver tower and call it good. And let us integrate daemons into the lists and not break any formations

Side note got a fortress of redemption in a secret santa, probably going to make a silver tower outta it.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

It makes no sense if they don't ever expand or further develop the sorcerous technology involved in the creation of the Rubricae.

Prior to this edition we would have said that Primaris marines were impossible according to the lore, clearly GW is embracing a concept of "things change".

Primaris are an awful lore creation that a lot of people don't like, but that's another debate

The rubric is already set in stone in what it did, if you did not have significant psyker abilities, you got turned to dust and locked into your armor, there is nothing left to expand on, machines don't have psyker abilities but don't have anything turned to dust. And furthermore any time GW touches lore they screw it up. Infact the t sons are a good example. In actuality, all the rubric sorcerers should not have the all is dust rule, or they should but not be able to cast smite. Same with the scarab occult none of them should have been rubriced either because they had psyker abilities. Also the exaulted sorcerers should not have any mutations but gw gave them mutations any way because they don't read or follow their own lore.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Primaris are an awful lore creation that a lot of people don't like, but that's another debate

The rubric is already set in stone in what it did, if you did not have significant psyker abilities, you got turned to dust and locked into your armor, there is nothing left to expand on, machines don't have psyker abilities but don't have anything turned to dust. And furthermore any time GW touches lore they screw it up. Infact the t sons are a good example. In actuality, all the rubric sorcerers should not have the all is dust rule, or they should but not be able to cast smite. Same with the scarab occult none of them should have been rubriced either because they had psyker abilities. Also the exaulted sorcerers should not have any mutations but gw gave them mutations any way because they don't read or follow their own lore.

I hear you, but you also have to admit that given the currently fluid state of 40k lore that the idea of strapping a bunch of Rubric marines together into a giant war machine is not the most far-fetched extrapolation of the process.

It already exists, it's the silver tower, but it's not rubrics it's any scorccers, because it's a tzeentch thing not a t sons thing.

Personally I don't think breaking lore continuity just for changes sake, or rule of cool, is a good idea, because then it just shows the lore is total BS.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

Thats the problem. "What would you give them? What would you give sisters of battle, or Genestealer Cultists, or Harlequinns, or Space Marines?" Nobody but GW can answer that. Just look at Death Guard, 2 years ago I'm sure the answer would have been the same, "What would you give Death Guard? The only real iconic Death Guard unit is the Plague Marine, wich they already have"
But GW expanded them nonetheless.

So your answer is, give them a few more named characters and updated models, which we already have, would what, some Time sons upgrade sprews for vehicles?

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So your answer is, give them a few more named characters and updated models, which we already have, would what, some Time sons upgrade sprews for vehicles?

Death Guard has received one vehicle and two different demonic engines. Thousand Souns could have something similar. And it doesn't needs to be some Rubric-Vehicle. A Daemonic-Tzeentch vehicle is good enough, just like Tzaangors are Thousand Sons but aren't rubrics in any shape or form. Some daemonic vehicles for Thousand Sons, with some AoS Tzaangor units ported to 40k like Tzaangor Skyfires with magic sniper rifles or Tzaangor Shamans could really help Thousand Sons.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So your answer is, give them a few more named characters and updated models, which we already have, would what, some Time sons upgrade sprews for vehicles?

I doubt they'll give them anymore named characters, it's possible, but Magnus and Ahriman are the only real story characters that TS has. I suspect it would be more along the lines of fleshing out their available units to make them more functional as a standalone army.

There's also a ton of cool sculpts you could do playing with the visual style of TS and their army of soulless magical automatons. Just like they did with DG and their army of pus-spewing Daemonic warmachines.

Like I said man, I'm TOTALLY down with a silver tower super heavy that would be amazing as hell to be god honest. Could have it function as either a beamy killing thing

Or act like a transport monolith, and gives casting bonuses.

If they don't add any units to the Thousand Sons I don't know how they will justify a codex. Currently we only have 2 elites (scarabs and Dreadnought) and 1 fast attack (spawn). We don't have a whole bunch of HQ either only Daemon Prince, Exalted Sorcerer (not even in terminator armor) and basic Sorcerers, and of course Ahriman and Magnus. Realistically we probably need at least one more HQ choice, at least 2-3 more elites, and 2-3 more fast attack. That is before you even get to the heavy slot which now is just vehicles. Troops are ok though. Personally I hope they port over some of the Tanzzagor choices from AOS. It would be easy to repackage the Tanzzagor sorcerer with an auto pistol arm, and repackage some of the disc riding Tanzzagor units to have auto pistols, or warp flamers, or just let us use them as is. Also the ogre mage unit from AOS could be a cool elite or HQ unit. That would add at least one or two HQ or Elite characters, and one fast attack. So really other than that we need probably 2-4 more units to have a viable codex. But knowing GW's track record for Thousand Sons we probably won't get anything and have a bunch of crap stratagems and lose access to the Heretic powers and only have 6 crap-tacular Tzeentch powers.

However, just for fun I guess I will throw my wish list out there:
Terminator Exalted Sorcerer. HQ
Ogre Mage from AOS HQ
Tanzzagor Mage from AOS Elite
an actual TS Dreadnought model that is basically a Rubric Dreadnought (having all is dust etc.) Elite
Possessed (while TS would not be possessed I am sure that a TS army would attract tzeentch possessed) Elite
Tanzzagors on discs with warp flamers Fst
Rubrics on discs maybe with soulreapers? Fst
Some kind of Tzeentch daemon walker Fst
The Tzeentch flyer from Epic Flyer
Silver Tower LoW

I know am crazy thinking we would even get like one of these things, but the above would be cool and not require to much new models (three units basically already exist in AOS)

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So your answer is, give them a few more named characters and updated models, which we already have, would what, some Time sons upgrade sprews for vehicles?

I doubt they'll give them anymore named characters, it's possible, but Magnus and Ahriman are the only real story characters that TS has. I suspect it would be more along the lines of fleshing out their available units to make them more functional as a standalone army.

There's also a ton of cool sculpts you could do playing with the visual style of TS and their army of soulless magical automatons. Just like they did with DG and their army of pus-spewing Daemonic warmachines.

The way I look at it is Death guards weren't known for having Plague Surgeons, Talleymen, Filth Spewing Artillery guns or two more types of bloat flies. I don't see how it could be a stretch to have a rubrics armor or souls directly integrated into a machine for a tank or something equivalent to a Kastellan, a sorceror equivalent of the daemon counting character, a Thousand Son golem architect of some kind to be a automaton apothecary. They also don't have anything similar to a standard bearer.

 xeen wrote:

However, just for fun I guess I will throw my wish list out there:
Terminator Exalted Sorcerer. HQ
Ogre Mage from AOS HQ
Tanzzagor Mage from AOS Elite
an actual TS Dreadnought model that is basically a Rubric Dreadnought (having all is dust etc.) Elite
Possessed (while TS would not be possessed I am sure that a TS army would attract tzeentch possessed) Elite
Tanzzagors on discs with warp flamers Fst
Rubrics on discs maybe with soulreapers? Fst
Some kind of Tzeentch daemon walker Fst
The Tzeentch flyer from Epic Flyer
Silver Tower LoW

I know am crazy thinking we would even get like one of these things, but the above would be cool and not require to much new models (three units basically already exist in AOS)

To add onto this, the flying exalted sorcerer model can be made into an elite choice character so that box would be 1 walking exalted, 1 disc exalted, and 1 "new" elite slot character. I really do hope GW does something like this because it is something that would cost them almost no money (4 new data slates in a book) since the models are already made.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

If I'm not mistaken the same could have been said about the Death Guard and their Plague Marines, and yet they now have a fairly extensive line of models.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

A silver tower LoW model would be fricking awesome.

Table wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Thing is, what would you give them? the only real 'iconic' T sons unit is the rubric marines and their spell casters, which they already have. Everything else they get is already part of the existing chaos lists.

The only thing i could see them adding, and it would be not only for T sons, but tzeenztch daemons as a whole, is a silver tower model, that is a Lord of war, and like the size of the teserak vault.

A silver tower LoW model would be fricking awesome.

That's what I'm talking about!?! Make it like a big ass sob like tesseract vault big.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

It makes no sense if they don't ever expand or further develop the sorcerous technology involved in the creation of the Rubricae.

Prior to this edition we would have said that Primaris marines were impossible according to the lore, clearly GW is embracing a concept of "things change".

Thats the thing. There is no such thing as sorcerous technology that created the rubrics. The rubrics are products of pure sorcery and the only science behind them is the armor they inhabit and the bolters they use, and even the bolters and armor are augmented by sorcery to such a degree that its hard to call it technology. Rubrics are very different from demon engines.

Table wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

It makes no sense if they don't ever expand or further develop the sorcerous technology involved in the creation of the Rubricae.

Prior to this edition we would have said that Primaris marines were impossible according to the lore, clearly GW is embracing a concept of "things change".

Thats the thing. There is no such thing as sorcerous technology that created the rubrics. The rubrics are products of pure sorcery and the only science behind them is the armor they inhabit and the bolters they use, and even the bolters and armor are augmented by sorcery to such a degree that its hard to call it technology. Rubrics are very different from demon engines.

And why wouldn't one be able to put the souls of Marines in robots/Dreadnoughts/Constructs instead of power-armours or terminator-armours? Or just Daemonic-engines. Old school ones like Death Guard has, but Tzeentch ones.

It would also be great if they fleshed out the tzang range with the AoS models. No reason not to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Table wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

It makes no sense if they don't ever expand or further develop the sorcerous technology involved in the creation of the Rubricae.

Prior to this edition we would have said that Primaris marines were impossible according to the lore, clearly GW is embracing a concept of "things change".

Thats the thing. There is no such thing as sorcerous technology that created the rubrics. The rubrics are products of pure sorcery and the only science behind them is the armor they inhabit and the bolters they use, and even the bolters and armor are augmented by sorcery to such a degree that its hard to call it technology. Rubrics are very different from demon engines.

And why wouldn't one be able to put the souls of Marines in robots/Dreadnoughts/Constructs instead of power-armours or terminator-armours? Or just Daemonic-engines. Old school ones like Death Guard has, but Tzeentch ones.

Because the spell that created the rubrics was a one shot. It wasnt even a spell intended to do such. The rubrics are a unintended (intended by Tzeetchy) product, a mistake. No new rubrics are created. And the rubrics themselves are bound to the armor.
You would figure they would need to know how to recreate rubrics to keep the legion going but in no lore that I know have rubrics been created outside the original spell (i could be wrong). Now the dreads that were present at the spell would have become rubric dreads so there is room for that.

That's what I was trying to explain, there is no way to "put a rubric soul into something else" it's locked into what it's got. Which I suppose you could say some of the terminators got stuck with that? But even still as I said the problem with making new stuff is GW always screws up their own lore,. And the recent Tsons products prove that.

-rubrics being spell casters
-scarub occult being rubriced
-exaulted sorcerers getting mutations

All these broke t sons lore. That said I could possibly see a "rubriced" dread? But at that point, it would just be a dreadnaugt

 Backspacehacker wrote:
That's what I was trying to explain, there is no way to "put a rubric soul into something else" it's locked into what it's got. Which I suppose you could say some of the terminators got stuck with that? But even still as I said the problem with making new stuff is GW always screws up their own lore,. And the recent Tsons products prove that.

-rubrics being spell casters
-scarub occult being rubriced
-exaulted sorcerers getting mutations

All these broke t sons lore. That said I could possibly see a "rubriced" dread? But at that point, it would just be a dreadnaugt

Im 100% with you up to the scarab occult termies. There is no logical reason that the non psyker tsons would not have bonded with their Terminator armor. The rubric affected ALL non psyker Tsons. That includes termies and most likely dreads.

Table wrote:
It would also be great if they fleshed out the tzang range with the AoS models. No reason not to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

Table wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
But giving them "rubric" stuff does not make any sense. The rubric only effected the marines, not the machines they use.

It makes no sense if they don't ever expand or further develop the sorcerous technology involved in the creation of the Rubricae.

Prior to this edition we would have said that Primaris marines were impossible according to the lore, clearly GW is embracing a concept of "things change".

Thats the thing. There is no such thing as sorcerous technology that created the rubrics. The rubrics are products of pure sorcery and the only science behind them is the armor they inhabit and the bolters they use, and even the bolters and armor are augmented by sorcery to such a degree that its hard to call it technology. Rubrics are very different from demon engines.

And why wouldn't one be able to put the souls of Marines in robots/Dreadnoughts/Constructs instead of power-armours or terminator-armours? Or just Daemonic-engines. Old school ones like Death Guard has, but Tzeentch ones.

Because the spell that created the rubrics was a one shot. It wasnt even a spell intended to do such. The rubrics are a unintended (intended by Tzeetchy) product, a mistake. No new rubrics are created. And the rubrics themselves are bound to the armor.
You would figure they would need to know how to recreate rubrics to keep the legion going but in no lore that I know have rubrics been created outside the original spell (i could be wrong). Now the dreads that were present at the spell would have become rubric dreads so there is room for that.

Yes, thats incorrect. Theres new Rubric marines being created. Black Legion sorcererrs know lesser versions of the Ahriman's Rubric, that they use to create more Rubric Marines of the Black Legion. Rogue Thousand Sons or some Chaos Sorcererrs know too how to create more Rubric Marines, that they normally sell as bodyguards to Chaos Lords, etc...

And BlackSpaceHacker, about the Exalted Sorcererrs having mutations. A BL author answered that. The Rubric of Ahriman fixed the problem of Thousand Sons with mutations. But that doesn't mean Thousand Son's Sorcererrs can't get normal Tzeenchy/Chaosy mutations/gifts. Those are the ones the Aspiring Sorcerrers have, not degenerative mutations like the Thousand Sons originally had.