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Hey everyone, here's a -1850 point Blood Angel army list with a maneuverable but solid front line and a devestating strike force. Hope you enjoy and any advice would be very helpful.

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
-Sanguinor: Warmaster
-Lemartes


TROOPS
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ
-Index Sanguinary Priest1 with Chainsword & Bolt pistol + Jump Pack

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
-Index Sanguinary Priest2 with Chainsword & Bolt pistol + Jump Pack

ELITES
-Sanguinary Guard (8 men) + 6 Encarmine Swords + 2 Powerfists + 8 Angelus Boltgun
-Death Company (10 men) all with Chainsword and Bolt pistol
-Death Company (9 men) all with Chainsword and Bolt pistol

=1836pts

The plan is to have the scouts infiltrate to the middle of the map and secure it while being supported by the Preds. I want my reserves in first turn with the Sanguinor and Priest1 one supporting the Sanguinary Guard and going after the elite units, Lemartes with the larger Death Company Squad going after targets of importance and Priest2 with the smaller Death Company squads going after the support.

-Concern: I'm concerned about the staying power of my infantry, do you think three unmodified Scout squads will be enough to hold the line?
-Query 1: Should I have Priest1 be the Warmaster since I can then give him Veritas Vitae and an appropriate Warlord trait, I feel it gives me more flexibility at a greater risk of losing my warlord.
-Query 2: Should I have 3 smaller units of Death Company or 2 large units of Death Company, more survivability and hitting power while sacrificing flexibility.
-Query 4: Can you, and is there any benefit to having a chainsword and energy sword on the same Death Company model?

Thanks for all the amazing help, y'all are great

Admittedly I'm still feeling my way into 8th Edition, but it seems to me that your list doesn't work. If Primaris Marines can't ride in Razorbacks, how can they take them as Dedicated Transports? Also, my feeling is that Intercessors aren't well suited to BA. Primaris seem a better fit for DA.

I would in any case suggest you need some heavier armoured support than 3 Razorbacks.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't realize that Primaris can't take Razorbacks I guess two Preds with autocannon and las sponsons would work so I changed the list, and maybe swap the Pmarines for Scouts, since I can get three scouts squads with missile launchers for three squads of Pmarines. I'm just worried about their staying power, I need a solid back firing line to support my strike force. Any suggestions?

The benchmark of this army will be how it fares vs. AM (LRBT list), at least in my meta.
For this, I'd include another Pred with auto/las.

 wuestenfux wrote:
For this, I'd include another Pred with auto/las.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that more firepower is always a good thing, I'm just worried it will compromise my strike force. I did the math and if I take away the missile launchers from my three scouts and remove the smaller Dsquad I do have enough points to take a Predator. However it does weaken my scouts offensive capabilities. Which do you think is better?

Again, with the caveat that I'm not well versed in 8th Edition:

- smaller Death Company units were generally better, or they become a points sink. Plus, multiple DC squads are a pain to deal with
- 3 Preds seems like a good idea - strip them down to save points (no HKs or Stormbolters)
- surely your static units can be quite basic - it's your assault units that will win or lose battles

Others may have better advice though.

You have three preds in your batallion detachment, thats not necessary. Remove the preds from the batallion detachment, remove one HQ from your batallion, put that HQ unit and the three preds together, you now have a spearhead detachment +1CP. I dont like maxed out preds, i think they are to expensive. With twin lascans only you would have 174 points left which you could use for another detachment. 10 model DC is fine with me, you dont want to waste forlorn fury or descent of angels on small units.

The predator autocannon is an extremely nice weapon, I think. I personally think autolas preds are fine, even though they are a bit pricey.

p5freak wrote:
put that HQ unit and the three preds together, you now have a spearhead detachment +1CP.

I honestly did not think about that, thanks! I'll also think about what you said about having just turret preds, I'll put it up as Query3. Thanks.

-Query 3: What do you think would be a better Predator configuration? Autocannon vs. Lascannon and Sponsons vs. No Sponsons. Let me know what you think.

It would be a waste without sponsons.
I'd take autolas or 4las depending on the points you can spend.

 wuestenfux wrote:

-Query 3: What do you think would be a better Predator configuration? Autocannon vs. Lascannon and Sponsons vs. No Sponsons. Let me know what you think.

It would be a waste without sponsons.
I'd take autolas or 4las depending on the points you can spend.

Why is it wasted ? If the pred dies all four lascans are gone. Use the saved points for a devastator squad with lascannons. Or a twin lascannon razorback.

You can take Razorbacks with pretty much anything, the only requirement in detachments with access to dedicated transports is that you need one unit per transport. That unit does not have to be able to ride in the transport.

If you take a twin-las predator without sponsons you are essentially taking a razorback with an extra wound and no transport capacity for 20 extra points, not recommended.

sossen wrote:

If you take a twin-las predator without sponsons you are essentially taking a razorback with an extra wound and no transport capacity for 20 extra points, not recommended.

Thank you for your input and I have to agree with your point, Pred without sponsors is basically an expensive Razorback so I think I'll stick with the heavy support layout I have now. Unless someone can make a good argument in taking Razorback instead of Preds.

So everyone had their opinions on what works. Personally I love big blobs of DC. However two squads of 10 could be hard to keep going with just lamartes. What I would do is drop the 9 man and fill the 10 man up to 15. Then drop Lamartes and bring Astorath. The number one weakness to DC now is their leadership. After that you could drop one Sang Guard to a 7 man unit and use the extra points to bring a Sang Guard Ancient to still have 8 total. You could even make the Ancient your warmaster if you wanted to. The biggest reason for this is the stratagem “Forlorn Fury”. If you get first turn you could get a good first turn charge with both your DC and Sang Guard and of you put the banner of sacrifice on the Ancient your sang Guard would re roll hits/1s to wound and have a 5+++ and +1 str from the priests.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also put boltguns on your DC. Overall more attacks as you won’t be able to use the pistol in the first round of combat anyways. They would all have a total of 6 attacks (4 melee/2 ranged). I doubt that whatever they charge will live.

Just my 2 cents:

I plan to go with melee scouts to better take advantage of red thirst. I feel like they are slightly better than bolter scouts.

I like 2 big blobs of DC. Give them bolters and throw in some power fist. You can better take advantage of their strategems. Use the forlorn one to move before the game starts and deep strike the other and use the strat on them that lets you charge on 3D6. Makes getting a turn 1 charge off with 2 big blobs of DCa lot more reliable. I am looking at running maybe 2 sets of 15 like this.

If possible, I'd probably drop 1 priest for a captain with TH/SS, give him the special jump pack that lets him ignore over watch and make him a DC captain. Tons of options with this guy, especially if you keep him next to sanguinor or a sanguinary ancient for +1 attack. He's just flat out mean. I plan to use this guy a lot.

sossen wrote:
You can take Razorbacks with pretty much anything, the only requirement in detachments with access to dedicated transports is that you need one unit per transport. That unit does not have to be able to ride in the transport.

Yes, that does appear to be correct. Yet it flies in the face of common sense and even the term "Dedicated Transport", which strongly implies that the vehicle dedicated to a unit can actually transport it. It's also kind of lame to be taking transports for units that can't actually use them. Still, that seems to be the level of abstraction that now applies to army list building.

Default02 wrote:
You could even make the Ancient your warmaster if you wanted to.

Thanks for your suggestions Default02. I did the math and Astorath, SG Ancient, and a 15 man Death Company squad with 3 Power swords does work if I drop what you suggested. Although, I am worried about putting too many eggs in two, very noticeable targets (one is bright gold and the other is a horde of black) and I know Upon Wings of Fire will give them amazing maneuverability, without Lemartes I feel that it puts them to much at the whim of the charge dice gods. So any thoughts or suggestions on how I can use them would be fantastic. Also, how can the Ancient be the Warmaster if he is an elite choice?

ILegion, thank you for your suggestions as well. I just feel that a Sanguinary priest would offer more to the army than a super Captain, but I am very interested in hearing how that goes. Your idea of using the stratagems to assist the turn one charge is really good to ensure a devestating alpha strike, however I am concerned about using 4 command points in the first turn and not having enough of them for the rest of the game. But I guess Veritas Vitae will be useful then.

Well to begin with the warlord rule is states that “a model” is chosen and if that model has the “character “ rule then they can choose a trait. A lot of armies use elites and other non HQ characters as warlord because they just stay back or aren’t up in there like you want your captains or chaplains to be.

For the strategy that I use it’s oretty straightforward. If I get first turn I will deploy my DC on the field and keep Astorath in the sky. On turn 0 I will use forlorn fury and move my DC 13”-18” and then move them another 12”. This will get you to 25”- 30” move plus your charge range , so 27”- 42” . And don’t forget your command re rolls. So pretty much a first turn charge unless your opponent made a Congo line in the back board edge in which case you just wings of fire move them. As far as Astorath goes you just drop him as close to the DC as you can so they can still get the morale and re roll hits and can even try to charge him in.

After that drop your sang Guard and use the 3D6 stratagem.

2 units charging turn one.

So you deploy the DC and then move+Advance before the turn 1 .If your opponent start the game, you screwed lol. Bad idea
Its better to put them as reinforcement, i think.

You deploy DC as your last unit. Then you know if you go first or not. If you dont put them in orbit.

p5freak wrote:
You deploy DC as your last unit. Then you know if you go first or not. If you dont put them in orbit.

This is a good idea. Obvious but easy to forget.

p5freak wrote:
You deploy DC as your last unit. Then you know if you go first or not. If you dont put them in orbit.

Are you talking about using the Upon Wings of Fire stratagem?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I have an alternative list that I will field along with my original, just to see how the two work. Please let me know if you have any thoughts or recommendations. Thank you

BATTALION DETACHMENT
HQ
-Sanguinor
-Astorath


TROOPS
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles/Combat Knives
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles/Combat Knives
-Scout Squad (5 men) + 5 Bolt Rifles/Combat Knives

SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT
HQ
-Index Sanguinary Priest1 with Chainsword & Bolt pistol + Jump Pack

HEAVY SUPPORT
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons
-Predator + Autocannon + Lascannon Sponsons

VANGUARD DETACHMENT
HQ
-Index Sanguinary Priest2 with Chainsword & Bolt pistol + Jump Pack + Armory of Ball Veritas Vitae

ELITES
-Sanguinary Guard (7 men) + 5 Encarmine Swords + 2 Powerfists + 7 Angelus Boltgun
-Sanguinary Guard Ancient: Warlord + Encarmine Sword + Angelus Boltgun + Standard of Sacrifice + Warlord Trait?
-Death Company (15 men) + 12 Chainswords and Boltguns + 3 Powerswords and Chainswords

=1850pts

Minh wrote:
So you deploy the DC and then move+Advance before the turn 1 .If your opponent start the game, you screwed lol. Bad idea
Its better to put them as reinforcement, i think.

Now as I said in my post IF you get first turn. You will know before deployment if you are going first. If you aren’t going first then you use the typical strategy of keeping them in the sky and dropping them and going for a charge with the stratagem. Blood angels are super alpha strike and can do massive damage one turn 1 if you go first. If not you can still do a ton of damage but my not get two units into melee.

As far as you new list goes I like it. Once you get a game in or two post a report ! And for your warlord trait the artisan of war is always a good choice. You can put a fist or sword on him and he will do good. I have tried both and they both did good for me.

Dante999 wrote:


Are you talking about using the Upon Wings of Fire stratagem?

No, i dont. By the time you deploy your last unit you will know if you get first turn or not. If you have first turn you deploy them on the table and run them across the battlefield with forlorn fury. If you dont have first turn you deploy them in orbit, where they are safe from enemy fire. Of course you could still deploy them on the table and run them across the battlefield with forlorn fury if you dont have first turn. That would give your opponent the opportunity to wipe them out. But maybe you want to burn 2 CP and lose a 200 pt. unit. I dont know.

p5freak wrote:

Dante999 wrote:


Are you talking about using the Upon Wings of Fire stratagem?

No, i dont. By the time you deploy your last unit you will know if you get first turn or not. If you have first turn you deploy them on the table and run them across the battlefield with forlorn fury. If you dont have first turn you deploy them in orbit, where they are safe from enemy fire. Of course you could still deploy them on the table and run them across the battlefield with forlorn fury if you dont have first turn. That would give your opponent the opportunity to wipe them out. But maybe you want to burn 2 CP and lose a 200 pt. unit. I dont know.

How do you know if you have 1st Turn or not at that stage? All you know is if you are getting +1 to go 1st.

You will only know by the time it comes to using Forlorn Fury, but by then they are either on the table of in the sky.

About first turn:
The opponent need not tell you that now he/she deploys the last unit.
There are always poker faces out there.

The +1 to who goes first only applies to the missions in CA, the rule that the player who finished deploying first, has first turn has not changed for matched play. Of course, a TO or a house rule can change that.
What I mean is either my opponent is finished with deployment first, and I have at least DC still to deploy, or I deploy DC as my last unit. Either way, I know if I have first turn, or not. Unless of course my opponent seizes the initiative.

p5freak wrote:
The +1 to who goes first only applies to the missions in CA, the rule that the player who finished deploying first, has first turn has not changed for matched play. Of course, a TO or a house rule can change that.
What I mean is either my opponent is finished with deployment first, and I have at least DC still to deploy, or I deploy DC as my last unit. Either way, I know if I have first turn, or not. Unless of course my opponent seizes the initiative.

Suppose you have the DC left to deploy. Before this, the opponent deploys a unit. But he need not tell you that he's finished. Then you deploy your DC.
Not sure if this makes sense. But in tourneys you meet all kind of characters.

Holy crap that army is tiny. For that kind of points i could (and would) field over 100 small bugs and a few big bugs with my tyranids. How could you possibly deal with that?

Morkphoiz wrote:
Holy crap that army is tiny. For that kind of points i could (and would) field over 100 small bugs and a few big bugs with my tyranids. How could you possibly deal with that?

I have never played against Tyranids but with that Death Company Squad having 4 base attacks per model on the charge, that will take a sizable chunk out of your small bugs and the DC will stay there with Astorath. The guys in gold would go after your big bugs and with the character buffs they get I hope they would give them a hard time. And don't forget that they are being supported by three Preds who can help with the big bugs and the scouts, who can help with the small bugs. However the whole thing depends on that initial alpha strike, if you can deal with that, then I am completely screwed. I have to stress that I have never played Tyranids so for me this is entirely theoretical and would love to be proven wrong. We learn best from our failures after all.