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 Quickjager wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Grey Knight geneseed comes directly from Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard so keep that in mind.

No it doesn't.

As for Primaris Grey Knights, don't put that evil on us.

Draigo - Sons of Horus

Crowe - Emperor’s Children

Thawn - Death Guard

Voldus - Thousand Sons

Janus - World Eaters

Can I ask your source for this? It isn't in the current codex fluff that I've seen.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Then Superchicken turns up, feths your world........

Who is superchicken ?

Magnus. More broadly it could refer to any Lord of Change, being as they're giant bird things and "chicken" is a common diminutive nickname that can be applied to anything vaguely birdlike.

(e.x. Sydonian Dragoons: Robot Chicken Knights)

I used the term in what I believe common concensus refers to Aetos'Rau'Keres (apologies for the spelling) from IA:13.

 Primark G wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Grey Knight geneseed comes directly from Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard so keep that in mind.

No it doesn't.

As for Primaris Grey Knights, don't put that evil on us.

Draigo - Sons of Horus

Crowe - Emperor’s Children

Thawn - Death Guard

Voldus - Thousand Sons

Janus - World Eaters

Lol, no. This isn't supported in anyway.

From what I understand, it was a dozen loyalists of traitor legions that trained the first Grey Knights. Due to their experience with Chaos and Daemons. Not that they formed the basis of the Grey Knights. So the basis of the Grey Knights geneseed is still unknown.

One of the originals was a Dark Angle. He'd been standing watch on the damnation cache on Parodax (Sp?) when Abaddon invaded. The last I remember him being seen was chained up on the Vengful spirit, no arms or legs, in a room of blanks (one of which was surgically attached to his back.

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

The emperor is not a normal human. He is the original primarch is what he is.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

The emperor is not a normal human. He is the original primarch is what he is.

We going to bring source for that?

The Emperor spends so much time wrapped in illusion magic he could be a 2 foot tall man without a nose for all anyone nose.

pm713 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

The emperor is not a normal human. He is the original primarch is what he is.

We going to bring source for that?

The Emperor spends so much time wrapped in illusion magic he could be a 2 foot tall man without a nose for all anyone nose.

Well there nothing concrete on his origins - but the key here is that he is immortal and the size of a primarch - that's not a normal human being.

You mean he sometimes appears to be the size of a primarch...

Making supermarine versions of the previous supermarines would merely highlight how STUPID from a fluff perspective the primaris marine line is.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Making supermarine versions of the previous supermarines would merely highlight how STUPID from a fluff perspective the primaris marine line is.

True. On the other hand not doing so makes the previous supermarines feel redundant.

The easiest answer for what the emperor looks like is that he underwent some form of transformation at some point (probably DAoT stuff) and thus was more human proportioned in the past. If he has DAoT levels of gene engineering that might explain why the primarchs seem to be based off of him.

Back on topic, Grey knights will probably require new sculpts since their armor is so distinctive and GW didn't want to half ass it. So we can expect them later in the edition, the same probably goes for deathwatch.

the emperor used psionics to be "all things to all people" Master of Mankind describes a Sister of silence looking at him and simply seeing a "tired looking man"

BrianDavion wrote:
the emperor used psionics to be "all things to all people" Master of Mankind describes a Sister of silence looking at him and simply seeing a "tired looking man"

Does that mean Eldar see a useless old man?

BrianDavion wrote:
the emperor used psionics to be "all things to all people" Master of Mankind describes a Sister of silence looking at him and simply seeing a "tired looking man"

One of my favourite headcanons validated!

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the emperor used psionics to be "all things to all people" Master of Mankind describes a Sister of silence looking at him and simply seeing a "tired looking man"

Does that mean Eldar see a useless old man?

no because the elder aren't blanks. the elder may be a psykic race, but your average elder is a candle to the emperor's super nova. to use a light source comparison

pm713 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

The emperor is not a normal human. He is the original primarch is what he is.

We going to bring source for that?

The Emperor spends so much time wrapped in illusion magic he could be a 2 foot tall man without a nose for all anyone nose.

Hatachi wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Arent All space marines geneseed from the emperors geneseed through the primarcs geneseed?

Emperor has no geneseed. He's not a Space Marine, but a normal human (if with a knack for psychic shenanigangs). His only seed is the old-fashioned one, producing off-spring one women at a time.

The emperor is not a normal human. He is the original primarch is what he is.

We going to bring source for that?

The Emperor spends so much time wrapped in illusion magic he could be a 2 foot tall man without a nose for all anyone nose.

This...... this just made my day, and I didn't even know I needed it. Have an exalt my friend and may the emperor's light keep your path lit before you

 Crimson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the emperor used psionics to be "all things to all people" Master of Mankind describes a Sister of silence looking at him and simply seeing a "tired looking man"

One of my favourite headcanons validated!

Magnus does the same thing in First Heretic, he's psychic power is so raw when Lorgar is looking at him his image is constantly changing. As stated above the Emperor appears different to everyone who sees him.

Well, seeing as PM are still new and GK require a lot to be one. I imagine they haven't made it to the interview stage of the pledge drive.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
There are no Primaris Grey Knights. I wonder why Rowboat didn't give us any "neo-marines"?

Is this just another part of the GW conspiracy to destroy GKs or are they too suceptible to the influences of Chaos (either the Primaris or GW) or do you think that there is some other (non-model) reason?

My guess is that GW either just hasn't gotten around to the sculpts, or hasn't decided how they want to proceed with GK's.

Personally, I'd really like them to push the Terminator aspect more. That used to be their schtick, though we have no Primaris Terminators either....

I'd rather they are folded into a demon hunter codex again instead of being a standalone army.
GW's decision to make the GKs into an independent army when they are supposed to be extremely rare and specialized was stupid lore wise and was an obvious marketing ploy.

GW haven't redesigned the Grey Knight kits is the long and short of it. They'll get capri pants-length power armour sooner or later.

phillv85 wrote:
Aren't GK descended from the emperor's geneseed? I guess Cawl didn't have access to it.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
yea, my guess is cawl does not have their geneseed. from a model perspective I expect them to get there but as their equipment is all so different they will be whole new sprues or possibly the basic units with upgrade chapter specific sprues.

If the GKs tithe gene-seed, he would have access to it. I mean, he made Primaris Marines from all Legions and the Imperium ain't got Alpharius on cold storage.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
According to fluff GKs started from some 8 Marines of unspecified chapters and some and 4 lords and administrators "possessed of inquisitve nature and unyiiding strength of mind."

 Primark G wrote:
Grey Knight geneseed comes directly from Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard so keep that in mind.

No, they're not. They're based on the Emperor's gene-seed. Many of the first Grey Knights may have come from the Knights Errant, but they have their own gene-seed.

 Fafnir wrote:
Old fluff is that they allegedly used the Emperor's geneseed. New fluff is that they allegedly use Magnus'.

Do you have a source for that? I'm curious, not doubting.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Because neither Rowboat or Carl are aware they exist. There is good reason for that. Only Big E and Malcador know/knew about them respectively and for good reason.

So Mr Imperium, why do you have a highly secretive and elite standing force of super-Astartes to combat something which doesn't exist?

Then Superchicken turns up, feths your world........

They know about them, as per the Gathering Storm.

ScarVet101 wrote:
One of the originals was a Dark Angle. He'd been standing watch on the damnation cache on Parodax (Sp?) when Abaddon invaded. The last I remember him being seen was chained up on the Vengful spirit, no arms or legs, in a room of blanks (one of which was surgically attached to his back.

Epimetheus, but he had some weird gene-seed if I remember correctly. His progenoids were replaced with Grey Knight progenoids.

 Primark G wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Grey Knight geneseed comes directly from Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard so keep that in mind.

No it doesn't.

As for Primaris Grey Knights, don't put that evil on us.

Draigo - Sons of Horus

Crowe - Emperor’s Children

Thawn - Death Guard

Voldus - Thousand Sons

Janus - World Eaters

Hahahaha, what? I would love to see your source for that. Janus is actually Revuel Arvida.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Revuel_Arvida

GK, ironically, are the one marine faction that would benefit the absolute most from the ability to bring primaris.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

Is this just another part of the GW conspiracy to destroy GKs

Whoa, whoa, really? Do you have anything to back that up?
It honestly most likely has something to do with the secrecy of the GKs, or perhaps there’s a shortage of Primaris psykers. No grand conspiracy.

It might end up being revealed the Grey Knight Paladins and therefore all of the GK leadership already are Primaris, and have been for centuries. Much smaller retcon.

SJ

 Fafnir wrote:
Old fluff is that they allegedly used the Emperor's geneseed. New fluff is that they allegedly use Magnus'.

The original grand masters came from just-about-everywhere (as noted, Arvida/Janus was a thousand son) but to date we don't know what the bulk gene-seed used for the chapter was because it wasn't taken from them.

Given that the original astartes gene-tech is 'out there' again in 30k following deliverence lost, it's not impossible that there might be a 'custom' 21st gene-seed strain for them which Cawl doesn't have.

Although at the same time, dude apparently had access to freakin' Custodes augment tech, so what the hey.

There're enough fluff loose ends to be able to shoehorn Primaris GK into the faction sooner or later. But this isn't what will drive their eventual inclusion. Primaris Marines are 100% GW's attempt to correct the IP disaster that is their game and pick up the ball they dropped with the Chapter House fiasco. Primaris Marines are here because GW can copyright them. They can't copyright Space Marines. I doubt they can copyright Grey Knights either (any more than they could copyright Black Knights or White Knights). Primaris WILL phase out and replace regular SM in the next few years. And when GW gets around to redoing the GK sculpts (which will be 100% dependant on how popular the line is and whether they think they can shift new models better) the GK WILL get the Primaris treatment and whatever hack-job fluff justification is needed to make it happen (oh look Alpharius did in fact found the GK and give them the secret geneseed tech they stole off the RG afterall! How convenient!).

It's quite clear GW is making their fluff fit their model sales requirements. Understandable too. GK aren't somehow exempt form this, they're just too niche for it to have been worth the time to do yet. GW is probably working at a good year ahead of release. They were working on the Primaris and DG models a year before 8th dropped, and they've been working on other stuff too. Within that this massive production cycle there was likely no room to make bespoke GK Primaris. The best we got are the recent BA/DA/UM upgrade sprues sold in their specific box kits. So we're not yet at the point where GW can sell bespoke chapter Primaris. GK just arne'ta priority for them. They prob got their codex early because it was easy, they just had to update some rules and throw it out there. That their weak show that GW didn't ut any thought or effort into it, as they did SM/Chaos/DG. Because there was nothing to really work with (no new models to spice things up).

GW were right when they said they were a model company first and a gaming company second - all their decision revolve around the models and how they can make their money off them. GK will get Primaris when GW have the space in their schedule to work on unique models for them, which will be based off how popular they are and how many current models they sell. It might take several years and their hand might be forced when GW finally flips the switch to all 100% Primaris and stops supporting the old ranges entirely.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
There are no Primaris Grey Knights. I wonder why Rowboat didn't give us any "neo-marines"?

Is this just another part of the GW conspiracy to destroy GKs or are they too suceptible to the influences of Chaos (either the Primaris or GW) or do you think that there is some other (non-model) reason?

I think it's in part from the fluff, GK are all psychers, and Primaris, are not psychic. But I don't see why they couldn't have Primarus as support troops...? Not psychic, but "grey knight" by keyword.