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For my first attempt at a 2000 point tournament-level list, I am including a Shadowsword with two twin HB sponsons in a Supreme Command detachment alongside a Cadian brigade. Initially, I just decided to make it Cadian as well. The upsides are that I can reroll 1s to hit with the main weapon whenever I want, assuming I have LOS, because range will never be an issue, and I can use a smaller unit + Overlapping Fields of Fire to boost BS to 3+, or even 2+ against Titanics. The downsides to having a Cadian Shadowsword are the potential of needing to move for LOS of getting 18 heavy bolter shots in range of a far table corner, but most importantly, by hanging back and remaining stationary, I essentially give up on using Crush Them! against select targets. I want to have this stratagem more available to me as it is situationally devastating, so I want to reconsider my choice of regiment. My logic for each regiment is as follows:

Good Regiments for Shadowsword:
Cadian: Can't make very good use of reroll 1s and CC simultaneously. Can stack CC capabilities with OFoF, however.

Valhallan: No shooting bonus at full strength, but is overall strong given the inevitable fire it will draw from the opponent, and a Techpriest I currently have in my list is that much more likely to bump an injured Shadowsword up to the next damage bracket.

Less Good (but not necessarily bad) Regiments for Shadowsword:
Catachan: Getting to reroll a single d3 on the big gun is something, I guess, but 3d3 is a lot less variable than 1d6 or 2d6.

Vostroyan: 42" heavy bolter shots. That's it.

Armageddon: A better save against heavy bolters and autocannons and stuff? If I do want to Crush Them!, I don't think there are all that many ap-1 CC weapons, either. Eh, pass.

Tallarn: Already gets to move and fire heavy weapons without penalty. Not much benefit in outflanking a 120" gun or shooting at -1 just to be d6" closer for a charge, as far as I'm aware.

Mordian: I suppose better overwatch on 18 HB shots, 2 lascannons and 3d3 big gun shots isn't too bad. Could really screw with assault armies, at the very least.

As you can see, I'm primarily divided between Cadian and Valhallan at this point, and because my Shadowsword is in a Supreme Command with non-<Regiment> HQs, switching won't mess with any of my other units. I'm interested in hearing thoughts on what would work best at the tournament level at which I intend to play. Thanks!

Superheavies can't have regiment doctrines, but can benefits from stratagems and buffs to regiment units that can affect vehicles or units. On that note, Catachan if Harker is near it, Cadian for Overlapping Fields of Fire Strat or Relic of Cadia, Vostroyan for First Born Pride Strat, or my Favorite Tallarn Ambush Strat.

Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments don't get regiment doctrines.

Supreme Command do.

Vaulsteiner wrote:
Superheavies can't have regiment doctrines, but can benefits from stratagems and buffs to regiment units that can affect vehicles or units. On that note, Catachan if Harker is near it, Cadian for Overlapping Fields of Fire Strat or Relic of Cadia, Vostroyan for First Born Pride Strat, or my Favorite Tallarn Ambush Strat.

Sorry, but thats just wrong. Its just the super heavy auxilliary detachments where this is true, outside of those (eg in a supreme comman detachment) you totally get them.

On topic though, Id probably go with valhallan. The cadian doctrine makes you immobile to fully profit from it, and making the shadowsword tougher is definitely worth it, considering its going to be a primary target.

The Vostroyan trait doesn't do much for the Shadowsword, but the Vostroyan Stratagem (Firstborn Pride) is arguably the biggest boost you can give it. Food for thought!

I would agree that using the Valhallan doctrine is best on its own, while the Vostroyan Stratagem is going to be extremely useful.

Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

Don't forget the Cadian Relic. Rerolling all hits and wounds against Morty/Magnus is tasty. Though you can get similar results by popping Vengeance For Cadia, the relic let's the rest of the gunline join in on the fun.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments don't get regiment doctrines.

Supreme Command do.

I feel like a right dumb a** but why don't the super heavy auxiliaries get the regiment doctrines?

fatbudda319 wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments don't get regiment doctrines.

Supreme Command do.

I feel like a right dumb a** but why don't the super heavy auxiliaries get the regiment doctrines?

The Codex explicitly excludes them.

Why it does that, and (for example) Codex Craftworlds doesn't have a similar rule for Wraithknights is anyone's guess.

 Asmodai wrote:

fatbudda319 wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments don't get regiment doctrines.

Supreme Command do.

I feel like a right dumb a** but why don't the super heavy auxiliaries get the regiment doctrines?

The Codex explicitly excludes them.

Why it does that, and (for example) Codex Craftworlds doesn't have a similar rule for Wraithknights is anyone's guess.

Ahh, that makes more sense, I don't play AM and was reading more out of curiosity haha.

xmbk wrote:
Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

What he said. 8th ed is about hitting first. With Tallarns, you can use their Ambush strategem and always hit first. Throw in a Trojan (although you can't outflank the Trojan too, but who cares it's fast, just advance it) for rerolling all failed hit rolls on the Shadowsword, and you have a titanic that will statistically destroy an imperial knight in 1 turn of shooting on average, and more. I used this in a tournament. It works, and it's devastating. I would max out the sponsons if you can though. Split fire does wonders. Even if you're opponent's biggest model is a predator, you can safely rely on the volcano cannon alone to remove it in one shot, fire the 30 HB shots at infantry, and wipe out another vehicle or 2 with the 4 lascannons. Heck.. throw a hunter killer missile on there for giggles. If you pick your targets well, and your opponent isn't spamming models with 4+ invul saves (like shining spears). This will likely deal a devastating blow they won't recover from.

For the rest of your army just use regular infantry squads or vets with plasma, and constantly move and advance them around the board while still firing away all their weapons. This will annoy your opponent to no end. Tallarns also make vehicle sponsons worthwhile again, so Russ commanders become very dangerous, and hellhounds with multi-melta sponsons become very good. Even Chimeras become a nuisance again with Tallarn without the penalty to hit for moving and shooting anymore.

fatbudda319 wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:

fatbudda319 wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Super Heavy Auxiliary detachments don't get regiment doctrines.

Supreme Command do.

I feel like a right dumb a** but why don't the super heavy auxiliaries get the regiment doctrines?

The Codex explicitly excludes them.

Why it does that, and (for example) Codex Craftworlds doesn't have a similar rule for Wraithknights is anyone's guess.

Ahh, that makes more sense, I don't play AM and was reading more out of curiosity haha.

Fair enough. But yeah, the codex specifically says they don't, but that's the only one. It doesn't say anything specific about supreme command or full-sized super heavy detachments, so they get doctrines.

 kadeton wrote:
The Vostroyan trait doesn't do much for the Shadowsword, but the Vostroyan Stratagem (Firstborn Pride) is arguably the biggest boost you can give it. Food for thought!

Yeah, but if you take tank commanders with Punishers alongside the Shadowsword in the Supreme Command Detachment Vostroyan doctrine is really, really good. Add the stratagem and watch things melt.

 chrispy1991 wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

What he said. 8th ed is about hitting first. With Tallarns, you can use their Ambush strategem and always hit first.

I see the logic in your reasoning, but does it still hold true when you've got to bring in the shadowsword in your deployment zone?

tag8833 wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

What he said. 8th ed is about hitting first. With Tallarns, you can use their Ambush strategem and always hit first.

I see the logic in your reasoning, but does it still hold true when you've got to bring in the shadowsword in your deployment zone?

Yes, because it protects the Shadowsword from being Alpha'd off the table.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 chrispy1991 wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

What he said. 8th ed is about hitting first. With Tallarns, you can use their Ambush strategem and always hit first.

I see the logic in your reasoning, but does it still hold true when you've got to bring in the shadowsword in your deployment zone?

Yes, because it protects the Shadowsword from being Alpha'd off the table.

*Checks range of volcano cannon*

Yes, it's fine to set up in your deployment zone.

Seriously though, I think this stratagem swings the decision far in favour of Tallarn. Sure, you could have a tank that doesn't mnind being damaged... or you could have a tank that is not damaged. It's not a particularly tough call, in my opinion!

Also, the stratagem still works on a tallarn shadowsword in a superheavy auxiliary detachment. It doesn't get its regimental trait (which is something about going fast, which it doesn't need to do) but it will still have the Tallarn keyword. So long as you've got a proper detachment of IG somewhere in your list to unlock the stratagems (which doesn't even have to be a tallarn detachment) you can use them on your shadowsword.

Just don't add sponsons with your tallarn shadowsword if you play against BCB or the like. He'll prevent you from deploying your tank.,

 chrispy1991 wrote:

xmbk wrote:
Tallarn is very strong. Outflank means you get to shoot before taking damage, meaning you win the battle of the big boys.

What he said. 8th ed is about hitting first. With Tallarns, you can use their Ambush strategem and always hit first. Throw in a Trojan (although you can't outflank the Trojan too, but who cares it's fast, just advance it) for rerolling all failed hit rolls on the Shadowsword, and you have a titanic that will statistically destroy an imperial knight in 1 turn of shooting on average, and more. I used this in a tournament. It works, and it's devastating. I would max out the sponsons if you can though. Split fire does wonders. Even if you're opponent's biggest model is a predator, you can safely rely on the volcano cannon alone to remove it in one shot, fire the 30 HB shots at infantry, and wipe out another vehicle or 2 with the 4 lascannons. Heck.. throw a hunter killer missile on there for giggles. If you pick your targets well, and your opponent isn't spamming models with 4+ invul saves (like shining spears). This will likely deal a devastating blow they won't recover from.

For the rest of your army just use regular infantry squads or vets with plasma, and constantly move and advance them around the board while still firing away all their weapons. This will annoy your opponent to no end. Tallarns also make vehicle sponsons worthwhile again, so Russ commanders become very dangerous, and hellhounds with multi-melta sponsons become very good. Even Chimeras become a nuisance again with Tallarn without the penalty to hit for moving and shooting anymore.

You just described the army I am building towards...

Tallarn Battalion

Company Commander
Tank Commander (Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons)

3 Infantry Squads

Mortar Squad
Leman Russ (Battle Cannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons)
Leman Russ Punisher (Gatling Cannon, 3xHeavy Bolters)

Tallarn Supreme Command

Company Commander
Primaris Psyker
Primaris Psyker
Shadowsword with 2 heavy bolter sponsons and 2 heavy flamer sponsons

Militarum Tempestus Battalion

2 Tempestor Primes

3 Scions squads - 2 with hot shot volley guns, 1 with plasma guns
1 Scion Command Squad with 4xPlasma

Taurox Prime with Gatling and hot shot volley guns

tneva82 wrote:
Just don't add sponsons with your tallarn shadowsword if you play against BCB or the like. He'll prevent you from deploying your tank.,

He shouldn't, because with the sponsons they're about 6.875 inches wide, which helps explain why they chose 7" for the stratagem instead of 6".

For the record, I vote Cadian. Probably a worse trait than Valhallan, but your support becomes much better from the Relic of Lost Cadia and Overlapping Fields of Fire.

+1 for Tallarn, all of the damage boosting doctrines are useless next to Ambush keeping it alive T1.