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Yeah, there is some confusion on this topic but I would not come to the LVO assuming I could use Daemon strats on anything other than units that were Daemon Faction units.
I would assume if I was a Daemon player that a Daemon FAQ would be coming out quickly on the heels of the Daemon book as has been the case with other Cdoex releases. We will look to them to answer these questions but no, I would not plan on deep-striking (or any other similar uses of stratagems) Magnus, Mortarion, the Lord of Skulls, etc. with the Daemon codex. Again, we will look to GW for official answers but as friendly advice, that would be what I would say to anyone thinking about bringing that to the LVO.
The Frontline Gaming guys know whats in the pipeline, and they have hinted before when NOT to do something, and shortly after an FAQ came out nerfing whatever thing they were hinting at not to do. So this changes pretty much everything about the interaction between the Daemons Codex and CSM Daemons. We'll have to wait two weeks before it's official, but since Reece is saying to not do it, we can pretty safely assume it will be nerfed.
Until the FAQ comes out you have a somewhat strong case for doing it, but I wouldn't make any purchasing decisions around it until the FAQ drops.
Yep, looks like the ITC guys may have bluntly explained what deep striking <Daemon> lords of war meant for the competitive scene. Or the rules guys at GW knew about it in advance and just didn't tell the Web/Warhammer TV community.
Curious to see what the resulting FAQ is... Tyranid/GSC level NOPE or more nuanced.
mikesorensonxx wrote: Just got the codex and realized im not going to be able to run a mono khorne legion unless I buy a ton of bloodletters, which is just boring. But I do want the reroll charge khorne demon loci. So here's my plan, run a main detachment with all my demons from different factions to get more command points. Then take a supreme command detachment with just khorne, tzeentch or nurgle characters (or one of each). Since all the characters are from the same god, they all get the loci and would affect all the demons from the main detachment belonging to the same god. The only downside is the characters from the main detachment wouldn't get the loci. I believe that should work, yes?
I'm afraid I don't understand or see how this works at all.
What he's saying is have a mono khorne Supreme command with a chaos undivided main detachment.
The mono khorne characters (Which would be all of the things in the detachment) will get the locus which effects khorne units, regardless if their in the detachment or not. They will be riding shotgun with the main detachment, which gives those CP's he wants
Long story short. He is running two detachments, one mono and one multi coloured
Yeah, there is some confusion on this topic but I would not come to the LVO assuming I could use Daemon strats on anything other than units that were Daemon Faction units.
I would assume if I was a Daemon player that a Daemon FAQ would be coming out quickly on the heels of the Daemon book as has been the case with other Cdoex releases. We will look to them to answer these questions but no, I would not plan on deep-striking (or any other similar uses of stratagems) Magnus, Mortarion, the Lord of Skulls, etc. with the Daemon codex. Again, we will look to GW for official answers but as friendly advice, that would be what I would say to anyone thinking about bringing that to the LVO.
The Frontline Gaming guys know whats in the pipeline, and they have hinted before when NOT to do something, and shortly after an FAQ came out nerfing whatever thing they were hinting at not to do. So this changes pretty much everything about the interaction between the Daemons Codex and CSM Daemons. We'll have to wait two weeks before it's official, but since Reece is saying to not do it, we can pretty safely assume it will be nerfed.
Until the FAQ comes out you have a somewhat strong case for doing it, but I wouldn't make any purchasing decisions around it until the FAQ drops.
Nice to know that frontline gaming drops these things before they are officially announced.
Also, people trying to abuse this system cause of trying to kung fu their way through these rules really show that they don't play the game for fun. Having a WAAC attitude just really makes you look like that guy. And trust me, YOU DONT WANT TO BE THAT GUY
dan2026 wrote:Also, people trying to abuse this system cause of trying to kung fu their way through these rules really show that they don't play the game for fun. Having a WAAC attitude just really makes you look like that guy. And trust me, YOU DONT WANT TO BE THAT GUY
I wouldn't go that far. Who wouldn't want to deep strike a Lord of War? I was thinking smaller, like Deep Striking CSM Juggerlords or Blood Slaughterers. The possibilities were endless. Oh well.
Nice to know that frontline gaming drops these things before they are officially announced.
Also, people trying to abuse this system cause of trying to kung fu their way through these rules really show that they don't play the game for fun. Having a WAAC attitude just really makes you look like that guy. And trust me, YOU DONT WANT TO BE THAT GUY
They are about to host the 512 player LVO and the Daemon FAQ will drop before noon on the 23rd dead center of the tournament. The “I can’t tell you what I can’t tell you, but I can tell you this is a bad idea” is a pretty stand up way to prevent a lousy experience for some tournament goers.
As for the WAAC aspect - tournament play was TFG’s Nurgles garden of WAAC when I was into the scene. I doubt it has changed in the intervening decade plus.
I would not be too quick to buy into FLG pronouncements about future developments in the game. Their comments about 8th edition Orks echo through my head.
Sure, ITC may forbid deep striking Lords of War. But interpretations about Strategems have been pretty clear, the rules for how they apply are stated in the Stratagem. RAW, as long as a unit has keyword Daemon, Denizens of the Warp should apply.
I did watch a game today where someone deep struck Magnus, Mortarion, and 30 Bloodletters, using all their command points before the first turn. An Imperial Soup list did prevail, it's not impossible to beat the worst scenarios people are imagining.
mikesorensonxx wrote: Just got the codex and realized im not going to be able to run a mono khorne legion unless I buy a ton of bloodletters, which is just boring. But I do want the reroll charge khorne demon loci. So here's my plan, run a main detachment with all my demons from different factions to get more command points. Then take a supreme command detachment with just khorne, tzeentch or nurgle characters (or one of each). Since all the characters are from the same god, they all get the loci and would affect all the demons from the main detachment belonging to the same god. The only downside is the characters from the main detachment wouldn't get the loci. I believe that should work, yes?
I'm afraid I don't understand or see how this works at all.
What exactly don't you get? to get lots of command points you need troops. If you don't want to do gobs of 1 demon type (ie, bloodletter only troop for khorne) that means a mixed detachment from the different gods for variety. But to get the loci aura of each god (ie, khorne is locus of rage = reroll charges) Your detachment needs to be all one god and the characters in that detachment gain the loci aura. By taking a supreme command detachment with only khorne characters, that detachment is all khorne so all those characters gain the loci aura, which will affect all the khorne demon units from the main mixed detachment. If you still don't understand I suggest reading pg 124,125 of the codex
techsoldaten wrote: I would not be too quick to buy into FLG pronouncements about future developments in the game. Their comments about 8th edition Orks echo through my head.
Sure, ITC may forbid deep striking Lords of War. But interpretations about Strategems have been pretty clear, the rules for how they apply are stated in the Stratagem. RAW, as long as a unit has keyword Daemon, Denizens of the Warp should apply.
I did watch a game today where someone deep struck Magnus, Mortarion, and 30 Bloodletters, using all their command points before the first turn. An Imperial Soup list did prevail, it's not impossible to beat the worst scenarios people are imagining.
FLG seems to have some bias when it comes to balance. All the pre-FAQIG insanity was fine to them, but CSM was too strong. They're not complaining about Imperial soup assassins and a <100pt IG detachment that gives you a gak ton command points or even ambushing Baneblades. The list goes on, but when Chaos gets to deepstrike their LoW it's too much.
Hell, the Alpha Legion Slaanesh Terminator deepstrike is still better then deepstriking a Lord of Skulls or any Primarch. Why not deal with existing issues before taking down the new toys?
I'm still not sold on the whole FLG knowing what the FAQ will be: every GW official I've seen (FLGS, warhammerTV, Facebook) has all made comments about how awesome it will be to deep strike Primarchs and not one of them has hinted at the FAQ banning such things. Not saying that sets it in stone but it certainly adds ambiguity to FLG claims.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
mrhappyface wrote: I'm still not sold on the whole FLG knowing what the FAQ will be: every GW official I've seen (FLGS, warhammerTV, Facebook) has all made comments about how awesome it will be to deep strike Primarchs and not one of them has hinted at the FAQ banning such things. Not saying that sets it in stone but it certainly adds ambiguity to FLG claims.
Totally agree here and i can't really understand watching the FLG last video all the hype mentioning all the time about faction daemons this and faction daemons that. Seriously, if you are familiar with the game at this point and the power of some armies it would be a no brainer answer that DS Primarchs isn't OP. Also apart from playtesting and writing some articles are these guys the GW Heralds? Should we officially wait for their words about the FAQs? Really?
I think GWs ruling on this will be more from a narrative perspective than a balance one. As people have stated there are better options to warp in than the brothers grim anyways. From a narrative perspective it makes little sense for Morty or Magnus to just appear out of thin air and start chopping gak in half. It doesn't give them the gravitas and grandeur that daemon primarchs should have. They should, in my humble opinion at least, fly up the board leading their forces and taking shots from all over. That is how I envisage both when I imagine the game playing out.
An Actual Englishman wrote: I think GWs ruling on this will be more from a narrative perspective than a balance one. As people have stated there are better options to warp in than the brothers grim anyways. From a narrative perspective it makes little sense for Morty or Magnus to just appear out of thin air and start chopping gak in half. It doesn't give them the gravitas and grandeur that daemon primarchs should have. They should, in my humble opinion at least, fly up the board leading their forces and taking shots from all over. That is how I envisage both when I imagine the game playing out.
Sorry but that's rubbish. I don't know about Morty but Magnus has definitely arrived on the battlefield via appearing out of thin air. There is no narrative reason to ban this.
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
FLG are bias Imperium fanboys. They are nothing more that glorified TO's. The fact that a lot of smaller tournaments use their rules is for sake of ease. They have already come across as if regardless of what GW states they will most likely rule it as banned for their events. [MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/14 20:52:39
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....
"I am the punishment of God, had you not committed great sin, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you"
GW have said before that Faction keywords only apply during army creation, and are no different to other keywords during the game. This is in the Director's Commentary, and even uses a Herald's aura working on Possessed as an example.
Also, the two summoning strats specifically state Chaos characters rather than Daemon ones, indicitive that Daemon strats are not intended solely for daemon use.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/14 18:51:41
Does FLG seem to have some insight into what GW will do based on their relationship? They certainly do. Does that mean they know exactly what they will do? Certainly not.
FLG is either right or wrong. No need to whing about it or them. Either GW will leave it the way it is or will put out a Tyranids -type Errata that prevents Chaos Daemons stratagems from working on non-Daemon Faction units.
My Chaos Space Marines showcase so far: 
Let a billion souls burn in death than for one soul to bend knee to a false Emperor.....