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 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day

Kinda weird the Codex release went from mid/late feb to late Januaury

The release is in two weeks, so it's gonna be early February.

God its already the 21st!!!

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
If preorders are next Saturday I’d expect an article per day from Warhammer community and a codex review from winters seo on preorder day

Kinda weird the Codex release went from mid/late feb to late Januaury

Codex releases have been approximately once a fortnight since 8th dropped. The exception was November, where they released Necromunda in one of the slots instead.

Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.

They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.

Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.

Magnus went up by 30 points.

When you say BS/WS 3, is that a 3+, or the equivalent of last editions BS 3, meaning a 4+?

Because hitting on a 2+ with a shaman is amazing.

If they’re 2w t5 I’m going to have to start making some dark mechanicum style conversions

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow

Magnus went up by 30 points.

Good, good, keep the Primarch's nerfs coming, Guilliman and Mortarion next.

Any other special rule for Skyfires? Or other weapons options? They seem a bit pricey for now.

Will Magnus even be worth running at 445 points without his invuln reroll? That's so many points to just get deleted turn one.

If the enemy is deleting your Primarchs he isn't deleting the rest of your army. Does it matter if those 445 are in the form of a Primarch or in 5-6 tanks? If your enemy go first you are gonna lose a good bunch of your army. 445 points aren't that many points to lose agaisn't a alpha strike army's first turn.

Or you don't lose him, and in the case of Mortarion/Magnus he can run amock with a offensive Power that not many things have in this edition. Or even better. You go first.

(And I know, I know, 445 points buy you 111 wounds of IG infantry, etc, etc... two wrongs don't make one right)

I think Ahriman might be a more competitive pick if Magnus can't walk around virtually immune to damage. Without that, Magnus runs the risk of dropping too far down his wound chart to impress, and he is too expensive to just toss as a fire magnet, the greater daemon problem. But it remains to be seen what other tricks he will have to replace his old ones.

xxhikaru123 - Can you please tell us if the deep strike stratagem can be used with Magnus? Or maybe the relic that lets you come off the field and deep strike back in? Thank you

SilverAlien wrote:
When you say BS/WS 3, is that a 3+, or the equivalent of last editions BS 3, meaning a 4+?

Because hitting on a 2+ with a shaman is amazing.

Obviously it is the new style so 3+ to hit.

Damage one? that is seriously unimpressive with the skyfires.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.

They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.

Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.

Magnus went up by 30 points.

Updated text.

51 is for a unit of 3

Hikaru, can you tell us what the temporal manipulation psychic power does? Thank you for the spoilers, between this and your work on the daemons codex you've done chaos players a great service.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.

They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.

Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.

Magnus went up by 30 points.

I was about to say 'ouch' at 51 points a model, but when I clicked quote, the updated message popped up and that made me happy.

Sucks about Magnus but Mortarion is 470 IIRC, so he is still less points than his gross brother.

The Skyfires should be awesome with a Shaman. I'm definitely considering putting some of those in my army now (well, more than I was before).

Moar please

Skyfires look to be a competent and very fast objetive graver that can both defend themselves in meele and ranged combat (With bows of course, the lances and the bolt pistol+CS will be more a glass-cannon meele unit)

the skyfires are incredible but are very very glassy.
With Shaman aura, 2+ to hit (reroll 1s near a DP), auto wound on a 5+ (with shaman). 24" range, 36" inch effective (12" fly).

Pretty much auto-include for me in some numbers but not too many.

I got that recent AOS Tzeentch battleforce, so I'm happy with the new additions to Thousand Sons. I might just proxy the Kairic Acolytes as more melee Tzaangors to make the battleforce fully dual-system.

Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.

SilverAlien wrote:
Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.

Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.

6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them

xxhikaru123 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.

Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.

6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them

Still though, they sound fairly absurd as far as firepower goes. Grab a large unit and have the shaman use some defensive buffs to keep them alive and you have a scary unit.

SilverAlien wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Do we know what weapon type the bows are? I can only assume heavy, otherwise the mobility and firepower sound almost absurd.

Assault , so you can even stand at 37" , shoot at 4+ after advancing (minimally 1") &/or hit on 3+ with a shaman, so why not.

6 wounds 5++. a sneeze will kill them

Still though, they sound fairly absurd as far as firepower goes. Grab a large unit and have the shaman use some defensive buffs to keep them alive and you have a scary unit.

First, AoS give us the Bloodletterbomb that we have now in 40k... oh boy BEWARE THE SKYFIRES SPAM! (To be honest both of those builds where absurdly OP in AoS because they spammed Mortal Wounds. They don't do that in w40k and that Aun'va for that)

So you roll to hit and on a 5-6 with shaman they wound automatically? But at only assault 1 and damage 1 it doesn’t seem enough to bring down big targets. Or am I missing something

demontalons wrote:
So you roll to hit and on a 5-6 with shaman they wound automatically? But at only assault 1 and damage 1 it doesn’t seem enough to bring down big targets. Or am I missing something

He said they where Assault 2. 17ppm for a 2W, 5++ , WS/BS +3/+3, 12" (or 14"?)M model with 3A (2 tzaangor+1 disc) and Assault 2 S5 -1AP 1D weapons that auto wound on 6+ rolls doesn't sound bad.
And even better with all the synergies with Tzaangor Shamans and other stratagems/buffs in the codex. The +1 doesn't only makes them hit on 2+, it makes them auto wound on 5 and 6 as Hikaru123 said.

Vespids are a very good unit in 8th, and Tzaangors Skyfires are basically MUCH better Vespids for only 2-3ppm more.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.

They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.

Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.

Magnus went up by 30 points.

First up, thank you for this information

If I'm not mistaken, the bows do increased damage when they trigger that auto-wound mechanic - something like D3 or 3 Damage - per what others have gleaned from the stream. Any idea if that's true?

51 per model did sound ludicrous, but 17 per model with the bows is much nicer. You're paying 10 points over a regular Tzaangor for +1T, +1W, similar melee capabilities (no rend but extra attack), double the mobility and decent to great shooting depending on how the special rule for the bows actually works. Not bad at all.

Also, we now know that 9 Enlightened with bows are 153 points, and that Magnus is now 445 points. Per Battlescribe, the Thousand Sons list minus the points of the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast and including everything else that we now know about the Enlightened (as well as the Magnus increase) is 1775 points. That now leaves 225 points for the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast. I know I keep beating a dead horse, but I'm still betting on points reductions for our other units

Also, it's nice to see that the Shaman and "Skyfires" function very similarly to how they do in AoS, down to the +1 to-hit aura and the bows "auto-wounding" on 5s and 6s near the Shaman. For someone like me that plays both 40K and AoS regularly, the similarity of these mechanics make the army that much more enticing for cross-compatibility. Awesome stuff!

Caederes wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Skyfires are 2W. 2 S5 -1 1 dmg guns.
BS/WS3 5++
Shaman gives them +1 to hit.
51 points with greatbow FOR 3.

They have 3 options:
Chainsword & Bolt Pistol (?)
Great Bow
and a spear, i forgot exact stats but it does 2 dmg on charge.

Disc do 1 attack , S4 0 1
Sergeant does 3 A, each Tzaangor 2A.
So a unit of 3 does 10A.

Magnus went up by 30 points.

First up, thank you for this information

If I'm not mistaken, the bows do increased damage when they trigger that auto-wound mechanic - something like D3 or 3 Damage - per what others have gleaned from the stream. Any idea if that's true?

51 per model did sound ludicrous, but 17 per model with the bows is much nicer. You're paying 10 points over a regular Tzaangor for +1T, +1W, similar melee capabilities (no rend but extra attack), over double the mobility and decent to great shooting depending on how the special rule for the bows actually works. Not bad at all.

Also, we now know that 9 Enlightened with bows are 153 points, and that Magnus is now 445 points. Per Battlescribe, the Thousand Sons list minus the points of the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast and including everything else that we now know about the Enlightened (as well as the Magnus increase) is 1775 points. That now leaves 225 points for the Tzaangor Shaman and Mutalith Vortex Beast. I know I keep beating a dead horse, but I'm still betting on points reductions for our other units

Also, it's nice to see that the Shaman and "Skyfires" function very similarly to how they do in AoS, down to the +1 to-hit aura and the bows "auto-wounding" on 5s and 6s near the Shaman. For someone like me that plays both 40K and AoS regularly, the similarity of these mechanics make the army that much more enticing for cross-compatibility. Awesome stuff!

Ask the rest who have seen me post on my reliability, who cares about listening hard on a stream?
Mutalith are about 150.
Shaman is 80-90, i forgot.

Vast majority of units did not get any point changes. Some weapons went down abit, some characters went up, all within 5 pt difference.
You should not have any net gain or lose of points using any of the current units.

xxhikaru123 wrote:
Ask the rest who have seen me post on my reliability, who cares about listening hard on a stream?
Mutalith are about 150.
Shaman is 80-90, i forgot.

Vast majority of units did not get any point changes. Some weapons went down abit, some characters went up, all within 5 pt difference.
You should not have any net gain or lose of points using any of the current units.

Sorry if it came across as questioning your reliability, that wasn't my intent; I was just curious about the bow special rule as others have said it sounded like the Skyfire bows do more damage when they trigger the auto-wound. Either way, it's no big deal on whether they do or not, they sound nasty as-is.

Hmm fair enough then, so it is a case of the Mutalith and Shaman being cheaper than I thought. A shame about the lack of points reductions, but I'm happy enough with what we get instead.

Thanks a bunch

Have there been any point changes to the rubric flamers? Have they done anything special with scarab occult power swords like they did with nurgle terms?

Right right birdmen on flying saucers very nice. I'll put them on the stack of anti infantry options that tzeentch gets with flamers horrors rubrics scarabs Screamers etc etc etc.

Xhikaru, everyone's favorite chaos associated leak person, can you tell us about the new codex and how it works with the psychic goodness?

Specifically:

-who gets to use what powers? We know we have 18, but are the tzeentch powers limited to only daemon princes?

-are the tzeentch powers exactly the same as in the daemon codex (i.e. if we take Flickering Flame it only can give +1 wound to Daemons) or can they be used to benefit thousand sons?

-what are the Thousand Sons powers we have not yet seen?

I'm super excited for my Thousand Sons to be back doing what made me fall in love with them in 7th: versatile, tactical mastery of psychic might!

demontalons wrote:
Have there been any point changes to the rubric flamers? Have they done anything special with scarab occult power swords like they did with nurgle terms?

+1 on this post, more info would be nice in this regard.